Naked/Sportbike Decision | Page 3 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Naked/Sportbike Decision

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bigpoppa said:
versatility, most modern adv bikes are pretty good all rounders, european ones especially do everything well
If you dont believe me, just look at any of @shanekingsley ride reports.

A ktm 790 adventure R will be comfy all day, can rip around like a sport bike, and still be decent offroad
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No doubt its fully capable and can rip around. Just not the overall genre of bike I'm looking to make the move to. Looking for a smaller step in styling etc from what I have had for the last 23 years.
 
Priller said:
Look, just because what this guy is asking for doesn't fit the bill on those bikes doesn't make those bad bikes. Not sure why the need to be so defensive? I may be out of touch or uninformed on many things, but this ain't one of them...

He's made clear he simply doesn't care about doing 400 km days. That's not what he's buying the bike for and it's not why he rides. Can you hustle an S1000XR? Absolutely. Can you make speed with an MTS? Effin' right you can. Is a Super Duke one of the most fun bikes ever made? Without doubt. Can the supercharged Kawi do mega speed with no effort? Damn right. Are all these absolutely amazing motorcycles that do what they're designed to do exceptionally well, and then some? Yes, yes, yes. When Big Poppa was looking at bikes, I argued that the KTM was what ticked the boxes for his needs more than the Tuono, as he wasn't fussed about things like ground clearance, but really wanted a twin that was hairy balls powerful while still being a comfy place to sit. But he wasn't saying he wanted something sporty suited for quick rips, nor was he saying he wanted a sportbike but was considering some minor comfort concessions.

For what this guy is looking for, they also have compromises for comfort, utility, etc, that get in the way of what he wants to do. You can post endless videos of people ripping around tracks and curvy roads on ADV bikes, supermotos, etc, and while impressive, they don't show anything except that the rider is generally more important than the bike. Nobody is putting a supermoto or an ADV bike on a competitive grid because they're simply not faster around a typical race track than a sportbike.

Granted, we're not talking about track riding here, but a lot of the same demands exist: speed, best possible cornering ability, powerful engine, ergos designed to allow body position that keeps the bike as upright as possible. He's obviously an experienced rider, and coming off an RC51 is as aware as anyone of the comfort drawbacks associated with sportbikes.

I will admit, there are lots of folks on sportbikes who could be much happier on something less extreme. A quick perusal of the fat chicken strip selection at a typical cafe stop tells that story well (yes, not the whole story, sure, but if someone owns a sportbike long-term with chicken strips, the odds are high that they're not at the level where the bike's ability is the limiting factor). But there are lots who love the sportbike vibe, and I'm not here to judge. Another good friend rode an 848 for years while never threatening a knee slider. He didn't care. He thought the bike was beautiful, wasn't fussed about comfort, and just liked having it. He rode slow for a couple hours at a stretch on weekends, and then to Cafe Divano to sip a latte (in the afternoon, blech) and admire his bike. More power to him. The bike was a perfect fit for him, even if it's easy to sneer at the pose factor. Would an MTS have served him better? I would say no, as it would have deprived him of the joy of looking at a bike he thought was beautiful, and would have given no advantage for the riding he did.

I'm not saying that's the case for the OP, who sounds like an experienced rider, but sometimes sportbikes are just what people like, even if it's not 'practical'. The reality is that most motorcycles are a far cry from purely practical in Canada, so the pose factor is high for all of us. Even if we seek out hyperpractical bikes like an NC700, that makes a big statement in and of itself. The problem comes when we try to project what we think is cool onto others...
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I'm not being defensive, you don't know what you`re talking about. Re read what you said, re read what i responded to in bold and then think about it. You'll note, i wasn't the only person that pointed it out either.

He doesn't want a ST, which again is fine and i even said so.
 
Evoex said:
I'm not being defensive, you don't know what you`re talking about. Re read what you said, re read what i responded to in bold and then think about it. You'll note, i wasn't the only person that pointed it out either.

He doesn't want a ST, which again is fine and i even said so.
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Just so we're crystal clear, you're saying that an S1000XR, a Super Duke, an old S1000R, a Ninja 1000, and an H2R all handle as well as a Tuono, a new Streetfighter, an RSV4 and a Panigale? In stock form?

And for the purpose of added clarity, by 'handling' are you referring to the ability to get around a smooth, twisty road at speed?
 
Priller said:
Just so we're crystal clear, you're saying that an S1000XR, a Super Duke, an old S1000R, a Ninja 1000, and an H2R all handle as well as a Tuono, a new Streetfighter, an RSV4 and a Panigale? In stock form?

And for the purpose of added clarity, by 'handling' are you referring to the ability to get around a smooth, twisty road at speed?
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just speculating as I havent ridden all of them, but id say the s1000r probably handles as well as a tuono, the previous gen superdukes? probably not

The new one? Maybe

 
Priller said:
Just so we're crystal clear, you're saying that an S1000XR, a Super Duke, an old S1000R, a Ninja 1000, and an H2R all handle as well as a Tuono, a new Streetfighter, an RSV4 and a Panigale? In stock form?

And for the purpose of added clarity, by 'handling' are you referring to the ability to get around a smooth, twisty road at speed?
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I think you can delete many of the bikes listed above as they make far too many handling concessions for comfort.
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wrong.

i won't comment on the rest as i have no first hand knowledge, but for the XR you`re out to lunch.
 
bigpoppa said:
just speculating as I havent ridden all of them, but id say the s1000r probably handles as well as a tuono, the previous gen superdukes? probably not

The new one? Maybe

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We're getting deep into subjective and speculative territory here, so it's easy to over-read into minor things, but I've looked at every supernaked test for the last few years, and have never seen the KTM turn a faster lap in a group test than the Tuono.

Sometimes the gap is small (tracks with slow corners that reward torque), sometimes the gap is big (faster corners help the Tuono), but it's always the Ducati or Tuono up top, KTM rounding out the podium, followed by the Z H2, S1000R, and/or the MT-10.

Granted, lap times aren't a pure measurement of handling, but considering the KTM's huge torque advantage, and the hp and brakes being mostly a wash, that's likely where the difference lies.

Add to that the comments of experienced road testers like Michael Neeves, who can ride these bikes far faster than I ever will, and while it may be very close, I believe the Tuono is the better handling bike.

Does that mean it's a better bike? Absolutely not. As we discussed when you were cross shopping the KTM, the Tuono has a different riding position that's less comfortable for many, and it has waaaay less torque. It's just pushed a little further up the 'sports' end of the spectrum than most nakeds bar the Streetfighter. For me (key words, those), the Streetfighter is too far up that spectrum, with a motor that's less fun on the road. It's much closer to a Panigale with flat bars, and can't really tap into its 200+ horses in a way that makes sense for me.
 
its just splitting hair at this point, any of the aforementioned bikes(with the exception of the zH2) will be brilliant everywhere, lapping within seconds of each other
 
bigpoppa said:
its just splitting hair at this point, any of the aforementioned bikes(with the exception of the zH2) will be brilliant everywhere, lapping within seconds of each other
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but to his point, some have to be better and the tuono has won year after year after year, street and track. which seeing as it's largely the rsv4 with flat bars and a tweaked engine it should be a scalpel.
 
Which naked is best when you get caught out in a rain storm?
It's a trick question: None of them.
 
bigpoppa said:
its just splitting hair at this point, any of the aforementioned bikes(with the exception of the zH2) will be brilliant everywhere, lapping within seconds of each other
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100% true. It's definitely shades of awesome. The Z H2 recently won (I think) Visor Down's hypernaked shootout because it was such a fun straight line bike and the power is hilarious.

But when the OP says he's trying to choose between a sportbike or a naked-as-close-as-possible-to-a-sportbike, and has zero desire to tour or do big miles, why wouldn't he get the one that's closest to his want list? Why make concessions to other things, however small, when he doesn't care about those things? It makes no sense.
 
01rc51 said:
No doubt its fully capable and can rip around. Just not the overall genre of bike I'm looking to make the move to. Looking for a smaller step in styling etc from what I have had for the last 23 years.
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Do it.
79fea98e9c16ad8e6c0bb3b3125ccfcf.jpg


Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
 
Priller said:
We're getting deep into subjective and speculative territory here, so it's easy to over-read into minor things, but I've looked at every supernaked test for the last few years, and have never seen the KTM turn a faster lap in a group test than the Tuono.

Sometimes the gap is small (tracks with slow corners that reward torque), sometimes the gap is big (faster corners help the Tuono), but it's always the Ducati or Tuono up top, KTM rounding out the podium, followed by the Z H2, S1000R, and/or the MT-10.

Granted, lap times aren't a pure measurement of handling, but considering the KTM's huge torque advantage, and the hp and brakes being mostly a wash, that's likely where the difference lies.

Add to that the comments of experienced road testers like Michael Neeves, who can ride these bikes far faster than I ever will, and while it may be very close, I believe the Tuono is the better handling bike.

Does that mean it's a better bike? Absolutely not. As we discussed when you were cross shopping the KTM, the Tuono has a different riding position that's less comfortable for many, and it has waaaay less torque. It's just pushed a little further up the 'sports' end of the spectrum than most nakeds bar the Streetfighter. For me (key words, those), the Streetfighter is too far up that spectrum, with a motor that's less fun on the road. It's much closer to a Panigale with flat bars, and can't really tap into its 200+ horses in a way that makes sense for me.
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I still remember going to the motorcycle show in toronto after a long days work and sitting on the tuono, my knees went NOPE!

If I was a track junkie chasing fractions of a second and built like a geisha maybe

but I wanted a crazy fun bike with comfy ergos and a v twin specifically so there was really only 1 choice
 
bigpoppa said:
I still remember going to the motorcycle show in toronto after a long days work and sitting on the tuono, my knees went NOPE!

If I was a track junkie chasing fractions of a second and built like a geisha maybe

but I wanted a crazy fun bike with comfy ergos and a v twin specifically so there was really only 1 choice
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Depends how you're built. I'm 6'2". 170lbs. Gangly. Fits me well. Very comfortable.

Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
 
bigpoppa said:
I still remember going to the motorcycle show in toronto after a long days work and sitting on the tuono, my knees went NOPE!
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After being used to the Tuono, getting on the RC51 was a bit of a shock. The lower bars were a given, but even the stock pegs are way higher and the tank is much fatter. Modern sportbikes are much better than older ones, I think. All depends on how you ride, though. Aside from ground clearance, high pegs also make hanging off and shifting weight around easier, so I'm happy to have them on the track bike...
bigpoppa said:
but I wanted a crazy fun bike with comfy ergos and a v twin specifically so there was really only 1 choice
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I seem to recall the only negative for you being looks. Has it grown on you at all? I like them much better now, maybe because I'm more used to the KTM design language. The look is unmistakably KTM, and is much more successful in my eyes at doing a futuristic, angular thing than the Kawasaki and Yamaha equivalents...
 
Priller said:
After being used to the Tuono, getting on the RC51 was a bit of a shock. The lower bars were a given, but even the stock pegs are way higher and the tank is much fatter. Modern sportbikes are much better than older ones, I think. All depends on how you ride, though. Aside from ground clearance, high pegs also make hanging off and shifting weight around easier, so I'm happy to have them on the track bike...

I seem to recall the only negative for you being looks. Has it grown on you at all? I like them much better now, maybe because I'm more used to the KTM design language. The look is unmistakably KTM, and is much more successful in my eyes at doing a futuristic, angular thing than the Kawasaki and Yamaha equivalents...
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eh its no MV agusta in the looks department, but I like the orange trellis frame I also like that its so bright and orange its very visible
 
bigpoppa said:
eh its no MV agusta in the looks department, but I like the orange trellis frame I also like that its so bright and orange its very visible
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Ha! Neither is the Tuono, to be fair. I like the look, but the most common criticism is that it looks dated. I think the KTM does a good job translating its function into form: it's an absolute sledgehammer of a motorcycle, and the design gets that across.
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