Can we mobilize teachers? | GTAMotorcycle.com

Can we mobilize teachers?

Mad Mike

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GreyGhost

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Either that or EI with the private sector. Being paid full salary to not work is a disaster for the public purse (although that may have been part of the negotiation).

I am still trying to work and look after them so part of the learning time each day is unfortunately apps on a tablet. Damn. Some are great. Kid's learning so fast. Of course some are ad ridden useless wastes of time that teach the kid nothing other than frustration.
 

Mad Mike

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I know the private sector has adapted in a snap to deliver training to essential workers. Virtually every dispatch, response and call center has had to switch to virtual and online training -- they pivoted in a matter of weeks.

WebEx is free to cheap, the instructor courses are free -- anyone who has led meetings or done basic training can attend the online seminars and start leading a class in a matter of hours. Perhaps they should all do this training then start delivering their standard curriculum on-line.
 

GreyGhost

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I know the private sector has adapted in a snap to deliver training to essential workers. Virtually every dispatch, response and call center has had to switch to virtual and online training -- they pivoted in a matter of weeks.

WebEx is free to cheap, the instructor courses are free -- anyone who has led meetings or done basic training can attend the online seminars and start leading a class in a matter of hours. Perhaps they should all do this training then start delivering their standard curriculum on-line.
Yup. I am sure there will be some cries about lack of high speed or technology at home to take part for some people, but we aren't dealing with a long-term plan here. We're making the best of a bad situation. If you don't have high speed or technology at home, the plan for your kids will be different. I know some people are teaching them cool things like working with your hands (welding/mechanic/wood work/etc).
 

PrivatePilot

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My daughter is in college and they're struggling to:

A/ Actually make this work
B/ Actually get the students to buy in on it and do it.

I can't possibly imagine how it would be even remotely viable to do this with elementary students who have the attention span of a gnat. Heck, even the high schooled age kids right now are just treating this as an extended march break - half of them are barely taking this whole Covid19 thing seriously to begin with, much less be willing to engage with any meaningful learning if they're not sitting in a classroom.

It's a nice idea in theory, but it just falls apart in practicality. The only reason it's kinda sorta working at the college level is that the students are more mature, and hey, when you're paying for an education at that point...many kinda actually want to get it.
 

GreyGhost

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My daughter is in college and they're struggling to:

A/ Actually make this work
B/ Actually get the students to buy in on it and do it.

I can't possibly imagine how it would be even remotely viable to do this with elementary students who have the attention span of a gnat. Heck, even the high schooled age kids right now are just treating this as an extended march break - half of them are barely taking this whole Covid19 thing seriously to begin with, much less be willing to engage with any meaningful learning if they're not sitting in a classroom.

It's a nice idea in theory, but it just falls apart in practicality. The only reason it's kinda sorta working at the college level is that the students are more mature, and hey, when you're paying for an education at that point...many kinda actually want to get it.
My kid could do it for a while (a few hours a day). He really likes his teachers and would be happy to watch and interact with them. From the teacher side, maybe they split the class into 6 groups and do an hour with each group? That is only a few kids at a time and much more manageable. Unless they are just listening and not able to talk, a huge group of kids on the other side of a webcam would be unmanageable.
 

800over

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My kids' grade school teacher (grade 3) has called home to check on him and put classroom work with printouts and suggestions online....new stuff every day. But it only works if the parents have the time/buy in. So like all school work the efficacy varies.
 

Mad Mike

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My daughter is in college and they're struggling to:

A/ Actually make this work
B/ Actually get the students to buy in on it and do it.

I can't possibly imagine how it would be even remotely viable to do this with elementary students who have the attention span of a gnat. Heck, even the high schooled age kids right now are just treating this as an extended march break - half of them are barely taking this whole Covid19 thing seriously to begin with, much less be willing to engage with any meaningful learning if they're not sitting in a classroom.

It's a nice idea in theory, but it just falls apart in practicality. The only reason it's kinda sorta working at the college level is that the students are more mature, and hey, when you're paying for an education at that point...many kinda actually want to get it.
I don't think that's giving kids enough credit. The ones that plan on going forward as leaders or significant contributors may benefit.

I learned a long time ago that doing nothing is the only way to guarantee a result.
 

GreyGhost

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I learned a long time ago that doing nothing is the only way to guarantee a result.
Speaking of that. We haven't heard a peep from my kids teacher. The EA checked in once over the app to provide a link to resources.

It will be a *&^show when school restarts. I would not want to be a teacher in that mess. You will have some kids that have been mindless TV zombies the whole time and were behind where they were the day school closed, some that through conscientious parenting and lots of time and energy are well ahead of where they they should be and some in the middle of those two groups. You always have a spread in a class, but this may widen the gap considerably. I don't know how a teacher can deal with the incredible disparity I expect them to face.

I am going to pull the curriculum to see what my kid is supposed to learn for the rest of this year and next year. I may try to get him to the end of next year before school restarts (so far he has been amenable to learning from dad, we'll see if that holds up). If we can get there, then convince the school to skip him. Being bored at school is the worst.
 
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jc100

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So we are doing this right now (University level). I’ve been teaching some online courses for the past eight or nine years anyway but this is the first time many of my colleagues have done it. It’s not for everyone, not all students are well adapted to it. Engagement is difficult. Remote exams are tough to design that are academically rigorous (think about it). However, right now it’s literally all we have got and it’s way better than nothing. Issues....access to tech, access to bandwidth, access to wi-fi.

Huge opportunity here for creativity to get this to work well but I still believe it’s a temporary measure. Kids missing out on the social aspect of classes will be a big deal.
 

GreyGhost

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So we are doing this right now (University level). I’ve been teaching some online courses for the past eight or nine years anyway but this is the first time many of my colleagues have done it. It’s not for everyone, not all students are well adapted to it. Engagement is difficult. Remote exams are tough to design that are academically rigorous (think about it). However, right now it’s literally all we have got and it’s way better than nothing. Issues....access to tech, access to bandwidth, access to wi-fi.

Huge opportunity here for creativity to get this to work well but I still believe it’s a temporary measure. Kids missing out on the social aspect of classes will be a big deal.
The best exam I ever had was from a prof that was ex-RAF.

"The government wants to build a wind turbine on Ramsey Island, UK. The maximum height of the tower is 100m. Is this economically viable? Explain why." Awesome. Try to cheat at that. He gets to see your thought process and he gets to see how you calculate the expected power produced and cost of the turbine. That lets him know if you understood the concepts he was trying to convey.

Sadly, a few years later I went to his funeral. Best prof ever.

As far as the social aspects, I'm not sure how to deal with that yet. They facetime family but not many friends. His best friend is a ghost. I gave the parents my email and number and have tried to setup playdates for them (prior to this mess) and he makes cards inviting him over but the parents never respond. I have no idea what their last name is, where they live or what their number is. Lots of kids in the neighbourhood but obviously directly hanging out is a bad idea right now. Social separation will just add to the mess the teachers are trying to clean up when it restarts.
 
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jc100

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The best exam I ever had was from a prof that was ex-RAF.

"The government wants to build a wind turbine on Ramsey Island, UK. The maximum height of the tower is 100m. Is this economically viable. Explain why." Awesome. Try to cheat at that. He gets to see your thought process and he gets to see how you calculate the expected power produced and cost of the turbine. That lets him know if you understood the concepts he was trying to convey.

Sadly, a few years later I went to his funeral. Best prof ever.
some courses lend themselves to questions like that, the ones I teach are mostly two part courses, one foundational and one mostly application of the principals learned from part I. The application one is easier to set for questions like the one you mentioned, the foundational one would be harder. It can be done though, just not as academically rigorous as a proctored exam.
 

GreyGhost

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some courses lend themselves to questions like that, the ones I teach are mostly two part courses, one foundational and one mostly application of the principals learned from part I. The application one is easier to set for questions like the one you mentioned, the foundational one would be harder. It can be done though, just not as academically rigorous as a proctored exam.
Agreed.

How many webcams can online meeting software deal with? I am thinking along the lines of "Setup on a clean white table (tablecloth/towel/sheet/whatever), the camera needs to be able to see 2' in front of your papers" You record the streams. It would be damn hard to cheat by looking at anything as it would be pretty easy to see in the stream (and since they were recorded, suspicious answers could trigger a review of the tape). The exam is either delivered in a sealed envelope that they open on the video or much more likely electronically and printed. Yes, not everybody has a printer, but a black and white printer is cheaper than a monthly bus pass you don't need if you are at home.
 

jc100

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Agreed.

How many webcams can online meeting software deal with? I am thinking along the lines of "Setup on a clean white table (tablecloth/towel/sheet/whatever), the camera needs to be able to see 2' in front of your papers" You record the streams. It would be damn hard to cheat by looking at anything as it would be pretty easy to see in the stream (and since they were recorded, suspicious answers could trigger a review of the tape). The exam is either delivered in a sealed envelope that they open on the video or much more likely electronically and printed. Yes, not everybody has a printer, but a black and white printer is cheaper than a monthly bus pass you don't need if you are at home.
We have that already, problem is it isn’t scaleable. It costs $20 per student to run too. There’s also eye tracking software you can use to make sure students eyes aren’t looking at external sources but here’s the thing, if there’s a way to game the system....some will. And if that gaming turns out to be risk/reward beneficial, then it’s going to be communicated and used by more students. Open book timed exams are good but then many students have claimed accommodations of sometimes double and triple time which means that they have more time to “google ****”.
 

Robbo

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My eldest son started online this morning. He says they won’t be doing final exams but most likely one more group and one more individual assignment.

He still hasn’t heard from all of his professors but should know more as the week progresses.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

GreyGhost

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We have that already, problem is it isn’t scaleable. It costs $20 per student to run too. There’s also eye tracking software you can use to make sure students eyes aren’t looking at external sources but here’s the thing, if there’s a way to game the system....some will. And if that gaming turns out to be risk/reward beneficial, then it’s going to be communicated and used by more students. Open book timed exams are good but then many students have claimed accommodations of sometimes double and triple time which means that they have more time to “google ****”.
Don't get me started on accommodations. Frig. They should put a star on your degree if you used accommodations. I think that would change students attitudes on whether they really need them. Does a future employer give you double time to complete something? No bleeping way. They expect that you earned the degree and can do quality timely work.
 

jc100

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Don't get me started on accommodations. Frig. They should put a star on your degree if you used accommodations. I think that would change students attitudes on whether they really need them. Does a future employer give you double time to complete something? No bleeping way. They expect that you earned the degree and can do quality timely work.
A prof in the US wanted exactly what you suggested, he was shouted down. His suggestion was along the lines of extra time only if you had say damaged your left hand and were left handed for writing. I’m not sure but MCAT/LSAT exams don’t seem to give as many accommodations.
 

jc100

Well-known member
My eldest son started online this morning. He says they won’t be doing final exams but most likely one more group and one more individual assignment.

He still hasn’t heard from all of his professors but should know more as the week progresses.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
some places have just stopped and are basing marks on work done before the shutdown happened.
 

GreyGhost

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A prof in the US wanted exactly what you suggested, he was shouted down. His suggestion was along the lines of extra time only if you had say damaged your left hand and were left handed for writing. I’m not sure but MCAT/LSAT exams don’t seem to give as many accommodations.
The vast majority of the people I knew with accommodations were using them to juice their marks. All claimed some form of primarily mental issue (post-concussive syndrome etc) that could not be easily confirmed through examination. The could have gotten 80%+ in a three hour exam, but because they had six to write it, they could get the coveted 90+. I felt bad for the profs as they were smart and could spray out book after book of content that then had to be marked.
 

Baggsy

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One of my kid's had a time accommodation in high school.
Since he really does have ADHD, it was more of a punishment, than a reward.
His sense of time is off, and he gets easily distracted after a little while.
Basically that little voice in your head, that tells you, you need to get this done now, and then you can go home is immature.
What he needs is to break an exam into smaller parts, and to do something different in between each part, but that would need supervision.
I talked to the school about it, and they can't accommodate in that way.

The thing is that once he hits his 20-30's, it should pretty much disappear, as the little voice will at least have some semblance of adulthood.
 

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