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Coronavirus

Roadghost

Well-known member
What about the Italian government then? They apparently had cases of Coronavirus in November but didn’t realize.
No government took this seriously until too late. None. Not the Chinese, Europeans, Canadians or Americans. Remember how offended people were when Trump stopped all flights to China? They were all so scared of being accused of racism and overreaction that they dragged their feet. Now we have a huge mess.
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
... :| we don't usually open with baton and shield wielding troops, that's a different country.
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Standoff with G20 Zombie in Toronto (or are they guarding the Trump Tower?)
 

油井緋色

Well-known member
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I am. They had a chance at stopping this ****, and ****** around before their major clampdown.
WHO also shares some of that blame. They weren't forceful enough in their warnings, and now they 'did everything we could'. But that's also to be put on governments around the world that didn't listen.

Lots of blame to go around, but the next few weeks are critical if we want to get this thing under control.
Blame doesn't matter imo. If anything, Canada and the US will use China as a scapegoat and all this will do is cause a rise in racism which doesn't help anyone.

Both Taiwan and Hong Kong have done a far better job than us and both are far closer to China. Canada's slowness to react is fucking absurd. I thought we were better than HK and Taiwan but I guess not.

I'm gonna identify as Taiwanese for now lol

No government took this seriously until too late. None. Not the Chinese, Europeans, Canadians or Americans. Remember how offended people were when Trump stopped all flights to China? They were all so scared of being accused of racism and overreaction that they dragged their feet. Now we have a huge mess.
Look up Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore.
 
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killvino

Well-known member
No government took this seriously until too late. None. Not the Chinese, Europeans, Canadians or Americans. Remember how offended people were when Trump stopped all flights to China? They were all so scared of being accused of racism and overreaction that they dragged their feet. Now we have a huge mess.
Look into Taiwan's efforts, they had the best and ideal government reaction to this. Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong and Singapore put measures in place and flattened the curve. All of these places had cases before Europe and well before North America but their numbers are much lower.
 

backmarkerducati

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We can judge our progress by comparing to the US...if we are doing as well we should have roughly 10% of the cases they have as we are roughly 10% of the size. 80 some odd percent of Candians live along the US border, Toronto is the forth or fifth largest city in NA... If we are less than 10% we are doing better, more than 10% worse...

Right now they are over 65,000, some say 70,000+, we are in the mid 3,000 range...

As for the military, there are 25K cops in Ontario and something like 65,000 country wide. We have ~100,000 in the military (excluding civilians), ~70K regular and ~30k reserve. How many of them are "infantry" as they would have the equipment and training in theory, well about 42K, 23K regular and 19K reserve.

So.... all said and done while they can back up the police locally in an emergency, they just don't have the numbers to make a huge impact country wide.
 

backmarkerducati

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Once something like this is out of the bag being totally isolated from it is a bad thing. The indigenous population of North and South America were totally isolated from Smallpox etc., how did that work out for them.... Eventually it gets everywhere...

That is why at the end of the day it is about controlling the rate, not really about totally stopping it.

BTW the southern hemisphere is now starting to see an upswing as they go into fall, a lot of experts are saying expect a decline in rates in summer here, back in the fall...
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
Blame doesn't matter imo. I...
Not so sure I agree with that. Without blame, there is no accountability. The root cause of this pandemic is thought to be twofold 1) Chinese wet market practices, in particular animal handling and consumption of wild/exotic animals. 2) Concealment/coverup of the Wuhan epidemic until carriers distributed the virus across a range that resulted in a pandemic.

Now, that has happened twice with the SARS virus, -- in 2003 with CARS-Cov and in 2020 with COVID19. Both from the same origin, both allowed to spread on carriers to the point of seeding a pandemic.

Does the world let this happen in China a third time? Or do we hold China accountable to some global health and safety standard to make sure it they minimize the risk?
 

GreyGhost

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Once something like this is out of the bag being totally isolated from it is a bad thing. The indigenous population of North and South America were totally isolated from Smallpox etc., how did that work out for them.... Eventually it gets everywhere...

That is why at the end of the day it is about controlling the rate, not really about totally stopping it.

BTW the southern hemisphere is now starting to see an upswing as they go into fall, a lot of experts are saying expect a decline in rates in summer here, back in the fall...
Well the upside is any oscillation should be substantially lower than the first one. In all liklihood, we won't be at herd immunity but having a decent percentage of the population temporarily immune should drop R significantly.
 

油井緋色

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Not so sure I agree with that. Without blame, there is no accountability. The root cause of this pandemic is thought to be twofold 1) Chinese wet market practices, in particular animal handling and consumption of wild/exotic animals. 2) Concealment/coverup of the Wuhan epidemic until carriers distributed the virus across a range that resulted in a pandemic.

Now, that has happened twice with the SARS virus, -- in 2003 with CARS-Cov and in 2020 with COVID19. Both from the same origin, both allowed to spread on carriers to the point of seeding a pandemic.

Does the world let this happen in China a third time? Or do we hold China accountable to some global health and safety standard to make sure it they minimize the risk?
Except blame can be shared on literally everyone. Italy's government was ****. Our government is actually ****. US is also ****. And instead of minimizing the impact on the respective countries, they spent most of their time laughing at people wearing masks and blaming China. And now we get more racism.

**** like this happens in every country. Everybody needs a scapegoat because we're pieces of ****. Instead of focusing on the scapegoat, how about we focus on fixing the problem first and then how to prevent it?

I mean Taiwan, and Hong Kong as a nation hate Chinese more than Canada or the US does. I'm sure they've already taken their stab at China. But look at their #s compared to the US and Canada. If we want to play the blame game for accountability, do it AFTER we've flattened the curve locally.

Frankly I don't blame China. I blame Canada because **** happens, we need to respond to it, and we failed.
 

regder

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Brian P

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What about the Italian government then? They apparently had cases of Coronavirus in November but didn’t realize.
The scientists who are supposed to know about this stuff (and I will trust them, over any of the media and politicians), have evidently traced the initial jump from animals to human to the third week of November 2019, and the first person to show symptoms to early December. China reported "a cluster of cases of pneumonia of unknown origin" to the WHO on 31 December, and by mid January 2020, Chinese scientists had supplied the world with the DNA sequence.

I will believe the collective opinion of the scientists. This timeline is also pretty consistent with what we know of the spread of this virus since then. Had the initial jump to humans happened sooner and caught hold sooner, this whole timeline would have been shifted earlier by pretty close to the same amount.

Bottom line, Italy didn't have cases of this virus in November 2019 because it hadn't made the jump to humans yet and the first person who caught it wouldn't have gotten to the point of spreading it yet.

Wuhan has many international businesses; it is entirely possible that a few cases leaked out in December 2019 after it started spreading and before anyone realised what it was.

Although the initial response of the Chinese authorities wasn't perfect ... no country's initial response to this virus was perfect, some better than others, South Korea and Taiwan and Japan appear to have done well. Italy's initial response can probably be forgiven because they were essentially the first country outside China to deal with this. Spain waited too long. The USA was in denial for too long. Remains to be seen how we'll do, but so far it seems about as well as can be expected. Not perfect ... in view of how fast the situation changes, that's impossible anyhow.
 

backmarkerducati

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A friend has (now in some cases had) friends and family back in Wuhan. When we first started hearing about it here in January he was messaging them and they told him it was western propaganda, a couple of weeks later they were in full panic. He lost family and friends to it.

Given the timelines while everyone could have done more we are talking weeks in response time differences.

As I noted before though, humans cannot prevent something like this from spreading entirely once it is out of the bag, we can only control the rate of spread...

Right now based on the 10:1 population ratio of US vs Canada we are doing comparably well as the cases are ~20:1.

It has also had higher spread rates in some countries due to cultural close contact like kissing people on the cheek etc.
 

PrivatePilot

Ironus Butticus
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I won't put too much into this rumour, but our neighbour's son is going to RMC in Kingston. They've been (apparently) given notice to prepare for deployment in the GTA to enforce the 'lockdown'. Not sure how much faith to put into it, but makes sense to bring in the reserves and cadets to keep an eye out.
My daughters BF is military and was just given 10 days leave.

One of my last days working before I went off with this stupid cough I made a delivery (just some storage and office stuff) to the armoury in downtown Oshawa and it was otherwise empty and quiet.

I wouldn't read much into these "rumours".
 

PrivatePilot

Ironus Butticus
Site Supporter
IMG_2441.jpg

Came across this photo I snapped at a doctors office in early January this year. At the time I thought it was funny as it reminded me of the game "Plague, Inc" that I used to play and I'm sure some here will know.
 

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