vaccine poll | Page 16 | GTAMotorcycle.com

vaccine poll

Vaccinated?

  • Yes...Pfizer or Moderna

    Votes: 68 56.7%
  • Yes...Astra Zeneca or J&J

    Votes: 22 18.3%
  • not yet but soon

    Votes: 11 9.2%
  • not booking it yet but I might get it eventually

    Votes: 9 7.5%
  • not going to get vaccinated

    Votes: 11 9.2%

  • Total voters
    120

Robbo

Well-known member
I find it interesting that more and more universities are piling in to say that you need to be vaccinated if you live in residence but so far, I haven't seen any comments about classes. I would assume that if they are putting some restrictions on gathering in residence they will also be planning on some restrictions on classes but have chosen not to publicly release their plans yet (or nobody wants to be the first to say there will be ongoing restrictions).

I haven’t seen the gov’t offering an accelerated second dose specifically for college/uni students.

My college-bound kid has a second dose scheduled for late September and I am sure there are many others in the same boat.

Given the rate of second doses, I do expect he will be able to get shot #2 changed to August but these students seem to have been forgotten at this point.


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GreyGhost

Well-known member
Site Supporter
I haven’t seen the gov’t offering an accelerated second dose specifically for college/uni students.

My college-bound kid has a second dose scheduled for late September and I am sure there are many others in the same boat.

Given the rate of second doses, I do expect he will be able to get shot #2 changed to August but these students seem to have been forgotten at this point.


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The schools that have required immunization say they will help students get the required shots. I don't know what that looks like in practice. They have also substantially hedged their language. The headline says you need to be fully vaccinated but then the long version says they want at least one shot but if you show up without being fully vaccinated, they will help you expedite the shot. So in short, they want two weeks after your second shot but seems like they will take you weeks before your first shot. Like every other covid policy, a real head scratcher.
 

Maniac

Well-known member
I haven’t seen the gov’t offering an accelerated second dose specifically for college/uni students.
Ontario moved all 12-25 yo 2nd dose eligibility to August.
 

Robbo

Well-known member
The schools that have required immunization say they will help students get the required shots. I don't know what that looks like in practice. They have also substantially hedged their language. The headline says you need to be fully vaccinated but then the long version says they want at least one shot but if you show up without being fully vaccinated, they will help you expedite the shot. So in short, they want two weeks after your second shot but seems like they will take you weeks before your first shot. Like every other covid policy, a real head scratcher.

Fortunately, he’s not staying in residence.

On another note, I’m being the good son and driving my mum to get her second shot in a few hours. That will be both mum and mother-in-law fully vaccinated.

And the wife and I made a slight change to our second shot appt. from Sobeys pharmacy to one of the Oakville clinics. Gained a whole 15 minutes in appt times lol !!! Truth is, we decided to move away from a second AZ shot. Sobeys is administering Moderna, but uncertain if there will be supply. Higher probability we will get a Pfizer shot at the clinic we booked at.


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GreyGhost

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Fortunately, he’s not staying in residence.

On another note, I’m being the good son and driving my mum to get her second shot in a few hours. That will be both mum and mother-in-law fully vaccinated.

And the wife and I made a slight change to our second shot appt. from Sobeys pharmacy to one of the Oakville clinics. Gained a whole 15 minutes in appt times lol !!! Truth is, we decided to move away from a second AZ shot. Sobeys is administering Moderna, but uncertain if there will be supply. Higher probability we will get a Pfizer shot at the clinic we booked at.


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Let us know how your shot goes. I'm not eligible (according to manufacturer timetable) for another three weeks. When I get close, I will have my wife dig through the currently available science to see which shot I should try to get. All of the science overseers that are supposed to be doing that for us (MOH, NACI, etc), have drunk the kool-aid and are no better than politicians at spewing crap and flip-flopping with no new evidence.
 

Robbo

Well-known member
Ontario moved all 12-25 yo 2nd dose eligibility to August.

I understand that and maybe I should have been more specific.

Those dates need to be even sooner specifically for college/uni students. When eligibility opens up, you are typically looking at appt. dates 2 weeks or more down the road. That, plus add 2 weeks for the body to build up to maximum immunity is cutting a fine line if you start telling students they need to be fully vaccinated.


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GreyGhost

Well-known member
Site Supporter
That, plus add 2 weeks for the body to build up to maximum immunity is cutting a fine line if you start telling students they need to be fully vaccinated.
Remember, it is dodgy covid double speak. Headline is fully vaccinated, reality is try to do something.
 

Brian P

Well-known member
Moderator
Site Supporter
Here is the actual paper ... not the journalist's interpretation of it. (edit: Lengthy, I have NOT read the whole thing ... but it looks like this goes into the way anti-establishment messages are transmitted in quite some depth. It is NOT saying that anti-maskers use science better than scientists do!) https://arxiv.org/pdf/2101.07993.pdf

Broken link

Not broken ... it works fine. Depending on your browser, you may have to download the file and use a separate PDF viewer to open it ... or install a PDF-viewer extension in your browser. Given the number of times that I read technical articles published in PDF format (not just for coronavirus! work-related, too) mine is set up to just open them. My phone just opens them.

As an aside, we now know that you only read the media-spin article that cited this paper, without checking the source to see if the media-spin article had cherrypicked, mis-quoted, misunderstood, or taken something out of context in the source article for its own purposes, whatever they may be.

The actual source article is quite good.
 

Evoex

The God
Site Supporter
Round 2 booked for next week.

Mobile clinic at work again, I feel special. :cool:
 

timtune

Well-known member
Is this going to matter if our neighbours to the south can't reach 70-75% vaccination rates? (herd immunity?)
Trump planted the seed and now even free guns, booze or joints (Joints for Jabs - all I got was a bandaid) isn't enough to get most republicans to roll up there sleeve's.
 

ToSlow

Well-known member
Site Supporter
As an aside, we now know that you only read the media-spin article that cited this paper, without checking the source to see if the media-spin article had cherrypicked, mis-quoted, misunderstood, or taken something out of context in the source article for its own purposes, whatever they may be.

The actual source article is quite good.
You can assume what you want. But fact checking with a credible source might be something for you in the future
 

Brian P

Well-known member
Moderator
Site Supporter
You can assume what you want. But fact checking with a credible source might be something for you in the future

The source article from the MIT authors - the PDF file - is as credible as they get. Find a way to download it and read it.

I'm not going to dismiss MediaBiasFactCheck on the grounds of a wikipedia article that anyone can edit.
 

Brian P

Well-known member
Moderator
Site Supporter
Is this going to matter if our neighbours to the south can't reach 70-75% vaccination rates? (herd immunity?)
Trump planted the seed and now even free guns, booze or joints (Joints for Jabs - all I got was a bandaid) isn't enough to get most republicans to roll up there sleeve's.

The thing that no one knows, is what the "herd immunity" threshold is ... but what we do know, is that it's variable depending on how infectious the disease in question is. The Delta variant (previously known as B.1.617.2) appears to move that threshold up ... but no one knows by how much.

As long as the vaccines remain reasonably effective (and I fully acknowledge that we might eventually need a booster shot to address variants) ... It will remain mostly a disease of the unvaccinated. If you're part of the 70%-75% that (eventually) are fully vaccinated ... or 55% in the USA ... it's (almost) not your problem any more.

Our neighbors to the south may end up with an infection curve that has a long tail. Supposedly the Delta variant is around 6% of cases there as of a few days ago (supposedly 25% here, 60% in the UK). They may end up with another "wave" ... but it will be a disease of the unvaccinated, most of whom by that point would have made that a conscious choice.

The feds are making noise of opening up cross-border traffic to people with proof of vaccination. I know that at least some people in government are aware of the possibility of counterfeit documentation (and CBSA has prosecuted people with fake vaccination certificates ... "they know"). I just hope that they adopt something that is accepted, or at least compatible, worldwide. It would be great if they adopted the EU's digital covid certificate system which is ready-to-go and is supposed to go live on 1 July. The USA isn't going to do that. Oh well.
 

Dimitri

Well-known member
Not broken ... it works fine.

No, it's broken, has an extra "." That confuses some readers and operating systems.

Some highlights for everyone...

So how do these groups diverge from scientific orthodoxy if they are using the same data? We have identified a few sleights of hand that contribute to the broader epistemological crisis we identify between these groups and the majority of scientific researchers. For instance, they argue that there is an outsized emphasis on deaths versus cases: if the current datasets are fundamentally subjective and prone to manipulation (e.g., increased levels of faulty testing, asymptomatic vs. symptomatic cases), then deaths are the only reliable markers of the pandemic’s severity. Even then, these groups believe that deaths are an additionally problematic category because doctors are using a COVID diagnosis as the main cause of death (i.e., people who die because of COVID) when in reality there are other factors at play (i.e., dying with but not because of COVID). Since these categories are fundamentally subject to human interpretation, especially by those who have a vested interest in reporting as many COVID deaths as possible, these numbers are vastly over-reported, unreliable, and no more significant than the flu.

Most fundamentally, the groups we studied believe that science is a process, and not an institution. As we have outlined in the case study, these groups mistrust the scientific establishment (“Science”) because they believe that the institution has been corrupted by profit motives and politics. The knowledge that the CDC and academics have created cannot be trusted because they need to be subject to increased doubt, and not accepted as consensus. In the same way that climate change skeptics have appealed to Karl Popper’s theory of falsification to show why climate science needs to be subjected to continuous scrutiny in order to be valid [42], we have found that anti-mask groups point to Thomas Kuhn’s The Structure of Scientific Revolutions to show how their anomalous evidence— once dismissed by the scientific establishment—will pave the way to a new paradigm (“As I’ve recently described, I’m no stranger to presenting data that are inconsistent with the narrative. It can get ugly. People do not give up their paradigms easily. [...] Thomas Kuhn wrote about this phenomenon, which occurs repeatedly throughout history. Now is the time to hunker down. Stand with the data,” August 5, 2020). For anti-maskers, valid science must be a process they can critically engage for themselves in an unmediated way. Increased doubt, not consensus, is the marker of scientific certitude.

Arguing that anti-maskers simply need more scientific literacy is to characterize their approach as uninformed and inexplicably extreme. This study shows the opposite: users in these communities are deeply invested in forms of critique and knowledge production that they recognize as markers of scientific expertise. If anything, anti-mask science has extended the traditional tools of data analysis by taking up the theoretical mantle of recent critical studies of visualization [31, 35]. Anti-mask approaches acknowledge the subjectivity of how datasets are constructed, attempt to reconcile the data with lived experience, and these groups seek to make the process of understanding data as transparent as possible in order to challenge the powers that be. For example, one of the most popular visualizations within the Facebook groups we studied were unit visualizations, which are popular among anti-maskers and computer scientists for the same reasons: they provide more information, better match a reader’s mental model, and they allow users to interact with them in new and more interesting ways [80]. Barring tables, they are the most unmediated way to interact with data: one dot represents one person.

In other words, our paper introduces new ways of thinking about “democratizing” data analysis and visualization. Instead of treating increased adoption of data-driven storytelling as an unqualified good, we show that data visualizations are not simply tools that people use to understand the epidemiological events around them. They are a battleground that highlight the contested role of expertise in modern American life.
 

Dimitri

Well-known member
They can all jump the queue after me.

And that is the problem with this roll out. Those at risk, 60+ and those who legitimately had essential jobs, such as grocery store workers, pharmacy workers, and essential infrastructure (power generation and distribution) and those who supported them on site. And legitimately had to work at their jobs so we'd have food, medicine, nursing/personal care staff and keep the lights on and water and sewage flowing should have been next.

Instead we threw out the playbook and started to vaccinate those who should have been at home from day 1 when hospitals started to call research and administrative staff who worked from home for a year to jump the queue and get their shots. So the government followed suit and made it entirely aged based brackets for a while.

Then people wonder why many hospital staff and essential workers said screw it with regards to the vaccine.
 

Brian P

Well-known member
Moderator
Site Supporter
I understand that and maybe I should have been more specific.

Those dates need to be even sooner specifically for college/uni students. When eligibility opens up, you are typically looking at appt. dates 2 weeks or more down the road. That, plus add 2 weeks for the body to build up to maximum immunity is cutting a fine line if you start telling students they need to be fully vaccinated.

Canada is supposed to be getting 2.4 million doses per week of Pfizer in June (3 more deliveries) plus 2 million more per week through July (4 more deliveries) plus 7 million Moderna sometime this month. That's 22.2 milion doses by the end of July plus a couple million already received that haven't been administered yet. That plus the 3 million ish who have already had their second dose ... It's enough to get everyone who has already had their first dose, their second, by the end of July. Haven't even talked about August yet. Most of us, including most of the students, should be done, with both doses, by early August, with just the stragglers through the rest of August. It will be OK.
 

pfbmgd

Well-known member

If main media is covering this . There are way more cases .

Why anyone would let their kids take the vaccine . They are allowed only under emergency use . Their chances of getting seriously sick are alomst zero .
 

Dimitri

Well-known member
If main media is covering this . There are way more cases .

Israel is saying 55 cases per million of myocarditis of Pfizer vaccine recipients.

Makes the handful of blood clots (mostly survivable too) seem like inconsequential.

But a $2 at cost vaccine is getting all the flack. But a $20 vaccine that has netted billions in profit barely gets a peep.
 

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