Enough of COVID...what are you doing to the house? | Page 42 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Enough of COVID...what are you doing to the house?

Mad Mike

Well-known member
It is midpoint interesting on grade point as the front yard is 10' higher that the ground at the base of the garage I want 12' ceiling and a 8' upstairs if possible.

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That's room in roof trusses - nice because the floor joists are only 2x8 for a 28'span -- saves a few inches.

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Bit hard to see, but I dropped the grade by the height of the retaining wall on the right, about 24". Foundation wall is along the left of the pic. This let me use the average of the two grades to determine the 'height above grade' .
 

Scuba Steve

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Thanks those trusses look interesting I will ask about the height and grad at the building department as well having room up there would make a huge difference

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Mad Mike

Well-known member
Thanks those trusses look interesting I will ask about the height and grad at the building department as well having room up there would make a huge difference

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Called "Room in roof" trusses. All truss manufacturers make them, they are surprisingly cheap and they are great for big spans, and the truss companys stamp the floor and roof drawings for free. They also go up really fast, 2 framers did the whole roof system and floor on my garage, including 2 dormers, in 2 days - would have been <1 day if didn't have dormers. .
 

nobbie48

Well-known member
Site Supporter
One of my neighbours told me that the side split he has (very similar to ours) has a dead space below half the house which can be dug out and made into additional space...I haven't tried it. And when COVID subsides he invited me over to take a look. Basically he cut into the block in the laundry room, and dug out all the earth in that section. I'd be honest if I didn't admit that I'm tempted to take a look there! It's about 200sqft or so, but would add so much storage space to the house (not livable space).

A number of years ago I was testing a cable system at a condo in south Mississauga and was having trouble finding a missing access point in the parking garage. I eventually found an access hatch that once through got me into the equivalent of an apartment layout but without any services or a concrete floor. Management didn't know about it.

Due to it being off the garage it couldn't be made into a residence but would have made a great maintenance or storage area. I don't know if they ever did anything with it.
 

Lyndsay

Well-known member
Site Supporter
For 400sq your incremental costs would have been at least $14.5k.

$10k ($25sq) for the floor, $500 steel beam, $2k under floor insulation (code for basement), and the $2k for engineering is because the bldg department requires an engineer be on site when forming the floor.

ICF and a full dig are unnecessary expenses for a garage with no basement, necessary for one with - so the real incremental cost would be closer to 17k, still 3x or more costly than an above garage room.
Some of your assumptions regarding the building department don't apply here in South Frontenac. I paid nothing like $2K for the sheets of styrofoam I placed under the concrete. I agree that the full dig was added expense that's hard to quantify. I guess I needed to add the amount of extra concrete which I didn't take into account, so add another $2500 for concrete (20 X 20 X 1 ft) I still don't get anywhere near your numbers. Maybe it's the advantages of living in the woods and lower costs for a lot of stuff away from the GTA. Also, lots of the labour was done by me, so that wasn't factored in. If I had to pay someone to do it, maybe I wouldn't have liked the cost.
 

Trials

Well-known member
Thanks those trusses look interesting I will ask about the height and grad at the building department as well having room up there would make a huge difference

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If you design it right and spray foam insulate, you can turn those small attic spaces into room temperature storage areas ;)
that's what my wife did, she is a freak for storage spaces.
 

Trials

Well-known member
Holy is the water ever high right now :I need to build a small bridge.
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
If you want to cost a basement under a garage, here are the incremental cost items For a 20x20. Each item has a material and labour cost, materials are easy to calculate as the don’t vary much. Labour varies a lot based on local availability or trades.

  • Excavation and remove 10 yds fill
  • Block/form 200sq feet foundation wall
  • Dampproofing, 320sq’
  • Insulation
    • basement pad, R20 x 200sq’
    • under garage floor, R40 x 200sq’​
    • exterior walls R12 200sq’​
  • structural steel beam
  • engineered slab formed on site -or- prefab section slab 400sq’
The biggie is the slab for the garage floor. Forming and finishing a 20x20 slab that weighs 15 tons in the air is no easy task. If you could DIY forms, pour and finishing and find an engineer to sign off the design and build for free you’re still over $2500. Precast sections would be min $30 per square. R40 under that slab isn’t cheap either!
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
If you design it right and spray foam insulate, you can turn those small attic spaces into room temperature storage areas ;)
that's what my wife did, she is a freak for storage spaces.
The rafters are insulated right to the floor, we put kitchen lowers into the spaces inbetween.

Ended up with a 10x14 bedroom, 18x14 great room with full kitchenette. An RV size washroom 4x8 fit into one dormer, a small office desk into the other.
 

Scuba Steve

Well-known member
Site Supporter
The rafters are insulated right to the floor, we put kitchen lowers into the spaces inbetween.

Ended up with a 10x14 bedroom, 18x14 great room with full kitchenette. An RV size washroom 4x8 fit into one dormer, a small office desk into the other.
What is the ceiling height in the garage part?

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mimico_polak

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Frak I'd love to do that to my attic...Not sure if it's possible. Only entrance is through one closet, and the other entrance is through another closet. So much dead and unused space there...Actually I've got 2 as we have a side split so 2 different heights of attics.

As for work around the house....FINALLY FINALLY FINALLY finished the garage insulation, drywall, painting, and building shelving and standard bench to work on. Tomorrow I'm doing winter tires and then organizing the mofo. Pics to follow!
 

GreyGhost

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Frak I'd love to do that to my attic...Not sure if it's possible. Only entrance is through one closet, and the other entrance is through another closet. So much dead and unused space there...Actually I've got 2 as we have a side split so 2 different heights of attics.

As for work around the house....FINALLY FINALLY FINALLY finished the garage insulation, drywall, painting, and building shelving and standard bench to work on. Tomorrow I'm doing winter tires and then organizing the mofo. Pics to follow!
Conversion of attic to storage(or a room) is somewhere between impossible and ill-advised. The floor of the attic was not designed to take much weight (just the insulation and drywall). It is amazing how much weight you can build up in a space once it has a floor. Mike did it the easy way and had the trusses designed to take the weight (and at the same time arranged to maximize useful space).
 

george__

Well-known member
Running out of things to do in the houseeeeeeee I don't own.

Thought of renovating the basement over the winter which would include bashing down some walls and then got into huge crap with my parents when I told them. :(

😥

I had their best intentions, fun surprise your basement looks sparkly new.

Oppsie x 292030
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
Frak I'd love to do that to my attic...Not sure if it's possible. Only entrance is through one closet, and the other entrance is through another closet. So much dead and unused space there...Actually I've got 2 as we have a side split so 2 different heights of attics.

As for work around the house....FINALLY FINALLY FINALLY finished the garage insulation, drywall, painting, and building shelving and standard bench to work on. Tomorrow I'm doing winter tires and then organizing the mofo. Pics to follow!
You can't really do it if your house has engineered trusses, they are designed to carry about 10lbs/sq' if I recall correctly. The main issue is load the floor can handle. If you have a stick framed roof, you might have 2x6 joists holding up the top floor ceiling, if so there is a chance you could finish some storage space up there. You would need to measure the span, joist height and spacing then pull up a span table to calculate the max floor load.

I love the room in roof engineered joists, I have used them 3 times - twice in garages and once in a second floor addition. They are about the cheapest approach to an addition I can think of. You can get massive rooms too!
 

mimico_polak

Well-known member
Site Supporter
@GreyGhost and @Mad Mike thanks for the explanation. It's a good lot of space, and we are considering expanding the house within the next 5-10 years anyway as funds allow. For now there's not much being done up there, but nice to see the options available and most importantly attainable at a relatively affordable place. The trusses that @Mad Mike could possibly be used to just lift up the roof a few feet and make a livable space without doing much else. We have a solid block foundation and everyone I've talked to, and every similar house I've seen to ours has done the addition without much issue structure wise.
 

Lyndsay

Well-known member
Site Supporter
If you want to cost a basement under a garage, here are the incremental cost items For a 20x20. Each item has a material and labour cost, materials are easy to calculate as the don’t vary much. Labour varies a lot based on local availability or trades.

  • Excavation and remove 10 yds fill
  • Block/form 200sq feet foundation wall
  • Dampproofing, 320sq’
  • Insulation
    • basement pad, R20 x 200sq’
    • under garage floor, R40 x 200sq’​
    • exterior walls R12 200sq’​
  • structural steel beam
  • engineered slab formed on site -or- prefab section slab 400sq’
The biggie is the slab for the garage floor. Forming and finishing a 20x20 slab that weighs 15 tons in the air is no easy task. If you could DIY forms, pour and finishing and find an engineer to sign off the design and build for free you’re still over $2500. Precast sections would be min $30 per square. R40 under that slab isn’t cheap either!
If you had originally excavated 4 ft to get your footings for a normal garage, the additional excavation should be (20 X20X 5)/27 or 74 cu yd by my calculations. Damproofing and insulation included with ICF. Going with blocks or traditional poured concrete may be cheaper, but then, as you note, additional costs for those. What is the steel beam for? I used a heavy pan specified by the engineer, and built temporary supports under the pan, left in place for s few weeks, until the concrete was properly cured. The slab was about 11" thick at the back and about 8" thick at the front. Technically this is all additional cost as the floor under the room would normally be the floor in the garage. I'm not trying to be dismissive, just making sure those contemplating such a thing know the options.

I put a bit of insulation under the slab, to keep the room warm, but not R40. A few inches of sprayfoam and then stuffed the gap with fibreglass. I don't notice that room as colder than others, and don't really notice the garage as warmer than my garage at the old place. R40 would have been nice, but i would have lost some height in the room.
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
@Lyndsay

There are always ways to cut costs. For anyone contemplating doing this, compliance with building codes is essential. You saved by cutting corners on building code, and your inspector cut you slack on engineering. Not many places where you can get away with that.

Anyone contemplating this type of build should consider compliance. You can’t make the dig, insulation, foundation materials free. Slabs need an engineer stamp, casting an insitu slab in the air requires an engineer on site to approve forms, rebar placement, cement specs and the pour itself.

The reason for a steel beam is just time and cost. You don’t have to wait a month after pouring the basement floor to support form work on the garage slab, you don’t need to frame disposable support walls. The beam also simplifies and reduces costs of under slab insulation and ceilings.
 

GreyGhost

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Saw a wildfire lift yesterday. Seems like a cool system. It's a drive-on lift so super simple but it has some cool things I havent seen before. There is a secondary 4500 lb lift on the main ramps so you can lift one end of the vehicle to work on wheels or suspension. It's a four post but has casters so you can move it around when all the way down in case vehicles change or garage layout needs a tweak. I was thinking about a two post, but this seems like a better option. They also sell center platform fillers if you wanted to put a bunch of bikes up.
 

george__

Well-known member
Saw a wildfire lift yesterday. Seems like a cool system. It's a drive-on lift so super simple but it has some cool things I havent seen before. There is a secondary 4500 lb lift on the main ramps so you can lift one end of the vehicle to work on wheels or suspension. It's a four post but has casters so you can move it around when all the way down in case vehicles change or garage layout needs a tweak. I was thinking about a two post, but this seems like a better option. They also sell center platform fillers if you wanted to put a bunch of bikes up.

For something like this do you need to make the concrete thicker inside the garage?
 

GreyGhost

Well-known member
Site Supporter
For something like this do you need to make the concrete thicker inside the garage?
I wouldnt be too concerned with a 4 post. The floor loading isnt grossly different than with a vehicle. Slope may be an issue with a four post. I havent looked at how wildfire solved that (my guess is you adjust cables for level platform on tilted legs). It's rating for 9000 lbs at full height, the most I would ever put on it would be ~5000.

I know people that have successfully installed 2 post into a three inch slab (they also made their own scissor trusses to gain height). That scared the $&#%# out of me, I would not walk into that garage. Lift manufacturers will tell you what they want for slab.

I dont know the thickness of slab at my house but I put in some 6" anchors and hadnt come out the back yet so it's more than 6 for some reason.
 

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