Can we mobilize teachers? | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Can we mobilize teachers?

jc100 said:
So we are doing this right now (University level). I’ve been teaching some online courses for the past eight or nine years anyway but this is the first time many of my colleagues have done it. It’s not for everyone, not all students are well adapted to it. Engagement is difficult. Remote exams are tough to design that are academically rigorous (think about it). However, right now it’s literally all we have got and it’s way better than nothing. Issues....access to tech, access to bandwidth, access to wi-fi.

Huge opportunity here for creativity to get this to work well but I still believe it’s a temporary measure. Kids missing out on the social aspect of classes will be a big deal.
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i teach them too and you are right that it’s a lot harder than it sounds. I can say that ILT teachers are the same ones that are great VLT teachers. It’s all about effort and skill development.

The good thing is the transition to virtual is simple, the tools can be mastered in hours.

Social interaction is actually better in VLT than in a class — MUCH BETTER. Kids are quite familiar with digital socializing, done virtually presents fewer issues for cliquing, higher participation rates and greater opportunity for players who have issues engaging in person.

engagement is tough In any teacher setting. It’s not tougher in virtual training, it just meeds more focus the in person. Also, teachers Are engaging in class are the ones who are inhaling on line.
 
GreyGhost said:
Agreed.

How many webcams can online meeting software deal with? I am thinking along the lines of "Setup on a clean white table (tablecloth/towel/sheet/whatever), the camera needs to be able to see 2' in front of your papers" You record the streams. It would be damn hard to cheat by looking at anything as it would be pretty easy to see in the stream (and since they were recorded, suspicious answers could trigger a review of the tape). The exam is either delivered in a sealed envelope that they open on the video or much more likely electronically and printed. Yes, not everybody has a printer, but a black and white printer is cheaper than a monthly bus pass you don't need if you are at home.
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I do lessons with up to 50 from my kitchen table. In most cases Yoe are not using the camera, and when you do only one cam is ever in focus, it’s not all that bandwidth intensive.

Unproctored exams present issues. Virtual training tests are best when short, delivered as a learning reinforcements (quiz) and by surprise.
 
The Province, Boards and Unions are all already trying to figure this out, it is not a simple problem that just needs some simpleton answer... Our kids started getting assignments from their teachers Monday morning via email and Google Classroom BTW.

  • The telecommunications infrastructure in some cases is already under a lot of stress, so for some there are already capacity problems (I work in Telecom, busier than ever...)
  • Virtual meeting applications are currently running near (over) capacity, I see this everyday as I use multiple different versions for different clients (can't get in, online works, phone kicks you out etc., crashes mid meeting), some are doing better than others. There is also a cost for these apps, usually per "seat" to the organizer.
  • Not every household in Ontario has broadband, some cannot afford it, for some it is just not available where they live--and they can't just go to a "Library" to get access like the Ford solution for mandatory online courses (again, I do this for a living...).
  • While most high-school kids have their own computer (not all by any means), in the lower grades multiple kids share a computer in most homes so they cannot all be on it at the same time via "WebEx" (assuming they do not fall into the above point).
  • Many low income households do not actually have a printer, so sending, for example, pdf math sheets or other assignments they need to print out, complete, and then scan is a problem.
  • The haters will like this, not every teacher is a Internet genius that can just start immediately virtual teaching online (beyond Google Classroom, etc.).
  • Teachers are not all given "company" laptops so they may not have the hardware at home to to full online virtual teaching.
  • Some parents (far too many) will just not step up and make sure the kids are doing the work from home, they really will need to take part in all this more than ever.
  • Examination requires very specific applications to make sure the taker is not cheating if writing online (I have used them), most online university courses (as an example) actually require you to write your exams in person at a local (to you) third party College or University, the exams are not just online for this reason. My second Engineering degree was online, all my exams were done (proctored) at Humber...
Sadly, most of the above impacts lower income families the most, not saying that we should hold everyone else back because some people are poor but the powers that be do have to consider it. With the job losses, most families can't just throw money at the problem either.

But as noted, the Province, Boards and Unions are currently working together on this. But as we know, haters gonna hate.
 
Yep Microsoft teams has problems for us with three webcams on, the rest of the audio went to crap. We cap Zoom at 30 students and even there we have issues if webcams are on. Mostly we switch them off and it’s just audio but this brings me back to Mike's point about socialization. Reading facial expressions and talking face to face are necessary components of normal socialization. Digital socialization is a totally different beast and it’s partly why we have issues with some students adapting to university life. Good news is that many students are already socially isolated anyway so for the pandemic it works well.

My normal exams have been proctored in exam centres. This year that will likely change unless there’s a radical improvement in the Covid 19 situation before June. I’ve always refused other exam types because I cannot be sure that cheating has not taken place but for now I have no choice and I’m going to have to trust the students and assume they will take honour statements seriously.
 
backmarkerducati said:
The Province, Boards and Unions are all already trying to figure this out, it is not a simple problem that just needs some simpleton answer... Our kids started getting assignments from their teachers Monday morning via email and Google Classroom BTW.

  • The telecommunications infrastructure in some cases is already under a lot of stress, so for some there are already capacity problems (I work in Telecom, busier than ever...)
  • Virtual meeting applications are currently running near (over) capacity, I see this everyday as I use multiple different versions for different clients (can't get in, online works, phone kicks you out etc., crashes mid meeting), some are doing better than others. There is also a cost for these apps, usually per "seat" to the organizer.
  • Not every household in Ontario has broadband, some cannot afford it, for some it is just not available where they live--and they can't just go to a "Library" to get access like the Ford solution for mandatory online courses (again, I do this for a living...).
  • While most high-school kids have their own computer (not all by any means), in the lower grades multiple kids share a computer in most homes so they cannot all be on it at the same time via "WebEx" (assuming they do not fall into the above point).
  • Many low income households do not actually have a printer, so sending, for example, pdf math sheets or other assignments they need to print out, complete, and then scan is a problem.
  • The haters will like this, not every teacher is a Internet genius that can just start immediately virtual teaching online (beyond Google Classroom, etc.).
  • Teachers are not all given "company" laptops so they may not have the hardware at home to to full online virtual teaching.
  • Some parents (far too many) will just not step up and make sure the kids are doing the work from home, they really will need to take part in all this more than ever.
  • Examination requires very specific applications to make sure the taker is not cheating if writing online (I have used them), most online university courses (as an example) actually require you to write your exams in person at a local (to you) third party College or University, the exams are not just online for this reason. My second Engineering degree was online, all my exams were done (proctored) at Humber...
Sadly, most of the above impacts lower income families the most, not saying that we should hold everyone else back because some people are poor but the powers that be do have to consider it. With the job losses, most families can't just throw money at the problem either.

But as noted, the Province, Boards and Unions are currently working together on this. But as we know, haters gonna hate.
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Valid concerns but we don’t have to boil the ocean. Just do something, do it to the best of your ability most important... get going.
 
jc100 said:
Yep Microsoft teams has problems for us with three webcams on, the rest of the audio went to crap. We cap Zoom at 30 students and even there we have issues if webcams are on. Mostly we switch them off and it’s just audio but this brings me back to Mike's point about socialization. Reading facial expressions and talking face to face are necessary components of normal socialization. Digital socialization is a totally different beast and it’s partly why we have issues with some students adapting to university life. Good news is that many students are already socially isolated anyway so for the pandemic it works well.

My normal exams have been proctored in exam centres. This year that will likely change unless there’s a radical improvement in the Covid 19 situation before June. I’ve always refused other exam types because I cannot be sure that cheating has not taken place but for now I have no choice and I’m going to have to trust the students and assume they will take honour statements seriously.
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Every on-line training and testing course I ever took ran completely on Adobe Acrobat. (PDF= Portable Document Format)
 
jc100 said:
Adobe Connect works well too but I think the licence priced us out the market.
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It's all just based on postscript, buy a Mac and you are already buying postscript technology. You can even computer program in postscript because it can make system calls.
 
jc100 said:
Adobe Connect works well too but I think the licence priced us out the market.
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The upside to e-learning is the province can go to the choices and say "connect, teams or webex can all satisfy our needs. What's the best price for an province wide educational site license". If solidworks/inventor/catia can cut basically give their very expensive software to schools to breed familiarity and future industry domination, it should be possible for online collab companies to do the same thing. Once out of school, people continue to use the software they are used to.
 
Mad Mike said:
I don't think that's giving kids enough credit. The ones that plan on going forward as leaders or significant contributors may benefit.
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Oh, I get it. My daughter is one of that segment who are chomping at the bit to continue her education. She LOVES what she's learning and loves her classes...so she's not pleased about the interruption. FWIW it seems that her teachers are at least making an effort to get them to do what they can - she sent me a picture of her and one of her housemates out doing a field study several days ago as part of their curriculum they'd planned to do as a group, but are now doing solo instead. And she's going gung ho doing what she can remotely because she's learned the skills necessary to be able to work that way.

But the issue is....are all students so inclined to make this effort, or perhaps better yet, CAN they...ie, as mentioned, do they have the technology, skills, and abilities? That's the struggle.
 
jc100 said:
My normal exams have been proctored in exam centres. This year that will likely change unless there’s a radical improvement in the Covid 19 situation before June. I’ve always refused other exam types because I cannot be sure that cheating has not taken place but for now I have no choice and I’m going to have to trust the students and assume they will take honour statements seriously.
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It would be an interesting exercise to see what the marks are for unsupervised exams vs the normal ones. If you have to do on-line and find the marks markedly higher, you could just adjust them.

Don't get me started on accommodations. John, you know how I feel about them.
 
Lyndsay said:
It would be an interesting exercise to see what the marks are for unsupervised exams vs the normal ones. If you have to do on-line and find the marks markedly higher, you could just adjust them.
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Marks dont really matter at university in my experience. Comprehension matters. Cheating on a test this year could mean you have to cheat twice as much next year to try to get by. That house of cards doesnt stay up long.
 
Mad Mike said:
Valid concerns but we don’t have to boil the ocean. Just do something, do it to the best of your ability most important... get going.
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Again, this is all being looked at (all three groups cooperating), but it is not a simple solution.

Other problems....
  • Some boards have moved away from text books (to save money) for junior grades, so the teachers can't even just assign pages.
  • Even the ones that have them, many are in the kids lockers as they did not take them home for March break.
  • The teacher's teaching material is all locked in the schools at the moment.
  • I checked in with my kids teachers and other teachers I know, the work they sent out yesterday is being completely ignored by most families...
This is not going to be simple...
 
backmarkerducati said:
Again, this is all being looked at (all three groups cooperating), but it is not a simple solution.

Other problems....
  • Some boards have moved away from text books (to save money) for junior grades, so the teachers can't even just assign pages.
  • Even the ones that have them, many are in the kids lockers as they did not take them home for March break.
  • The teacher's teaching material is all locked in the schools at the moment.
  • I checked in with my kids teachers and other teachers I know, the work they sent out yesterday is being completely ignored by most families...
This is not going to be simple...
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I cleared out the school/daycare just before march break. The writing was on the wall for anyone paying attention that they were not going back anytime soon.
 
backmarkerducati said:
Again, this is all being looked at (all three groups cooperating), but it is not a simple solution.

Other problems....
  • Some boards have moved away from text books (to save money) for junior grades, so the teachers can't even just assign pages.
  • Even the ones that have them, many are in the kids lockers as they did not take them home for March break.
  • The teacher's teaching material is all locked in the schools at the moment.
  • I checked in with my kids teachers and other teachers I know, the work they sent out yesterday is being completely ignored by most families...
This is not going to be simple...
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You sound like the teachers union, looking for all the reasons to not do things. How about a little can-do attitude?
 
Mad Mike said:
Another union style rebuttal. How about giving us something to like?
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He practically flipped me off in another thread for stating housing isnt affordable today, turns out his 500k house in '08 is worth 1.7m now.

I just txted my buddy who teaches public high school:
"Have you been teaching/working from home?"

Him: "I sent a message that's it"

All the months of the teachers union and teachers yelling "Its about the kids". We are going to see if its true come June when kids go back to school. We'll see if teachers are willing to give up July and August to finish the school year.
 
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