How about that | Page 12 | GTAMotorcycle.com

How about that

crankcall

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Its a silly conversation , Quebec applied leverage ( you dont go to the liqour store or pot shop) unless your vaxxed and the threat of taxation if you end up needing medical care, has people lining up for shots . Its getting the unvaxed into the herd.

JT will have a little announce today , maybe wipe a tear and we carry on.

Doug will say passports are a good start and now the mandates will follow , its politics, that's how it works. Once you cant go to a restaurant , bar , sporting event , movie , and then it EXPANDS to not getting on a golf course , ski hill, into a mall , on a domestic flight, or participation in group events the rest will get in line , or enjoy life as a hermit.
 

Delboy

Well-known member
I fundamentally believe that people should get vaccinated. I don’t believe that it will prevent you from getting Covid but I believe it can help reduce the severity of the symptoms. Take this with a grain of salt as I’m not a doctor (and I didn’t even stay at a Holiday Inn last night) so talk to your Doctor for medical advice.

My next door neighbor is a pulmonologist and specializes in respiratory tract diseases and infections told me that “This **** is like Herpes… It’s here to stay…” LOL

I’m not a big fan of Government mandated programs for three reasons.

  • They tend to be introduced with one group in the population who are unpopular, but mandates can quickly spread to others. You could easily make the same arguments for smokers, drug users, even motorcyclists as they tend to have a bigger impact on heath care services. Fat obese people with insulation resistance tend to be impacted most by covid. Are you going to force them to lose weight?

  • There are a number of groups using government mandated health programs for their own nefarious reasons. Its already fed into arguments in a number of initiatives to overturn Roe Vs Wade where the government should have the ability to mandate what happens to someones own body. That’s an extreme case but is frightening as if that’s overturned do we go back to back alley abortionists that could cost someone their life?

  • This also has not worked well in the past where societies have “othered” parts of their social structure leading to things like euthanasia and forced sterilization. Again, its an extreme example but it’s not without precedent, and a number cases could be sited that happened even within the last 100 years, and even in “civilized” societies like Western Europe, The Balkans, etc. This is an interesting speech that was made before Covid jump to the 7 minute mark…
 

nobbie48

Well-known member
Site Supporter
That styrene smell when you walk past anybody doing resin layups . Did you just do polyester and vinylesters ?
I’m using some epoxies right now , if you follow all the safety guidelines you gown, glove , mask , ventilate the space and roll it out with a 12ft extension pole , preferably through a window in another building.


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The warnings on the retail size packages are vague with epoxies and most chemicals. In reality they are sensitizers and after a certain number of exposures a person develops an allergy to the product. Depending on the person's body chemistry it can be sooner or later. WHMIS isn't required for retail sized packages.

I knew a dentist who was building an experimental aircraft using epoxy. He became sensitized and ended up much like you describe, barrier cream, gloves, respirator etc.

Not too many people would want a dentist with puss boils on his hands, reaching into their mouths. At dental rates an outbreak would be expensive.

I haven't the latest on styrenes. They used to be considered just a nuisance and if you couldn't stand the smell you got a different job. I still see photos of boat shops with hand layups being done with next to no PPE.

FWIW I have an epoxy pack somewhere with a warning to avoid skin contact. In the instructions it says to smooth the fillet of glue with your finger.
 

Wingboy

Well-known member
Moderator
Site Supporter
Call me an optimist, but i don't think Quebec's policies will happen. I think it's just a scare tactic that won't scare enough people.
 

GreyGhost

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Call me an optimist, but i don't think Quebec's policies will happen. I think it's just a scare tactic that won't scare enough people.
Even if they implement it, I expect a quick charter challenge and I don't think it would survive. As much as people bluster about the charter and their right to be protected, until now they have been wrong imo. I think this measure would get struck down (and does that trigger compensation for those that got vaccinated against their will? That number could be huge).
 
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nobbie48

Well-known member
Site Supporter
I fundamentally believe that people should get vaccinated. I don’t believe that it will prevent you from getting Covid but I believe it can help reduce the severity of the symptoms. Take this with a grain of salt as I’m not a doctor (and I didn’t even stay at a Holiday Inn last night) so talk to your Doctor for medical advice.

My next door neighbor is a pulmonologist and specializes in respiratory tract diseases and infections told me that “This **** is like Herpes… It’s here to stay…” LOL

I’m not a big fan of Government mandated programs for three reasons.

  • They tend to be introduced with one group in the population who are unpopular, but mandates can quickly spread to others. You could easily make the same arguments for smokers, drug users, even motorcyclists as they tend to have a bigger impact on heath care services. Fat obese people with insulation resistance tend to be impacted most by covid. Are you going to force them to lose weight?

  • There are a number of groups using government mandated health programs for their own nefarious reasons. Its already fed into arguments in a number of initiatives to overturn Roe Vs Wade where the government should have the ability to mandate what happens to someones own body. That’s an extreme case but is frightening as if that’s overturned do we go back to back alley abortionists that could cost someone their life?

  • This also has not worked well in the past where societies have “othered” parts of their social structure leading to things like euthanasia and forced sterilization. Again, its an extreme example but it’s not without precedent, and a number cases could be sited that happened even within the last 100 years, and even in “civilized” societies like Western Europe, The Balkans, etc. This is an interesting speech that was made before Covid jump to the 7 minute mark…
I watched the video. Since the speech is being translated it goes pretty slow and I found it more endurable by boosting the speed to X 1.75. I like the 11th commandment. Do not be indifferent.

You make valid points but as in most things people look at the symptoms instead of the disease. The governments need courage, intelligence, will power and self sacrifice to resolve the real issues instead of bandaging the symptoms. I have no reason to believe the governments have even one of the four requisites.

Look at obesity. How many people want to be fat?

Outside of a Sumo wrestler I can't think of a reason why person would want the issues that come with obesity. They include fat shaming, clothing fit issues, social exclusion, activity restrictions, prescription costs, joint pain, embarrassment, etc.

So why the obesity epidemic and what can the government do?

They can tax, punish and join in the shaming. The shaming will be done using politically correct words like weight challenged. The real problem is in reality education so that people understand why they are making the wrong choices. Opposing any educational efforts will be lobbyists and psychologists from the food industry so they can continue to force feed the population. They have billions of dollars at stake and will fight change to the bitter end.

Most diets are counter productive jokes, doing more harm than good. For decades Weight Watchers was owned by a food company. Talk about a conflict of interest.

I'm increasingly getting p***** seeing grocery stores super sizing snack items, 2 for $5 or $3 for one.

Instead of doing the right thing it's easier for the government to put the onus on the victim to sort out their life, ignoring the fact that the victim hasn't been given the tools to do the job.

On the abortion issue it's so easy to "blame the slut for not keeping her legs together" and she deserves to be burdened for the rest of her life. While at the same time every TV set and billboard on the planet seems to push hedonism without limits. I'm sure many shareholders of the "Get them drunk and careless" companies are also anti abortionists.

I'm pro vaccine and boosters but have no faith in our elected officials to screen the corrupt or inept from the systems. You might as well put a fox in the hen house to guard the chickens. What if the drug companies cranked out a report that said a small dose a month is a better choice than one a year. Oh wait, to minimize ripple effect let's make it once a week. If it gets to a pill, have one every morning. Kaching.

How do we restore critical thinking instead of relying on knee jerk reactions?

Critical thinking destroys profit.
 
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jc100

Well-known member
Call me an optimist, but i don't think Quebec's policies will happen. I think it's just a scare tactic that won't scare enough people.

Depends what they are thinking of implementing. I can see lots of different ways of “taxing” an unvaccinated choice. Required separate insurance for travel, stricter implementation of what you’re able to attend/visit/study without a vaccine. Lots of creative ways to do this.
 

GreyGhost

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Depends what they are thinking of implementing. I can see lots of different ways of “taxing” an unvaccinated choice. Required separate insurance for travel, stricter implementation of what you’re able to attend/visit/study without a vaccine. Lots of creative ways to do this.
Legault was talking like it was going to be added to your taxes. I don't think that would fly (especially with his stupid "significant" as that can be orders of magnitude different, this could easily force the poor to be vaccinated but let the rich do as they please). An airline requiring covid insurance or restricting you from visiting private places like restaurants should survive legal/charter scrutiny.
 

jc100

Well-known member
Legault was talking like it was going to be added to your taxes. I don't think that would fly (especially with his stupid "significant" as that can be orders of magnitude different, this could easily force the poor to be vaccinated but let the rich do as they please). An airline requiring covid insurance or restricting you from visiting private places like restaurants should survive legal/charter scrutiny.

I don’t think they would be able to tax in that way. Maybe they can add a tax incentive to the vaccinated that would effectively be a tax against the unvaxxed? That would probably fly. Like I say, tons of creative ways of doing this.
 

FullMotoJacket

Well-known member
Site Supporter
We don't tax people extra for having kids and sending them to public school, just like we don't give people tax rebates for not having kids and not sending them to public schools. Everyone pays into the system so they can use it as they need it.

Maybe we should, seeing how the system is being gamed. There’s a large ranch house I pass by on my way to work. It was previously owned by a musician. When I drive by now there’s 3 women at the end of the driveway with between 10-12 elementary school age children waiting for the school bus. Is that fair? 10 years ago my co worker who lived in South Caledon said that his kid’s Brampton high school no longer had football/soccer programs on account of the field was filled with portables, to offset the number of multi family homes and the disproportionate number of student going to the school. Is that fair? How do they increase the tax base to cover the influx without penalizing everyone?
 

d4rktrooper788

Well-known member
Maybe we should, seeing how the system is being gamed. There’s a large ranch house I pass by on my way to work. It was previously owned by a musician. When I drive by now there’s 3 women at the end of the driveway with between 10-12 elementary school age children waiting for the school bus. Is that fair? 10 years ago my co worker who lived in South Caledon said that his kid’s Brampton high school no longer had football/soccer programs on account of the field was filled with portables, to offset the number of multi family homes and the disproportionate number of student going to the school. Is that fair? How do they increase the tax base to cover the influx without penalizing everyone?

Well that's part of the social contract here in Canada, we all pay for things we might not personally need. Whether or not you agree with it that is the setup we have here.

Those people are committing some sort of fraud by lying on their census/property tax application about how many people are living there, which given that it's Brampton/Caledon, is not surprising. You've identified another reason our health services are so overstrained in this province: immigration. The feds are letting in record numbers of people, 60% or more of whom end up in the GTA. That's people who can draw on our shared social services but have never paid into them. Do you think Trudeau has increased healthcare transfer payments to compensate for that? Hell no.
 

bakaboy

Old, Slow and Grumpy
Site Supporter
The warnings on the retail size packages are vague with epoxies and most chemicals. In reality they are sensitizers and after a certain number of exposures a person develops an allergy to the product. Depending on the person's body chemistry it can be sooner or later. WHMIS isn't required for retail sized packages.

I knew a dentist who was building an experimental aircraft using epoxy. He became sensitized and ended up much like you describe, barrier cream, gloves, respirator etc.

Not too many people would want a dentist with puss boils on his hands, reaching into their mouths. At dental rates an outbreak would be expensive.

I haven't the latest on styrenes. They used to be considered just a nuisance and if you couldn't stand the smell you got a different job. I still see photos of boat shops with hand layups being done with next to no PPE.

FWIW I have an epoxy pack somewhere with a warning to avoid skin contact. In the instructions it says to smooth the fillet of glue with your finger.

It is my business of epoxies, urethanes and VE/PE and all the solvents that go with it. Health and safety is a daily conversation.
 

FullMotoJacket

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Well that's part of the social contract here in Canada, we all pay for things we might not personally need. Whether or not you agree with it that is the setup we have here.

Halton charges me a fee to put more than 2 garbage bags out at the curb. If they can do that, I don’t see how they can’t charge extra to put 12 kids out at the curb, too.

*EDIT*

Average Ontario household is 2.9 people. Factor in single parent households and that's a little under 2 kids per household average. That's an extra 10 kids put out to the curb, not 12 (the first 2 not needing tags).
 
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Mad Mike

Well-known member
They aren't though. Overall only 20% of people in the ICU are due to COVID, the rest are there for the usual reasons. Our healthcare system is so pathetic that it can't handle moderate increases in ICU bed occupancy. This was happening before the pandemic as well: 1, 2. The reality is that the government has been living beyond its means for quite awhile now and COVID has really exposed that.

Taxing the unvaccinated is a bad idea that only plays into the talking points of antivaxxers and their ilk. We don't tax people extra for having kids and sending them to public school, just like we don't give people tax rebates for not having kids and not sending them to public schools. Everyone pays into the system so they can use it as they need it.

Besides, you really do not want to invite the government into your life like this, because it will open the door to taxing every little unhealthy thing. I don't want to start paying a tax because I ride a motorcycle, or other nanny state type taxes on fast food, sugary drinks, etc. It's especially hypocritical when the government has a monopoly on selling literal poison (alcohol), which probably causes damage that will never be recouped by any amount of sin taxes.
Maybe I'm having trouble reading your graphs from the link you supplied... Perhaps you could shed more light on the data.

1642017701622.png
 

d4rktrooper788

Well-known member
Maybe I'm having trouble reading your graphs from the link you supplied... Perhaps you could shed more light on the data.

View attachment 52884

Sure. Your chart is under the "Hospitalized and ICU cases" heading, which is looking solely at people in hospital who have tested positive for COVID. If you click that little help icon next to the "Admitted for other reasons" button, it says "Individual was admitted to the hospital or ICU for reasons other than COVID-19, but also tested positive for COVID-19."

The graph I am referring to is this one, which is referring to all ICU occupants. That 57% is people there for the usual reasons (stroke, heart attacks, surgery, trauma, cancer, etc.) not related to COVID. The pie chart in your post is a subset of the 21% shown below.

1642021277351.png
 

caje

Well-known member
What about fat people?
Are we going to tax them too?

We already do - healthy food is generally exempt from GST while unhealthy food is fully taxed.

Pretty much everything unhealthy that the government doesn't want us to do is taxed. I don't necessarily agree with taxing people who aren't vaccinated, but this isn't a new idea and I don't buy the slippery slope arguments.
 

DownUnder

Well-known member
Sure. Your chart is under the "Hospitalized and ICU cases" heading, which is looking solely at people in hospital who have tested positive for COVID. If you click that little help icon next to the "Admitted for other reasons" button, it says "Individual was admitted to the hospital or ICU for reasons other than COVID-19, but also tested positive for COVID-19."

The graph I am referring to is this one, which is referring to all ICU occupants. That 57% is people there for the usual reasons (stroke, heart attacks, surgery, trauma, cancer, etc.) not related to COVID. The pie chart in your post is a subset of the 21% shown below.

View attachment 52887
Don't go confusing the math guy... lol ~10% of icu beds being taken by the unvaccinated.
 
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