They are literally installing the cold air return as I type this. New furnace is in. Sent the kids out of the house as I wasn't sure how long this would take.
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Yay....more home reno fun....
- Thread starter mimico_polak
- Start date
Sounds small to me too, but that ship has sailed for now. Why did they have a round duct return? Was forced-air retrofit at some point in the past? Typical returns would use multiple stud/joist cavities (~50 sq/in per stud bay), the 6" round is about 28 sq in. How many btu is new furnace?
Personally, I would bite the bullet and spray foam the garage ceiling. Add CC''s suggestion of foam to break the thermal bridge and you are rocking (although you may have to be careful as you don't want a double vapor barrier with air between so batt may be the winner). I normally agree with trials, but no bleeping way I would put a plywood ceiling in a garage. You need the firebreak.
Hardypanel is not insulation. Hardypanel is a great solution to a very low maintenance decorative cover over insulation. What is the current outside finish of the house?
No way would I install 1" foam over the existing drywall. You are just asking for moisture problems. If you plan on staying there for a long time, I would pull the drywall and fur out the wall with 2x2's (where possible), reinsulate w 2x6 batts, revapor barrier, fix the crap seal that is likely around the windows and reboard. You can do a room at a time, each room should only take you a week of evenings (clear,demo,build,trim,finish,put furniture back). You will need to pull all electrical boxes forward, you are legally allowed to do electrical work in your own house (with some rules) but get help if you are concerned. Make sure the vapor barrier is contiguous around the boxes, if you pay someone to do it, they will most likely not bother doing this (and it matters a lot).
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It does look like it was an afterthought. I can post a pic later once the guys are done and gone. New furnace is running now and you can definitely feel a difference already at the outlets. Air is much warmer, and stronger then before.
Trials
Well-known member
Was actually thinking of the walls, not the ceiling. Ceiling and barrier wall between the garage and living area on mine are drywall for the reason you stated, I think it might even be a code requirement.
@GreyGhost Thanks for that edit, good info. The current outside walls are all brick. I wouldn't put the insulation over the drywall. If I'm at that stage, I'm ripping the drywall down. But that's a discussion with the wife. We both like stucco exterior, but just need to save some more cash so we can get it done. Will go to the neighbours' this week to get their contacts as we have 5-6 homes on the street with it done, and it looks good.
If we are pulling the drywall, then I'd re-wire the entire house at that point in time. Lots of outlets don't have grounds (see other reno thread I started) and that's another item on the 'to do' list. Work work work...at least I get to learn some new stuff.
If we are pulling the drywall, then I'd re-wire the entire house at that point in time. Lots of outlets don't have grounds (see other reno thread I started) and that's another item on the 'to do' list. Work work work...at least I get to learn some new stuff.
Just keep in mind that all circuits need AFCI now. Start saving. To get enough semi-affordable AFCI breakers, you are likely looking at a new panel or subpanel (ime, fancy breakers for older panels have crazy prices). I would be calling in all the favors I had to try to get closer to wholesale pricing (there are quite a few sparkies on GTAM).
As for stucco over brick to add insulation, I wouldn't count on it. As trials said, there is an air space behind the brick that should be relatively at outdoor air temperature so your layer of insulation is in the wrong spot. Ideally you need insulation behind the brick attached to the OSB (or quite possibly tentest in your case) to provide a complete thermal break and additional insulation, but that is the most expensive place to get to.
I don't know if anyone blows insulation into walls anymore. You used to be able to drill a <3" hole into each stud bay and blast away, then patch all your holes. Some of that insulation had big issues. You seem like a decent person so if you want to borrow an thermal camera to see what horrors you are currently working with, you are welcome to it (I am north of Barrie).
Years ago I looked at why we had issues with an end of the ductwork return in our master bedroom. The reason is numerous small leaks before the return air gets to that room. Solution..tape the joins in all the ductwork. I could do this at any exposed area but couldn't do this for ductwork already behind walls etc without ripping out the walls...however, there is a solution for this that could help you.
I remember finding a company in the GTA that comes in and seals up all your vents etc and then blows a special polymer into your ductwork. This plugs leaks automatically and hardens at any such leaks giving you next to perfect air flow. Problem was when I contacted them they weren't willing to travel to Kingston. I can't for the life of me remember the company though but it may well help you if you have older hidden ductwork.
I remember finding a company in the GTA that comes in and seals up all your vents etc and then blows a special polymer into your ductwork. This plugs leaks automatically and hardens at any such leaks giving you next to perfect air flow. Problem was when I contacted them they weren't willing to travel to Kingston. I can't for the life of me remember the company though but it may well help you if you have older hidden ductwork.
Trials
Well-known member
I think the stuff they used to spray in through holes in the outside wall was Urea Formaldehyde foam <- ya that was nasty stuff since banned, I remember when I first heard of it and thinking the name alone was enough to turn me off ever using the product. It sounded way too much like piss mixed with embalming fluid.
It used to be like polyurethane foam. Google "Bhopal" to see why that's not a good idea.
Trials
Well-known member
that came up with Methyl isocyanateJust had a chat with the guy. Furnace is blowing hot air and the house immediately feels different.
One of the issues he pointed out was we have those beautiful wooden grates at every outlet. He said to take them out and replace them with less restrictive ones. The area is 1/4 of what it should be, so it restricts the airflow very much.
Also gave me a contact for spray foaming the garage ceiling, so will look into that option.
One of the issues he pointed out was we have those beautiful wooden grates at every outlet. He said to take them out and replace them with less restrictive ones. The area is 1/4 of what it should be, so it restricts the airflow very much.
Also gave me a contact for spray foaming the garage ceiling, so will look into that option.
Yeah, that was the bad stuff. They did it with cellulose too IIRC which has its own issues (settling, hates getting wet). That being said, something can be better than nothing depending on what he has right now.
Yeah, I put the custom matched picture framed wood registers into the last house. Damn did they ever restrict flow. 95% of the time, I left them out.
Yes you are correct. The AFCI breakers are approximately $90/each, and the ones that can be had after the panel are about $50/each. Already looked into it, but haven't gotten to that stage. My buddy is also doing similar work, in a similarly aged house (Markland Woods are) and I'm going to his house often to see what he's going through so I'm preparing myself.
Thank you for the offer of the camera, definitely interested (possibly next rotation if that's cool with you). And I'd like to think I'm a decent guy, lol. Thanks for the observation. Barrie is on our way to the cottage (Wasaga) so can always make an excuse to go that way. Need to shovel the driveway anyway soon.
Speaking of UFFI, I hate to admit it, but when I was in my early twenties, I used to install that stuff. I was always of the opinion that if done properly, it probably wasn't going to break down (and produce formaldehyde gas). Then I think of the clowns I was working with and realize it was probably never properly done. We had a standardized bucket we were supposed to fill every so often to check the mix (fill, scrape and weigh) and it was a good day if that got done with a dirty bucket at the start of the day.
-Maverick-
Well-known member
Don't end up this couple!
Some great advice in this thread, take it!
Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk
Some great advice in this thread, take it!
Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk
Lot of houses in the 70's had urea based foam spray, which has to be legally disclosed in a real estate deal. I bought one, attic was sprayed , I didnt spend any time up there and it was well vented, didnt care.
It is a code requirement that garage cielings under living spaces have to be drywalled, or cement board paneled.
the grill size on floor registers is such a problem area, and almost nobody notices.
There are guys putting cellulose into wall cavities through the '3" hole at top system, new cellulose is moisture resistant and has an additive that makes it "granular" if thats the correct word and it doesnt settle.
It is a code requirement that garage cielings under living spaces have to be drywalled, or cement board paneled.
the grill size on floor registers is such a problem area, and almost nobody notices.
There are guys putting cellulose into wall cavities through the '3" hole at top system, new cellulose is moisture resistant and has an additive that makes it "granular" if thats the correct word and it doesnt settle.
Building inspector here passed exposed spray foam on the ceiling and walls of the entire garage I plan on drywalling it but inspector had no issues with it apparently.
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Yikes. I guess modern spray foam passes smoke and flammability tests, but it would still scare the crap out of me.
My parents have had uncovered foam board in a cold room for 40 years. Thankfully it is sort of outside the building envelope and unless a freezer gets really burning there shouldnt be an ignition source. I havent bothered to fix it as I dont want to pull it all down, put in zbar and redo it.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
More or less the same thing I had to deal with in my place. We did a few things that really helped, but it was messy and time consuming.
One by one we stripped the drywall from the rooms with exterior walls and re insulated with Roxul and added vapor barrier that was acoustically sealed top and bottom. For the ceiling in the house we painted a polyurethane vapor barrier primer and blew in R40. They house had already been refitted with decent windows. We also upsized the main and return ducts. Heating cost cut in about 1/2.
My Garage is detached with a small 450sq' apartment above, we used Roxul R40 between the unheated garage space and the room above, then the same in the walls. The apartment stays at 68F in the winter with electricity -- approx 260kwh/month -- about $35.
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