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Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?
- Thread starter PrivatePilot
- Start date
So, we have a refundable deposit on a 2017 Ioniq in the Montreal area at a big dealer. Going next weekend to check it out, and if it works out, probably drive it home.
I spoke to a salesman there yesterday about it and he was super helpful - well versed on selling to Ontarians. He said that there's a few ways to handle the tax situation, but they opt for the one that makes it easiest for his customers - you pay the QC taxes (HST) on the bill of sale (and finance if as part of the transaction to keep it all simple), and then they cut you a cheque on the spot for the exact amount of the taxes. Then THEY file for the refund from the government instead of the customer having to. You simply deposit the cheque and when we register the vehicle here in Ontario, you pay the taxes again using that money.
Sound easy, and I like that they not only are familiar with the process, but make it easy. There's a few other ways, including the split PST / HST method, but he says he's heard of confusion about it when customers get back to Ontario, and knowing how inept some people who work at Service Ontario are from past experiences, this doesn't surprise me, so I like the easy solution.
However, I am going in eyes wide open knowing the issues with nefarious used cars in Quebec. I've no reason to believe that EV's have become part of these issues yet (chop shops probably can't realize a profit after having to spend all the extra money involved in putting one back together) but I know what to look for.
On that topic, does anyone here have access to a CarFax (or comparable) account where they could run the VIN for me?
I spoke to a salesman there yesterday about it and he was super helpful - well versed on selling to Ontarians. He said that there's a few ways to handle the tax situation, but they opt for the one that makes it easiest for his customers - you pay the QC taxes (HST) on the bill of sale (and finance if as part of the transaction to keep it all simple), and then they cut you a cheque on the spot for the exact amount of the taxes. Then THEY file for the refund from the government instead of the customer having to. You simply deposit the cheque and when we register the vehicle here in Ontario, you pay the taxes again using that money.
Sound easy, and I like that they not only are familiar with the process, but make it easy. There's a few other ways, including the split PST / HST method, but he says he's heard of confusion about it when customers get back to Ontario, and knowing how inept some people who work at Service Ontario are from past experiences, this doesn't surprise me, so I like the easy solution.
However, I am going in eyes wide open knowing the issues with nefarious used cars in Quebec. I've no reason to believe that EV's have become part of these issues yet (chop shops probably can't realize a profit after having to spend all the extra money involved in putting one back together) but I know what to look for.
On that topic, does anyone here have access to a CarFax (or comparable) account where they could run the VIN for me?
Full EV. Wouldn’t go any other way now.
A little bit off topic...why is it that the QC region has so many cars at considerably better prices? I've been looking and the QC dealers are much lower than local...am I missing something or is the market that different?
Not sure but i know the laws there are very weak about tampering with mileage unreported damage etc. Anecdotally i have heard of pick up trucks leaving Ontario with 400000k and being sold in Quebec with 100000k.
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Known in Ontario as getting LooLoo'd
There’s certainly a lot of shenanigans when it comes to ICE vehicles in Quebec, for sure. I don’t think it is universally widespread as some would like to make everybody believe, but it would also be naïve to think it’s not a problem there either
Like I said, I am going in eyes wide open and looking for a clear paper trail of ownership and such before committing, and I know what to look for when it comes to vehicles that have either been hack job repaired, or have way more miles than the odometer shows.
With regards to the higher used EV market availability in Quebec versus Ontario, it comes down to the fact that they have very high fuel prices, exceptionally cheap electricity, and still have the government subsidies in place to the tune of $8K. That’s all a recipe for much higher rates of adoption there.
Like I said, I am going in eyes wide open and looking for a clear paper trail of ownership and such before committing, and I know what to look for when it comes to vehicles that have either been hack job repaired, or have way more miles than the odometer shows.
With regards to the higher used EV market availability in Quebec versus Ontario, it comes down to the fact that they have very high fuel prices, exceptionally cheap electricity, and still have the government subsidies in place to the tune of $8K. That’s all a recipe for much higher rates of adoption there.
blackcamaro
Well-known member
The dealer you have a deposit with should be able to provide you a link to the Carfax report especially with a deposit on the car. It would be weird if they didn’t.
In terms of the cars being cheaper in Quebec. The best answer I can give is there is generally a used car shortage in Ontario. Dealers here have a tougher time try to buy inventory then sell it. Since history searches (carproof, Carfax etc) have been in place, reporting mileage to the ministry for plate renewals, auction and service history all getting tied together there isn’t nearly as much funny business going on in Quebec as there was say 15-20 years ago.
I agree that the dealer should be providing me a Carfax on request, however further to my last reply above I’m just doing my own due diligence getting things as close to 100% sure as I can that everything is above board with this car in particular.
Like I said, it’s a big dealer and it has solid reviews and no discoverable content online from anybody who has had a bad experience there so I don’t expect anything, but I believe in extreme due diligence, especially buying a car from Quebec. I see the Quebec car haulers at the scrapyard by GM in Oshawa picking up cars all the time, so there’s no doubt in my mind there’s still a lot of rebuilds coming out of there.
Like I said, it’s a big dealer and it has solid reviews and no discoverable content online from anybody who has had a bad experience there so I don’t expect anything, but I believe in extreme due diligence, especially buying a car from Quebec. I see the Quebec car haulers at the scrapyard by GM in Oshawa picking up cars all the time, so there’s no doubt in my mind there’s still a lot of rebuilds coming out of there.
blackcamaro
Well-known member
Just get the actual link not a scanned copy. With the link it takes you straight to the Carfax site and can’t be doctored. Or just go directly to carfax.ca and buy one for around $50.
He did send the actual link to the Carfax report. Everything is up and up 100% so far.
The car has an interesting history - turns out it's from Ontario - it was sold at Humberview Hyundai and went into service in January 2018, so it was a very late model 2017 it seems...as back then these cars didn't sit on the lot for more than a day or two at most - they were VERY hot commodities. This is good - the car is really only a year old since it's been sitting at this dealer in Quebec since February.
In September of last year it does show an "Repair Record/Insurance Claim" for $2500 done in Ontario. The dealer says that it looks like he may have been rear-ended, but no police report was filed. $2500 isn't a massive repair but it gives me reason to look very close.
It was then traded in on December 11'th of last year in Toronto again at the same dealership it was sold at (Humberview), and shows going into stock at the Quebec dealer about 8 weeks later. The dealer it's listed at does openly state that the vehicle was a trade in, so again, everything seems up and up.
The accident does give me reason for pause. It's not a deal breaker unless I see unrepaired damage or something on the car, but from a resale perspective 2-4 years down the road...yeah, that could hurt.
I do suspect that there's room to negotiate however given it's been on their lot for at least 8 weeks now, especially when I bring up the accident thing.
We shall see.
The car has an interesting history - turns out it's from Ontario - it was sold at Humberview Hyundai and went into service in January 2018, so it was a very late model 2017 it seems...as back then these cars didn't sit on the lot for more than a day or two at most - they were VERY hot commodities. This is good - the car is really only a year old since it's been sitting at this dealer in Quebec since February.
In September of last year it does show an "Repair Record/Insurance Claim" for $2500 done in Ontario. The dealer says that it looks like he may have been rear-ended, but no police report was filed. $2500 isn't a massive repair but it gives me reason to look very close.
It was then traded in on December 11'th of last year in Toronto again at the same dealership it was sold at (Humberview), and shows going into stock at the Quebec dealer about 8 weeks later. The dealer it's listed at does openly state that the vehicle was a trade in, so again, everything seems up and up.
The accident does give me reason for pause. It's not a deal breaker unless I see unrepaired damage or something on the car, but from a resale perspective 2-4 years down the road...yeah, that could hurt.
I do suspect that there's room to negotiate however given it's been on their lot for at least 8 weeks now, especially when I bring up the accident thing.
We shall see.
Why would the Ontario dealer have shipped it to the Quebec dealer, especially if the used-car market in general has higher pricing in Ontario?
Who did the work involved in that repair claim? It had to have been an official workshop of some sort (otherwise it wouldn't have been reported, and wouldn't show up on Carfax at all).
The pessimistic side of me considers the possibility that there is unibody damage underneath a replaced and painted bumper skin, which prevents a legit Ontario dealer from giving the car a legit safety inspection certificate even though it looks ok from outside.
If it turns out ok, let us know how the return trip goes! I'm thinking that you will have to stop at least twice for a fast-charge.
Who did the work involved in that repair claim? It had to have been an official workshop of some sort (otherwise it wouldn't have been reported, and wouldn't show up on Carfax at all).
The pessimistic side of me considers the possibility that there is unibody damage underneath a replaced and painted bumper skin, which prevents a legit Ontario dealer from giving the car a legit safety inspection certificate even though it looks ok from outside.
If it turns out ok, let us know how the return trip goes! I'm thinking that you will have to stop at least twice for a fast-charge.
Does it have auto cruise? If so, can you set the following distance close enough to draft your volt?
Im with brian. It is very concerning that a very young car was shipped from a high value area to a low value area.
Quebec - where salvage titled cars go to have their virginity reinstated.
It's cause for extra eyeballs on the car, that's for sure. FWIW the car was repaired and continued with the previous owner for several months before trade in so it wasn't like it was repaired and immediately sold/traded in which I would agree, would seem dodgy..and it was traded in at a the dealer it was sold at (not just some random lot somewhere) so the paper trail there is reassuring. A dealer wouldn't have taken it on a trade in if it was trashed somehow or structurally unsound.
Maybe I'll call Humberview tomorrow with the VIN and see if they can give me any insight on things.
Why it ended up in quebec....I have a theory that when whispers of the new $5000 federal rebate on new EV's (which can be stacked with their existing $8000 provincial rebate, so $13K is a LOT of money) started leaking out in January/February that the market on used EV's in Quebec completely fell out from underneath the dealers....so they may very well have been scooping up the overflow in the used/trade in market here (since the demand for EV's in Quebec is massive compared to Ontario) and then when this happened...they got stuck with 1-2 year old cars in stock that suddenly became harder to sell because people would rather buy new after the rebates for not much more money. The exact same thing was happening here in Ontario when we had the $14K rebate - 1-2 year old EV's were basically unsellable because people would just buy brand new instead for the same money.
It all fits.
I spoke to the salesman again - FWIW he is really great, and everyone I've talked to (including their financial lady who was struggling with English a little, but did great) has also been most professional and helpful. It's clear this isn't a 2 bit operation. I asked him about the damage and he said he'd look closer and call me back - he went out with his paint thickness magnet and searched the car - he called back and said it appears that the passenger side front door has been repainted, but he said there's no damage anywhere else, so he suspects (and I'd tend to agree) that it may have been a parking lot fender bender type situation where the car either scrubbed something, or got backed into perhaps. He was honest at that point stating that he really didn't have much more info. A $2500 repair fits that kind of thing - someone smacked that exact door on my old POS Chevy Aveo about 5 years ago at the Pickering Flea Market and that was $2000, so $2500 for a dealer level repair I can totally see.
I certain get a good vibe from the dealer (and their Google reviews are stellar, both english and french reviews that all appear legit) so I'm still eyes wide open, but not scared off by any means at this point.
As for the trip home, yeah, 2 stops for fast charging absolutely, probably a third for a quick 5-10 minute hit as well just for some buffer. Will depend on temperature. One thing I do really like about the Ioniq is that it supports up to 70KW fast charging so you can go dead to 80% in 15 or 20 minutes if you happen to find a 70kw station. I haven't yet plotted anything on Plugshare but I don't expect any issues, the 401 corridor is pretty good for CCS fast chargers now.
Maybe I'll call Humberview tomorrow with the VIN and see if they can give me any insight on things.
Why it ended up in quebec....I have a theory that when whispers of the new $5000 federal rebate on new EV's (which can be stacked with their existing $8000 provincial rebate, so $13K is a LOT of money) started leaking out in January/February that the market on used EV's in Quebec completely fell out from underneath the dealers....so they may very well have been scooping up the overflow in the used/trade in market here (since the demand for EV's in Quebec is massive compared to Ontario) and then when this happened...they got stuck with 1-2 year old cars in stock that suddenly became harder to sell because people would rather buy new after the rebates for not much more money. The exact same thing was happening here in Ontario when we had the $14K rebate - 1-2 year old EV's were basically unsellable because people would just buy brand new instead for the same money.
It all fits.
I spoke to the salesman again - FWIW he is really great, and everyone I've talked to (including their financial lady who was struggling with English a little, but did great) has also been most professional and helpful. It's clear this isn't a 2 bit operation. I asked him about the damage and he said he'd look closer and call me back - he went out with his paint thickness magnet and searched the car - he called back and said it appears that the passenger side front door has been repainted, but he said there's no damage anywhere else, so he suspects (and I'd tend to agree) that it may have been a parking lot fender bender type situation where the car either scrubbed something, or got backed into perhaps. He was honest at that point stating that he really didn't have much more info. A $2500 repair fits that kind of thing - someone smacked that exact door on my old POS Chevy Aveo about 5 years ago at the Pickering Flea Market and that was $2000, so $2500 for a dealer level repair I can totally see.
I certain get a good vibe from the dealer (and their Google reviews are stellar, both english and french reviews that all appear legit) so I'm still eyes wide open, but not scared off by any means at this point.
As for the trip home, yeah, 2 stops for fast charging absolutely, probably a third for a quick 5-10 minute hit as well just for some buffer. Will depend on temperature. One thing I do really like about the Ioniq is that it supports up to 70KW fast charging so you can go dead to 80% in 15 or 20 minutes if you happen to find a 70kw station. I haven't yet plotted anything on Plugshare but I don't expect any issues, the 401 corridor is pretty good for CCS fast chargers now.
blackcamaro
Well-known member
I wouldn’t stress a $2500 insurance claim. Bodywork is expensive and body shops love giving it to insurance companies. Repair probably would’ve been half that if it was a cash paying customer not insurance. Fwiw with that kind of claim I’d be maybe trying to take that kind of car in trade $500 cheaper then if it didn’t have the claim, it really shouldn’t be a big deal. Crap happens sometimes and then it gets fixed.
Start getting over $5000 claims and I’d be a little more careful.
I wouldn’t over think the out Ontario to Quebec thing either. Literally thousands of used cars a week get shipped all over the country. Just do your regular due diligence the you would be doing purchasing a car and you’ll be fine. I’ve seen good cars from all over and junk from all over. Take it on a case by case basis and don’t worry about the theory’s.
Start getting over $5000 claims and I’d be a little more careful.
I wouldn’t over think the out Ontario to Quebec thing either. Literally thousands of used cars a week get shipped all over the country. Just do your regular due diligence the you would be doing purchasing a car and you’ll be fine. I’ve seen good cars from all over and junk from all over. Take it on a case by case basis and don’t worry about the theory’s.
Thx. Yeah, I'm not really worried...the history on the damage seems all above board in Ontario vs Quebec, and the dealer is being very upfront - when he actually went and probed the car looking for any signs the probe did tell the tale. I'll look very close.
It's all refundable as well if we decide to walk, so other than getting home (it looks like we are going to take the train out so we don't have 2 cars to drive home) it's no major loss. We are going to make a weekend out of it as well for my wife and I, little mini getaway...whether we come home with a new car, or not.
It's all refundable as well if we decide to walk, so other than getting home (it looks like we are going to take the train out so we don't have 2 cars to drive home) it's no major loss. We are going to make a weekend out of it as well for my wife and I, little mini getaway...whether we come home with a new car, or not.
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