Canada Votes 2019

[J_F]

anyone could have balanced the fed budget the way Chretien/Martin did it
raise taxes and massive cuts to provincial transfer payments

the provinces and municipalities got stuck trying to figure out a way to make it work
Harris did it in Ontario with a massive restructuring of municipalities and cuts to everything

municipal governments did it by cutting programs
dreaming up user fees for basic services and huge property tax hikes

so yeah, Chretien/Martin are to be congratulated for passing the buck down the line

 

[jc100]

I’m not that fixated on balanced budgets. Some debt is fine to carry. It’s what you do with it that counts.

 

[FullMotoJacket]

Some debt is fine to carry. It’s what you do with it that counts.

We are in dire need of a $150M Canoeing for Everyone program.

 

[jc100]

We are in dire need of a $150M Canoeing for Everyone program.

My case in point. Dumb “buy a vote” initiatives like that but then again, every party has their own bribery points.

 

[Evoex]

I’m not that fixated on balanced budgets. Some debt is fine to carry. It’s what you do with it that counts.

quantify some, because so far i haven't seen much from you on the opposite end of the pendulum we are are on. At what point do you just say enough?

 

[jc100]

quantify some, because so far i haven't seen much from you on the opposite end of the pendulum we are are on. At what point do you just say enough?

When the economy looks like it’s going down the shitter. Right now it doesn’t look that way.

 

[Evoex]

When the economy looks like it’s going down the shitter. Right now it doesn’t look that way.

Interesting.

So fun facts;

Right now Canada spends more on the interest payments on our debt then say military spending, or the canada child benefit program.

Current debt: 695 billion
Daily accrual: 54 million a day
Yearly interest: 26.2 billion

But let's keeping running defecits into oblivion with an economy that 'everyone' agrees is doing well.

That tech/research point you`re making, how much could we re-invest into that market if we weren't paying over 2 billion a month in interest payments?

Liberal plan: add another 94+ billion over 4 years onto that debt.

 

[jc100]

Interesting.

So fun facts;

Right now Canada spends more on the interest payments on our debt then say military spending, or the canada child benefit program.

Current debt: 695 billion
Daily accrual: 54 million a day
Yearly interest: 26.2 billion

But let's keeping running defecits into oblivion with an economy that 'everyone' agrees is doing well.

That tech/research point you`re making, how much could we re-invest into that market if we weren't paying over 2 billion a month in interest payments?

Liberal plan: add another 94+ billion over 4 years onto that debt.

Interesting fact too....the economy is doing well and jobless rates are low. Maybe the two are connected?

Would you be happy with balancing the budget IF that meant austerity measures kicking in to affect unemployment rates and the economy?

See, it’s just not that simple.

 

[Mad Mike]

Sure. Harper muzzled govt scientists (particularly climate and agro) and cut funding from NSERC towards some valuable programs in universities. The emphasis changed to applied science (tech transfer etc) but funds were not increased. New faculty hiring went nowhere so promising young researchers left the country taking their ideas with them. The thing is applied science comes from basic science and canada was always a few steps behind on the applied side anyway. Basic science got a boost under the libs, not enough but something at least.

Speculate to accumulate. The cons generally don’t believe in that, they are happy to keep the business we already have, not encourage the cutting edge business we could have.

I’m biased, this is my area and generally Canada plays second fiddle to everywhere else but we shouldn’t have to. We have smart people. We just need other smart people to invest in them and encourage them to the betterment of our society.

I used to work for one of the largest biotech companies in North America. It was an Ontario origin, Quebec based company and it was one of many. Those are mostly all gone now (risky business) and they haven’t been replaced. Now canada is a world leader in generic medicine production but generics have already had the R&D done elsewhere. We remanufacture pharmaceuticals. Nothing ground breaking about that though. We are mostly OK at what we do, but we could be a lot better.

The economic benefits of shift from public to private financing is undeniable -- Canada has so much investment into tech today that they can't fill the positions. Even the current Liberal gov't recognized the focus on private sector partnership yeilds the best return for Canadians, most of their nef funding heads that way today.

Partnerships with private investment drives results based research, not scholarly boondoggling. If you're still unsure -- do a quick google search on research investment in Canada.

September brought over $1.4 billion in international ...

Report: Canadian tech investment hits record $1.3 billion CAD ...

Report: Canadian tech raised record $4.6 billion CAD in VC ...

As for smart people, today that's one of the single most pressing problems, Universities are pumping STEMers out at record rates and there are still not enough people for employers. With potential economic gains, you're also seeing a dramatic increase in international partnerships, particularly in the green energy / climate change sectors.

Turning back to the old model? Not likely.

 

[jc100]

The economic benefits of shift from public to private financing is undeniable -- Canada has so much investment into tech today that they can't fill the positions. Even the current Liberal gov't recognized the focus on private sector partnership yeilds the best return for Canadians, most of their nef funding heads that way today.

Partnerships with private investment drives results based research, not scholarly boondoggling. If you're still unsure -- do a quick google search on research investment in Canada.

September brought over $1.4 billion in international ...

Report: Canadian tech investment hits record $1.3 billion CAD ...

Report: Canadian tech raised record $4.6 billion CAD in VC ...

As for smart people, today that's one of the single most pressing problems, Universities are pumping STEMers out at record rates and there are still not enough people for employers. With potential economic gains, you're also seeing a dramatic increase in international partnerships, particularly in the green energy / climate change sectors.

Turning back to the old model? Not likely.

Sorry Mike but that’s just not correct. Basic research is what drives innovation. Look at any Nobel prize that has led to a revolution in the area. Look at CRISPR gene editing, look at carbon nanomaterials, new structures for antibiotics, molecular computing. They all started with basic research. Avoid it and all Canada is ever going to be doing is playing catch up against a better funded world. Drive innovation and there will be jobs for those with STEM degrees. If you don’t, they will just go where they can find work....not here.

 

[jc100]

If you’re talking about making money....that’s a different beast. The partnerships you mention are great for Universities to pad their bottom lines and make up the shortfall from less government funding. Be clear though, the innovation advantage there doesn’t lie with Canada, it benefits the (often foreign) industrial partner.

 

[Mad Mike]

Interesting fact too....the economy is doing well and jobless rates are low. Maybe the two are connected?

Would you be happy with balancing the budget IF that meant austerity measures kicking in to affect unemployment rates and the economy?

See, it’s just not that simple.

The problem is you are supposed to be building bank in good times, that helps you through the tough times. There are two federally funded "infrastructure" projects in my neighbourhood that make me cringe when I walk by. The first is a $560,000 4 stall public washroom, now I'm looking at a $3.5m upgrade to a perfectly functional 30x50 outdoor pool that was in perfect operating order. Here are a few other federal funded "infrastructure" candidates in my town - none of these is being done for economic, state of repair, or capacity -- they are candidates because there is Trudeau "Canada 150 Infrastructure money" for that.

Just a sampling...

• Benjamin Thorne Bronze Statue, Public Art - $700K
• Stiver Mill Expansion - 800sq ' - $800K
• Pan Am Legacy Public Art - Water Fountain - $1.5M
• Reducing Train Whistling - $4M
• Pool Change Room Reconfig to add "universal Change room" $4M
• Conversion of Indoor Soccer to Ice Rink (love this -- they converted it from Ice to indoor soccer a while back) $12M
• Expansion to Theatre - $25M (for a theater that's idle 50% of the time)

 

[Mad Mike]

Sorry Mike but that’s just not correct. Basic research is what drives innovation. Look at any Nobel prize that has led to a revolution in the area. Look at CRISPR gene editing, look at carbon nanomaterials, new structures for antibiotics, molecular computing. They all started with basic research. Avoid it and all Canada is ever going to be doing is playing catch up against a better funded world. Drive innovation and there will be jobs for those with STEM degrees. If you don’t, they will just go where they can find work....not here.

I'm not arguing that. My argument is the shift from public funding to private partnerships is yielding better results because the private sector is better at these things than the public. . Save the public dollars for important things the private sector cannot or will not do.

 

[jc100]

The problem is you are supposed to be building bank in good times, that helps you through the tough times. There are two federally funded "infrastructure" projects in my neighbourhood that make me cringe when I walk by. The first is a $560,000 4 stall public washroom, now I'm looking at a $3.5m upgrade to a perfectly functional 30x50 outdoor pool that was in perfect operating order. Here are a few other federal funded "infrastructure" candidates in my town - none of these is being done for economic, state of repair, or capacity -- they are candidates because there is Trudeau "Canada 150 Infrastructure money" for that.

Just a sampling...

• Benjamin Thorne Bronze Statue, Public Art - $700K
• Stiver Mill Expansion - 800sq ' - $800K
• Pan Am Legacy Public Art - Water Fountain - $1.5M
• Reducing Train Whistling - $4M
• Pool Change Room Reconfig to add "universal Change room" $4M
• Conversion of Indoor Soccer to Ice Rink (love this -- they converted it from Ice to indoor soccer a while back) $12M
• Expansion to Theatre - $25M (for a theater that's idle 50% of the time)

Ask Alberta about building bank in the good times.

Some of those projects are for the arts. That’s not a bad thing, the best cities in the world have a lot of culture. Ever been to San Jose? It’s a cultural desert and gets empty outside of work hours and Sharks games. Maybe the theatre is idle because it’s not big enough to bring bigger acts in?

Should there be a balance? Yes...for instance, no point in putting up a new sports Plex if the roads to drive there mean you need an off-road vehicle.

Is there waste? Totally. No party is immune though.

 

[Evoex]

Interesting fact too....the economy is doing well and jobless rates are low. Maybe the two are connected?

Would you be happy with balancing the budget IF that meant austerity measures kicking in to affect unemployment rates and the economy?

See, it’s just not that simple.

Short answer: yes

 

[Mad Mike]

Ask Alberta about building bank in the good times.

I think all the Heritage Fund just tells us Albertan's are financially inept.

Some of those projects are for the arts. That’s not a bad thing, the best cities in the world have a lot of culture. Ever been to San Jose?

Yes, I've been to San Jose. And I don't mind some spending on culture however I think that too is something the community invest in - not the Federal Gov't. The city I live in has adequate resources and funding for public art, my point is this is free Liberal boondoggle money -- $700K for an 8' bronze statue of a man -- Really?

It’s a cultural desert and gets empty outside of work hours and Sharks games. Maybe the theatre is idle because it’s not big enough to bring bigger acts in?

That won't be solved by adding 20,000 sq feet of meeting space. There is already hundreds of thousands sq' of underutilized meeting space on community centers, fairground buildings and private halls. This is simply building because there is free money. If I heard "we need a $10M outdoor Amphitheatre" I might be more understanding.

Should there be a balance? Yes...for instance, no point in putting up a new sports Plex if the roads to drive there mean you need an off-road vehicle.

There we agree. I'd go even further in saying no new Sportsplex if we already have some that are not at capacity.

My point is we didn't need a Canada 150 spend to keep us out of recession. Some went to good infrastructure, a lot of that funding just made unnecessary pet projecting races across the country.
[/QUOTE]

 

[jc100]

Short answer: yes

Would you be willing to risk losing your job for balancing the budget? I don’t think so. Some people will be making decisions like that.

 

[MRR11.6]

Would anyone risk putting any faith in lieberal debt promises?

Trudeau government ran $14B deficit in 2018-19, exceeding $10B for third year in a row

The deficit for the fiscal year that ended March 31 was $900 million smaller than the government projected in last spring's federal budget, however

nationalpost.com

In the three full fiscal years since the Liberals came to power, the federal government has posted $52 billion worth of shortfalls even though the economy has had a solid run of growth.

The Liberals won the 2015 election on a platform that promised annual deficits of no more than $10 billion and to return to balance by 2019.

 

[MRR11.6]

Interesting fact too....the economy is doing well and jobless rates are low. Maybe the two are connected?

Would you be happy with balancing the budget IF that meant austerity measures kicking in to affect unemployment rates and the economy?

See, it’s just not that simple.

Our economy is more influenced by the how well the US economy is doing than by the turd spending us broke.

 

[Mad Mike]

Would anyone risk putting any faith in lieberal debt promises?

http://[URL]https://nationalpost.co...aight-double-digit-deficit-with-14b-shortfall

[/URL]

In the three full fiscal years since the Liberals came to power, the federal government has posted $52 billion worth of shortfalls even though the economy has had a solid run of growth.

The Liberals won the 2015 election on a platform that promised annual deficits of no more than $10 billion and to return to balance by 2019.

On track for $70billion for their term. That's almost $4k of additional debt to be serviced by the 18.4million Canadians who pay federal income tax.