Enough of COVID...what are you doing to the house?

[GreyGhost]

For a fridge in a garage. Most unheated garages never actually get down to the outside ambient temperature around here. It feels damn cold (as you expect warmer, sort of like apply brakes that do not work it feels like you sped up...) but even over short bursts of uber cold temps like today the garage is likely not far off zero unless it is full of holes. Attached will be better than detached of course, sun load etc.. The fridge is pretty insulated so its internal temp will likely be OK over short periods it just stops running. BTW if you are worried about it modify the fridge to have a incandescent light on a thermostat that will keep the fridge portion above freezing.... people store paint like this in sheds etc. Just make sure the bulb and the cooling are not fighting each other....

From an engineering perspective there is no reason a fridge could not act as a heat pump internally if a manufacturer designed it that way... to be deployed in cold temps.

A normal bar fridge came in the shed with our house. It probably doesn't like being frozen but I'm not carrying it inside for the winter. It's probably 10 years old and still works so I guess it's fine.

Friends use old fridges with a lightbulb for paint. I haven't seen anyone wire up a control to have the lightbulb in a working fridge (although it would work if you got the controls setup properly).

I agree, it is technically possible for a fridge to be a heatpump but I can't imagine any manufacturer would bother. You could build a control for a peltier cooler that would flip between heat and cool as necessary and that should work well in the winter. May not be as cold as you would like in the summer though.

As for things freezing in the fridge, it's a self perpetuating problem. If the temp in the shed is above the setpoint, the fridge will run and warm up the shed which will require the fridge to run more which warms up the shed more. If the temp in the shed is below the setpoint, the fridge will not run and the temp will keep dropping to match ambient.

 

[GreyGhost]

The freezer we bought is rated for 'garage use', whatever that means. The fridge is a standard one.

We're considering to move it into the house, but as you mention @backmarkerducati the garage is maintained around 0-2C typically. I know there's a small air leak around the door so need to work on that. But outside of that, I expect the fridge to work properly once the temps go up. Everything that was still cold was moved to the garage rated freezer.

Garage ready seems like mostly marketing and maybe some work to ensure it survives in high temperatures. For low temperatures, they appear to rely on insulation and not active heating.

What Is a Garage Ready Freezer? | Maytag

If you’re thinking of adding a freezer to your garage, make sure it’s garage ready, especially if you have hot summers, cold winters or the area is unfinished.

www.maytag.com

"Freezers typically work harder than usual in the heat as the compressor cools the freezer’s internal environment. The opposite is true in the extreme cold as the compressor will simply not kick on until the external temperature is higher than what the internal freezer temperature is set to. Garage ready freezers are built to handle extreme hot or cold environments.

Some freezer models, like this Garage Ready in Freezer Mode chest freezer from Maytag, offer a dependable compressor, thick insulation and a triple sealed gasket to help lock in optimal temperatures."

 

[mimico_polak]

So what I'm reading...is I shouldn't really be too worried at this point in time?

 

[mimico_polak]

So...electrical. Considering the poopshow that Kevin has made of the insulation, and possible electrical mess within the house, I'd like to pick the brain of the collective here.

I'm planning on starting insulation process for the entire house room by room. Send the wife and kids up to the cottage for a week, and then work to rip out the old drywall, frame, insulate, and re-drywall each room.

As part of that, I'd like to re-wire the house as well so that it's properly done once and for all. I am considering running conduits from the panel (in the garage) along the wall of the entire length of the side wall as each bedroom is on this wall.

Something like this...



There's block wall, and a walkway b/w the Garage and the +1 room.

Does it make sense to run conduit for each room separately? Or just wire from the panel to each individual bedroom?

@SunnY S or any other electricians, if you can comment I'd highly appreciate it.

 

[GreyGhost]

So...electrical. Considering the poopshow that Kevin has made of the insulation, and possible electrical mess within the house, I'd like to pick the brain of the collective here.

I'm planning on starting insulation process for the entire house room by room. Send the wife and kids up to the cottage for a week, and then work to rip out the old drywall, frame, insulate, and re-drywall each room.

As part of that, I'd like to re-wire the house as well so that it's properly done once and for all. I am considering running conduits from the panel (in the garage) along the wall of the entire length of the side wall as each bedroom is on this wall.

Something like this...

View attachment 53025

There's block wall, and a walkway b/w the Garage and the +1 room.

Does it make sense to run conduit for each room separately? Or just wire from the panel to each individual bedroom?

@SunnY S or any other electricians, if you can comment I'd highly appreciate it.

If you are going to run conduit, make sure you run conduit that is allowed inside your house and run wiring that is allowed to be in conduit. I've seen far too many outdoor runs of conduit with romex or exposed PVC indoors. Both no bueno.

I would not run conduit to every room. Drives the cost way up and little benefit. I would probably run larger conduit to each space (maybe linen closets on each floor and the attic) to allow future non-power uses such as ethernet, cameras, etc. Make sure you have a plan on how to get a line through. Conduit without a pull string is not fun.

 

[backmarkerducati]

I would not bother with the conduit, just run NMSC to each room. More cost, more work, little if any advantage.

It is nice to have each room on its own circuit as it reduces future head scratching... Some like to have lighting separate so a trip does not make the room dark, I am not one of these...

Permit or no? Code will require CAFI breakers for all of these. Permit will require the walls are left open for rough-in inspection....

 

[GreyGhost]

I would not bother with the conduit, just run NMSC to each room. More cost, more work, little if any advantage.

It is nice to have each room on its own circuit as it reduces future head scratching... Some like to have lighting separate so a trip does not make the room dark, I am not one of these...

Permit or no? Code will require CAFI breakers for all of these.

Isn't everything arcfault now (with only a few exceptions)? Good thing he has that juicy LOC. A panel full of arcfault breakers will hurt.

 

[mimico_polak]

I would do it with a permit because I want the house PROPERLY wired.

An option was to go outside, and run it outside, but not sure it's the best route. Another option is to run up to the attic, and run it through there to each room independently.

I'd like each house on a separate circuit, and install a 60A sub-panel in the laundry room that will feed the other half of the house.

 

[backmarkerducati]

Isn't everything arcfault now (with only a few exceptions). Good thing he has that juicy LOC. A panel full of arcfault breakers will hurt.

Yes pretty much. Not sure on the latest, latest code but for my build everything 20A and under with the exception of smoke alarms, fridge and boiler/furnace.

My question is more about permit or not.....

 

[GreyGhost]

I would do it with a permit because I want the house PROPERLY wired.

An option was to go outside, and run it outside, but not sure it's the best route. Another option is to run up to the attic, and run it through there to each room independently.

I'd like each house on a separate circuit, and install a 60A sub-panel in the laundry room that will feed the other half of the house.

You want to do it with a permit in a week with only you and your dad? Seems wildly optimistic as you need to tear it all apart, wire it all, get it inspected and then put it back together. Inspection ruins doing each room sequentially.

 

[mimico_polak]

Isn't everything arcfault now (with only a few exceptions)? Good thing he has that juicy LOC. A panel full of arcfault breakers will hurt.

My buddy set up arc fault outside of the panel. Ran the wire to the arc fault switch, and then continue on to the rest of the house from there.

EDIT: A week per room. If it takes 2 weeks, wife just gets to stay at the cottage longer. She can be home and we have space down there to sleep for a week or two without issue. Just easier when the kids are gone.

 

[GreyGhost]

Which way is the roof sloped on the addition MP? JT may chip in $5K for solar. If you are already into permits, electrical and having the house opened up, it would be a good time to install it.

 

[backmarkerducati]

I would do it with a permit because I want the house PROPERLY wired.

An option was to go outside, and run it outside, but not sure it's the best route. Another option is to run up to the attic, and run it through there to each room independently.

I'd like each house on a separate circuit, and install a 60A sub-panel in the laundry room that will feed the other half of the house.

I just did mine, I will have final once the current COVID numbers break. We ran everything in the basement (pulled ceiling down or made holes). Up from there. I picked one location to get to the second floor and ran all second floor circuits through there, luckily we had a kneewall to get into the space below the roof to run there. Good right angle drill is key. I also used a 5 foot long flex bit in places.

Glad to give you any info, or once we are passed COVID arrange to come by and see how I did it....

 

[GreyGhost]

My buddy set up arc fault outside of the panel. Ran the wire to the arc fault switch, and then continue on to the rest of the house from there.

EDIT: A week per room. If it takes 2 weeks, wife just gets to stay at the cottage longer. She can be home and we have space down there to sleep for a week or two without issue. Just easier when the kids are gone.

Are you sure about that? I've never heard of external arc fault. Did he install one 200A arc fault for the whole house or were these inline devices for each circuit?

You are getting an electrical inspection every week? I thought they charged for them? I could be wrong.

 

[backmarkerducati]

My buddy set up arc fault outside of the panel. Ran the wire to the arc fault switch, and then continue on to the rest of the house from there.

EDIT: A week per room. If it takes 2 weeks, wife just gets to stay at the cottage longer. She can be home and we have space down there to sleep for a week or two without issue. Just easier when the kids are gone.

Just remember the permit will come with two inspections in the cost, rough-in and final.

The ESA inspector is going to need to see the wiring with the walls open where it is not fished. So the drywall etc. will be open until the entire rough-in is done or you pay for multiple visits... might make it hard to do in phases.

 

[backmarkerducati]

Are you sure about that? I've never heard of external arc fault. Did he install one 200A arc fault for the whole house or were these inline devices for each circuit?

You are getting an electrical inspection every week? I thought they charged for them? I could be wrong.

They make arc-fault receptacles that like a GFCI can protect everything downstream. In this case, as I understand the code, the cable must be protected to this location so it is not as easy as installing one in the room and running NMSC to it....

Easier IMO to just install them in the panel.

 

[mimico_polak]

Are you sure about that? I've never heard of external arc fault. Did he install one 200A arc fault for the whole house or were these inline devices for each circuit?

You are getting an electrical inspection every week? I thought they charged for them? I could be wrong.

Good questions to which I haven't gotten to that part yet as I'm still very early in this process. It may be simpler to just do the whole side of the house at once and be done with it. Band-aid style.

The addition may not happen as the current price is way beyond my LOC after a deeper discussion with the Modular folks (does anyone know a solid builder to frame / roof the addition?)

Solar...not sure I want to go that route. My green buddies are all over it, but a 10-15 year payback doesn't really interest me.

Thanks for the offer @backmarkerducati. Can't go through the basement as under the garage is earth. So need to go up and across. There is wiring through the garage to the second half of the house, but I may cut all those off, and do the basement, kitchen, and dining room from the 60A panel directly.

 

[mimico_polak]

They make arc-fault receptacles that like a GFCI can protect everything downstream. In this case, as I understand the code, the cable must be protected to this location so it is not as easy as installing one in the room and running NMSC to it....

Easier IMO to just install them in the panel.

This is what my buddy did! Just couldn't remember how to describe it as it's been a while.

 

[backmarkerducati]

snip....

Thanks for the offer @backmarkerducati. Can't go through the basement as under the garage is earth. So need to go up and across. There is wiring through the garage to the second half of the house, but I may cut all those off, and do the basement, kitchen, and dining room from the 60A panel directly.

Just inverted, run up to attic and drop them down, stills works if you have access.....

BTW did you do the 200 amp panel or could it be a no-permit Kevin, could be a consideration if so?

 

[mimico_polak]

Just inverted, run up to attic and drop them down, stills works if you have access.....

BTW did you do the 200 amp panel or could it be a no-permit Kevin, could be a consideration if so?

The panel is 100% legal and permitted. I was talking about it and deciding deciding.

Went to BC for 17 days and came back to a panel. Wife called my dad and they organized everything as a late 40th bday gift for me. She knew I wanted it so got it done while I was away. That’s when we realized we have 2 layers of drywall.

I’ve got the approvals and everything here.

EDIT: Do I even need an electrician to do this work? Or can I run the cables and as long as it passes inspection...should be good no?