Can we mobilize teachers? | Page 4 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Can we mobilize teachers?

GreyGhost

Well-known member
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Normal development of an online course takes about 2y and that’s for small classes. I’m glad you’ve worked out how to do it in 2 weeks for classes larger than those normally taught, for a socioeconomically diverse group of students, many not having the required technology available.

Here, have a Nobel Prize.
If you have a fully paid and unemployed workforce, there is no reason they couldn't be putting 40 hours a week into developing something. I am not saying that they must spend 40 hours a week delivering content that they do not yet have, but if you are being paid, you should be working. I doubt any online course has ever had such a large workforce available for development. Teacher A could cover this topic, teacher B that topic and you would quickly have the curriculum basics covered.
 

jc100

Well-known member
If you have a fully paid and unemployed workforce, there is no reason they couldn't be putting 40 hours a week into developing something. I am not saying that they must spend 40 hours a week delivering content that they do not yet have, but if you are being paid, you should be working. I doubt any online course has ever had such a large workforce available for development. Teacher A could cover this topic, teacher B that topic and you would quickly have the curriculum basics covered.
Right...except for one small issue. Do you think there’s a major part of the teachers college curriculum devoted to the development of online teaching currently when everything we have ever known is in-school teaching really up to this point?

Thats like assuming a surgeon automatically knows how to do remote surgery through robotics just because his title is surgeon. This will take time to do it properly and it’s going to take a significant investment in IT support staff to do it.

edit: I have an entire IT team and a team of educational design specialists at my disposal for my courses in addition to remote exam staff and admin staff.
 
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Evoex

The God
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Normal development of an online course takes about 2y and that’s for small classes. I’m glad you’ve worked out how to do it in 2 weeks for classes larger than those normally taught, for a socioeconomically diverse group of students, many not having the required technology available.

Here, have a Nobel Prize.
You need to step away from the computer man, you`re going to bust a vein.
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
Are you working for free right now too? Is everyone else working for free that’s bitching about this too? Are the nurses? Doctors? For them surely it’s all about the patients so shouldn’t they be working for free? Pots and kettles everywhere. Hypocrisy central. Lol...
No, I'm not working for free, but I am working 10-12 hours a day because that's what's required right now.

I'm not on extended leave with full pay and benefits, or in a role that can easily defer my workload for 2 months while still giving me 3 weeks continuous summer holiday and another 10 weeks of paid time off over the year.
 

Evoex

The God
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OSSTF now seems to be suggesting that teachers shouldn’t do what everyone else in the Western world is doing and use online tools to work from home in case it compromises their negotiation position in future years.
The union repeats these points multiple times throughout the Q&A, stating elsewhere that: “There is no requirement of you that you work online with your students at this point” and that “there is no requirement at this time for any Member to be engaged in any online learning.”

But despite their resistance to adapting to what appears to be a new normal for the coming weeks and months, they clearly believe teachers should be paid even if they do nothing.
“While nothing is 100% guaranteed,” the Q&A reads, “at this time there is no reason to believe that teachers will not continue to receive full pay for the remainder of the year. ”
The union offers very little guidance to the many great teachers who are already stepping up and providing learning tools to students via emails to parents and more. Speaking from personal experience, my children’s teachers clearly care about staying engaged with their classrooms and making sure their students don’t fall behind. Other parents commenting online are saying the same.
It’s curious that the union worries that agreeing to participate in some form of e-learning now may end up harming them in negotiations in years to come.
It’s just as likely, though, that refusing to step up could be the thing that turns public sentiment against them and sees them lose out later on down the road.
flame on.
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
Normal development of an online course takes about 2y and that’s for small classes. I’m glad you’ve worked out how to do it in 2 weeks for classes larger than those normally taught, for a socioeconomically diverse group of students, many not having the required technology available.

Here, have a Nobel Prize.
I'll take that prize. I managed to convert 5 days of existing ILT to Adobe Classroom - it's not rocket science, profs that I'm in contact are doing the same at the rate of 1 day per day of instruction. Actually don't give me the prize -- the work is too easy. My kid's UofT profs are also doing the conversions to keep their nursing school lock step with their course calendar... in real time too.

Learning to use on-line classrooms is a short learn, about a day, we're not talking about designing content, we're changing the delivery method.

It's not a permanent-forever thing, it simply demonstrating the agility needed to respond to the situation. It won't be perfect, but 90% is better than zero.
 

FullMotoJacket

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Normal development of an online course takes about 2y and that’s for small classes. I’m glad you’ve worked out how to do it in 2 weeks for classes larger than those normally taught, for a socioeconomically diverse group of students, many not having the required technology available.

Here, have a Nobel Prize.
Typical deflection one would expect.
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
Right...except for one small issue. Do you think there’s a major part of the teachers college curriculum devoted to the development of online teaching currently when everything we have ever known is in-school teaching really up to this point?

Thats like assuming a surgeon automatically knows how to do remote surgery through robotics just because his title is surgeon. This will take time to do it properly and it’s going to take a significant investment in IT support staff to do it.

edit: I have an entire IT team and a team of educational design specialists at my disposal for my courses in addition to remote exam staff and admin staff.
I think you need a lesson or two in delivery. Instructor Led Training (ILT - teacher stands in the class with students) and Virtual Instructor Led Training (teacher stands in front of a computer, students in class or in front of their own computers) almost always use the same content AND instructors. There are different tools and different skills required and I would guess most school teachers are unfamiliar with VILT -- the good news is the learning curve to VILT isn't steep for an ILT instructor. Another good thing is content can be effectively delivered either way with similar learning outcomes.

On-line courses are a different beast and the learning management systems that are used to manage delivery are complex and take a lot of time and expertise to make effective. School teachers would not be involved in this, that's a job for learning architects.
 

K20EF8

Well-known member
Just messaged my teacher buddy and asked him if everything is back to normal in June are teachers going to finish the school year in July and August without pay. He said "**** no, that's why government jobs pay less than private"
Yeah thats why all my private sector friends are working from home right now while all he has done is sent out 1 email in the past 3 weeks.
Thinks his public high school teachers job pays less than the private sector overall because college and university profs make more than him.
Yeah of course they do, they have PHDs not a college diploma and 8 months teachers college course.
 

GreyGhost

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Just messaged my teacher buddy and asked him if everything is back to normal in June are teachers going to finish the school year in July and August without pay. He said "**** no, that's why government jobs pay less than private"
Yeah thats why all my private sector friends are working from home right now while all he has done is sent out 1 email in the past 3 weeks.
Thinks his public high school teachers job pays less than the private sector overall because college and university profs make more than him.
Yeah of course they do, they have PHDs not a college diploma and 8 months teachers college course.
And most do substantial work outside the classroom on research/papers etc. That is actually the primary part of the job for most profs. Entirely different job description and infinitely higher expectations and difficulty getting secure employment.
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
Typical deflection one would expect.
It is deflection, it's also another common tactic to diminish the benefits of a sound argument - while virtual instructor training and web based eLearning sound similar to a someone outside the profession, they are vastly different beasts -- conflating the two is the crime in his argument.
 

K20EF8

Well-known member
And most do substantial work outside the classroom on research/papers etc. That is actually the primary part of the job for most profs. Entirely different job description and infinitely higher expectations and difficulty getting secure employment.
Yeah, far harder to get a PHD in a STEM subject. Then you are constantly teaching and researching all year round in order to secure tenure.
 

Trials

Well-known member
How about parents teaching their own kids for the next 2 weeks,
teachers know what the curriculum is going to be tomorrow don't they? Communicate that between the teacher and parent.
Worst possible thing that could happen is the parent will learn something.
 

K20EF8

Well-known member
Depends. Is there classes on how to moan and ***** about how hard your job is and how underpaid you are?
If the job was too difficult and underpaid the supply of potential teachers would dwindle, forcing the market to increase compensation.
The teachers union inflated compensation to the point where thousands of teachers are willing to wait several years for a job.
If the free market decided their compensation it would go down but try explaining a simple concept like this to a teacher an they will deflect.
 

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