Will the next "hit the fan" moment involve boomers? | Page 6 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Will the next "hit the fan" moment involve boomers?

油井緋色 said:
No hard feelings dude. I get where you were coming from. I did **** everyone's track day.



A lot of us were fed the idea of going to school, graduating, and instant success. The people I hang out with are mostly STEM so they do actually start at $65k+. The "your special" thing definitely ****** a lot of us; took a few years for me to accept the fact that I'm not important but neither is anyone else. The ribbon thing wouldn't apply to myself or many I know; a lot of my peers were actually star performers (high honor graduates, scholarships every year, doctors, etc.) This didn't make the situation better because nobody gives a **** outside of the academic world that you're a high performer; if anything it makes them insecure.



That's not entirely true lol I've definitely see this tho and it's sad (especially when my fiancee and I go out for a date and see another couple glued to their phones.)



The bolded stuff is exactly why. I spent most of my early days being bullied due to being Asian, fob (uncultured), called 4 eyes, chink, beaten up, etc. etc. and was very skinny. Later on became fat. But I learned in grade 2 that the most effective way to deal with a bully was to punch them in the face, repeatedly, and break their spirit through finding their insecurities and poking at them. Even if I lost the fight physically, I knew they'd never **** with me again after.

When I found the statistics for overweight and obesity, it hit me every one of those people have the same insecurities I used to have. We can't punch people now, but the same bullies exist at work. These are the guys who throw their "I have x years of experience" as a response to a conflicting idea. which doesn't matter in software development; **** changes rapidly, keep learning or know less than fresh graduates. I've also had a few senior folk blow up at myself and others because they needed a punching bag for whatever reason as well; this isn't okay.

So the poking at insecurities still works very well (can easily tell from facial expressions, responses, deflections, etc.) There's also a strange charismatic side effect I've noticed: the other devs end up looking to me for leadership. This has happened at 3 different companies, and during university so I know I'm picking my targets right.

Mentioning it here....? Well, I'm powertripping; thanks for calling that out as I do need to tone that the **** down.



I've become a lot more arrogant over the last 3 years. When I first went to work, it was for FAANG (S&P500 tech companies.) The work I did stood out because I try to do a decent job. I later moved into more traditional businesses where it was obvious nobody, not even the CTOs, knew enough about software dev. Because software dev is black magic to the oblivious, it doesn't matter how well of a job I or other devs do; only the devs will know. So I learned I had to peacock a **** ton to get recognition for myself or other devs. This is definitely bleeding out of me as a bad habit now.

To be honest, writing this has made me realize I'm quite ashamed of what I've become, and I largely want to blame that on boomers because I was under the impression that boomers know better than me (that was naive thinking, "nobody will save you" is a lesson every competent software developer learns lol); the holier than thou attitude contributed directly to this.

Thanks for the serious reply; I've got some real reflecting I need to do.
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I managed some pretty big software dev teams over my career and have a few medals on my wall. I always had 1 or two geniuses on my teams, and a pile of peons to do the work. I always trusted the geniuses, but not the peons who thought they were in the genius category.

if you are not management capable you are not with the genius group. You are just a peon, valuable but just a peon and you will always be treated like a peon.

Managers don’t get there on their dev skills, a hard concept for peons to grasp. The communicate, plan and adhere to the needs of the business and demonstrate leadership skills. I didn’t give two ***** about dev capabilities in my leaders, I cared that they understood what needed to be done and did everything possible to make that happen.

One of the sad realities of STEM training is the lack of focus on business and leadership. In a better world, we could develop leaders with STEM backgrounds and strong tech skills. There are simply not enough of them.
 
Mad Mike said:
One of the sad realities of STEM training is the lack of focus on business and leadership. In a better world, we could develop leaders with STEM backgrounds and strong tech skills. There are simply not enough of them.
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I've been offered management positions multiple times and repeatedly turned them down. My performance review from the CTO gave me the highest value on leadership and technical abilities for 2019.

Stop with the assumptions; I'm sick of showboating. Did you try that strategy at a FAANG company btw (including IBM)? Because the two FAANGs I worked at had managers that could also code quite decently. I don't actually know any managers from FAANGs that can't code well; Facebook might be an exception because I know a few who quit due to the boomer logic you're encouraging.

A lead is one that carries the team, leads through action, and shields the team from drama. You cannot carry or lead by action if you can't code well, you can't even mentor them (another lead skill.) A lead is chosen not by upper management, but by everyone around them. A lead that has no respect from their employees will find themselves alone very fast, and their position ripe for usurping because they can't keep their team in line.

...and it just occurred to me you refer to the majority of your team members as peons. This is the kind of boomer logic that needs to get nuked. Do not look down on your team, ever. Elevate them to surpass you.
 
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Close friend of mine is IBM's longest term employee, he's a boomer.
I keep telling him to retire.
 
I agree the current generation has it too easy expecting to make it through life with jobs like " social media influencer/model/expert" Those don't know what hard work truly is. The only part that grinds my gears is the boomers who ruined the housing market buying up rental properties with any extra penny they had, making it extremely difficult for any young couple to get into their own home. The problem is greed, no one can be happy with just one house and a pool for the family, Have to buy more more more.
In 1990 my dad built a house for 160 grand while making somewhere around $17 an hour.
Same house today is worth $700k....and my first job offer after graduating college just a few years ago was $16 an hour.
So unless you're making 50-60 bucks an hour these days they cant say it isn't harder for us.
 
kfYY0DS.jpg
 
It's called autodidactic

it takes balls to use that word on a resume
 
油井緋色 said:
No hard feelings dude. I get where you were coming from. I did **** everyone's track day.



A lot of us were fed the idea of going to school, graduating, and instant success. The people I hang out with are mostly STEM so they do actually start at $65k+. The "your special" thing definitely ****** a lot of us; took a few years for me to accept the fact that I'm not important but neither is anyone else. The ribbon thing wouldn't apply to myself or many I know; a lot of my peers were actually star performers (high honor graduates, scholarships every year, doctors, etc.) This didn't make the situation better because nobody gives a **** outside of the academic world that you're a high performer; if anything it makes them insecure.



That's not entirely true lol I've definitely see this tho and it's sad (especially when my fiancee and I go out for a date and see another couple glued to their phones.)



The bolded stuff is exactly why. I spent most of my early days being bullied due to being Asian, fob (uncultured), called 4 eyes, chink, beaten up, etc. etc. and was very skinny. Later on became fat. But I learned in grade 2 that the most effective way to deal with a bully was to punch them in the face, repeatedly, and break their spirit through finding their insecurities and poking at them. Even if I lost the fight physically, I knew they'd never **** with me again after.

When I found the statistics for overweight and obesity, it hit me every one of those people have the same insecurities I used to have. We can't punch people now, but the same bullies exist at work. These are the guys who throw their "I have x years of experience" as a response to a conflicting idea. which doesn't matter in software development; **** changes rapidly, keep learning or know less than fresh graduates. I've also had a few senior folk blow up at myself and others because they needed a punching bag for whatever reason as well; this isn't okay.

So the poking at insecurities still works very well (can easily tell from facial expressions, responses, deflections, etc.) There's also a strange charismatic side effect I've noticed: the other devs end up looking to me for leadership. This has happened at 3 different companies, and during university so I know I'm picking my targets right.

Mentioning it here....? Well, I'm powertripping; thanks for calling that out as I do need to tone that the **** down.



I've become a lot more arrogant over the last 3 years. When I first went to work, it was for FAANG (S&P500 tech companies.) The work I did stood out because I try to do a decent job. I later moved into more traditional businesses where it was obvious nobody, not even the CTOs, knew enough about software dev. Because software dev is black magic to the oblivious, it doesn't matter how well of a job I or other devs do; only the devs will know. So I learned I had to peacock a **** ton to get recognition for myself or other devs. This is definitely bleeding out of me as a bad habit now.

To be honest, writing this has made me realize I'm quite ashamed of what I've become, and I largely want to blame that on boomers because I was under the impression that boomers know better than me (that was naive thinking, "nobody will save you" is a lesson every competent software developer learns lol); the holier than thou attitude contributed directly to this.

Thanks for the serious reply; I've got some real reflecting I need to do.
Click to expand...
I managed some pretty big software dev teams over my career and have a few medals on my wall. I always had 1 or two geniuses on my teams, and a pile of peons to do the work. I always trusted the geniuses, but not the peons who thought they were in the genius category.

if you are not management capable you are not with the genius group. You are just a peon, valuable but just a peon and you will always be treated like a peon.

Managers don’t get there on their dev skills, a hard concept for peons to grasp. They develop communication, planning, and leadership skills, they also adhere to principles that the meet employee and business needs. I didn’t give two ***** about dev capabilities in my leaders, I cared that they understood the realities of the business here and now.
 
"Do not look down on your team, ever. Elevate them to surpass you."
Did you steal that right out of a fortune cookie ?

:D as a good manager I'm sure he meant to type pawns and the spell check changed it to pee ons
 
Trials said:
...
:D as a good manager I'm sure he meant to type pawns and the spell check changed it to pee ons
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I used peon in the pejorative sense. It’s all relative, every profession as someone doing the grunt work and others leading them.

I have had some great bosses who never did the work I was doing, that didn’t mean they couldn’t lead, mentor and make things happen.
 
I dont hire guys to work for me, I hire guys that want my job. If in an interview you tell me, I want to be the best inside sales guy ever, not travel, no golf thanks, no dinners at the club, i like to dress in shorts and a t shirt for work. Ok, we need some drones. Tell me you'd like to learn my job. awesome, because until you are there, I'm there. And quite frankly I have other stuff to do.
I dont care if your gen x, identify as gender neutral, millenial or a boomer. Put the numbers on the scoreboard and you can walk through the office with your dick out.
 
crankcall said:
I dont hire guys to work for me, I hire guys that want my job. If in an interview you tell me, I want to be the best inside sales guy ever, not travel, no golf thanks, no dinners at the club, i like to dress in shorts and a t shirt for work. Ok, we need some drones. Tell me you'd like to learn my job. awesome, because until you are there, I'm there. And quite frankly I have other stuff to do.
I dont care if your gen x, identify as gender neutral, millenial or a boomer. Put the numbers on the scoreboard and you can walk through the office with your dick out.
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You make an important point, gen/age doesn’t matter, nor does race, color, religion, sexual orientation. When I look at candidates I want to see willingness to learn and develop, resiliency, and commitment to duties. I also value diversity, I want new team members to bring something to the table that we don’t have.

One small difference in my line of work — rockstars with good scorecards have to keep their skirts down or junk in their pants.
 
crankcall said:
I dont care if your gen x, identify as gender neutral, millenial or a boomer. Put the numbers on the scoreboard and you can walk through the office with your dick out.
Click to expand...
my boss called it the ‘what have you done for me lately’ question.

great that you had a good last week/month/quarter/year....what are your numbers today?

honestly I kind of miss being in sales as it was challenging like hell but very rewarding
 
Interesting thread...

Myself being a millennial, I understand OP.

What makes me feel a little better is that we'll also come across opportunities that we can take advantage of that may have been caused by older generations.

And when we do, we'll justify that it's the best course of action for our and future generations with whatever known information. Just like what they did. But it's possible that couple generations later, it may not have been optimal.


I guess I'm trying to say that we're all humans that are trying to do the best we can.




By the way, he deadlifts 400lbs, not bench press.
 
moarmoto said:
...
What makes me feel a little better is that we'll also come across opportunities that we can take advantage of that may have been caused by older generations.
...
Click to expand...
Yep, if it wasn't for the boomers the millennial' wouldn't be computer programmers they would still be using slide rules and logarithm tables.


:LOL: I bet he has to google slide rules and logarithm tables.
 
moarmoto said:
What makes me feel a little better is that we'll also come across opportunities that we can take advantage of that may have been caused by older generations.

And when we do, we'll justify that it's the best course of action for our and future generations with whatever known information. Just like what they did. But it's possible that couple generations later, it may not have been optimal.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that perspective; I think some of it has already happened to me.

The FAANG companies are tech focused (startup costs for software is cheap, so they save the $ traditional brick and mortar businesses have to pony up and pay their devs a lot more as a result. These are also not as boomer heavy, age wise. Many of them have the concept of "create, get users, monetize later." Facebook, Google, and Discord are examples of this.

Traditional businesses are money focused and very boomer heavy with regards to upper management. Many are failing to adapt to the above (which is really where the $ is at) because they don't know how to quantify it. This is a massive opportunity because most boomers don't know how to navigate this, and a lot of traditional businesses are getting ****** by overpaying due to ignorance. So working at a FAANG and downgrading to a traditional business may result in less complex work, less hours, and stress (and almost certainly less pay, FAANGs don't pay $120k+ as entry for no reason.) This would the opportunity you're talking about.

As for what's not optimal.....I'm not sure about that yet.
 
Optimal would be to broaden your horizons and diversify a little.


oops sorry, thinking like a boomer.
 
The jig is up boomers,

The millennials found out about the secret meetings in the 80s and 90s to invest your money in property so in 2020 your grandchildren will be priced out of the market. It wasn't wise investing, it the isn't an example of limited supply and high demand, they now know about the conspiracy!

As for the environment, same thing, secret meetings....it isn't that the science has progressed and showed that past decisions were in error....damn conspiracy it was. Not that decisions were made for what was best for them at the time without really knowing the current and future impact, not at all (nowing there was some impact but not as much as there really was, someone else's problem).

Also, secret meetings about not retiring early to screw over the millenials, well played. Of course it is not that you still want (or even need) to make more money.

BTW, what does everyone think about the future environmental impact of what are basically disposable smart phones will be? Got to have one, new one every couple of years, even if the old one works fine. Mining precious metals in the third world to feed the habit. Human rights violations in the factories that build the phones. I hope they do not find out about your secret meeting to keep feeding the beast.... Knowing there is some impact but not as much as there really is, someone else's problem.... Stop buying them and it all stops.

Or is it that people do what is best for them, people of all generations continue to do so, human nature maybe?
 
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