Anybody tired of the Teacher's Strikes?

[BKnight]

Although it's complicated, to put it simply, I think the vast majority of teachers are overpaid, some need the boot and ECE's should have a dramatic salary increase as they are doing a very similar role for 25% of the money.

Almost all unions in canada at this point are a pox on society (and surprise, surprise, most are focused on the public sector as that is the only place that can afford their BS).

Nailed it!!!!!

 

[Scuba Steve]

As far as I am concerned the whole system is broke. Imho the fix would be to set working hours for teachers and make it a full year job. Then cut wages by 20% you would still have a line up for jobs and maybe some of the dead wood would quit. Coaching etc would count towards the amount of hours required.

Sent from my moto g(7) plus using Tapatalk

 

[jc100]

E learning for younger kids is not a good idea. Many of them have already started to lose social skills and avoid interaction. Allowing them to become more anonymous won’t really prepare them for working in teams and learning from peers. E learning later on isn’t too bad but it’s only real benefit is flexibility.

As for this thread, it was nailed at the start. Haters gonna hate. I know a few teachers, nearly all struggle and a couple are working multiple positions to make ends meet. One works in a rough school and looks like he’s gone three rounds with Mike Tyson at the end of the week, he’s exhausted.

Unions...as long as you have an administration who‘s focus isn’t the workforce then you might need a union. Early in my career I had to use my union lawyer to tell admin that my multiple work positions were not a conflict of interest so I could earn a living wage. Later on I had to use them again when new work conditions were brought in by admin (under the guise of efficiency improvements) that meant me working considerably longer hours for no extra pay. If you have an admin that prioritizes the workforce then you’re lucky.

 

[800over]

I love how much salt there is in these threads.....if the job is so great....get in line and do it. If you think that it is that easy or they get paid too much....go ahead. 5 years of school and you begrudge them $50-90k? Go teach 23 grade three kids and tell me they get paid too much. most of you wouldn't last a week with the parents walking into your class and saying you weren't fair to Johnny or that you weren't teaching them correctly.

Oh and the market forces comment? That's what we need a bunch of schools run like Walmart. For profit. Cheaper the better. ******* morons who think that market forces should control something that everyone needs.....everyone. How you like that market in the US for schools and healthcare?
Lets shoot for the bottom....instead of admitting that maybe wages haven't kept up in the private sector....except that they have been outpacing the public sector for the last few years. (feel free to look it up)

404 - Page Not Found

www.conferenceboard.ca

I get how you guys do it....it is so easy to type a bunch of **** without having to back anything up....

Where can i go to see a bunch of middle aged men whine about what others have? Facebook? nope. GTA forums.

 

[J_F]

nice rant 800, lol

this thread reminds me of the Beer Store one
wishing ill on Beer Store workers
hoping they become unemployed

and then beer in corner stores will be cheaper
because, you know, everything is cheaper in a corner store

 

[crankcall]

9 month work year? best pension in the marketplace? good benefits? top out at 90K? I'd take that job. Except I dont have an education.

Know why so many struggle? ask the lady that does payroll at the schoolboard, its not the wage they are paid.

Haters gonna hate? was that typed by an educator? Solid arguement LOL. To bad the weather wan't better, could be wearing your Straight outta Compton T shirts

 

[mimico_polak]

I've got a few friends that are teachers. Both in the private, and public/Catholic school system and I've yet to hear anyone complain.

The only story that stays the same is that the kids are asshats, parents are even worse, and fail little Johnny who's daddy is paying 50-75k/year to the school and YOU have a chat with the principal...not the kid. LoL It's easier to pass the kids at 51% then to deal with the paperwork of why little Johnny failed.

As for the work conditions, pay is great once you have a few years under the belt as I understand it. But the first few years are horrid because you got to suck off every principal in the district by doing ****** substitute teacher gigs for years. The lineup to be a teach is so long, my buddy had 5 years of subbing before he hit a full time role. Same for my other friend.

My other buddy on the other hand had private schools lining up to pay him, I guess a male language teacher is in demand (Masters in Italian, French, Spanish, and another language).

And yes, they love their summers off with a few days here/there for setting up their next year.

EDIT: And as for unions....take the good and the bad. The site I work on now has the weakest union I've ever seen. They don't do **** for their guys, and let the company steamroll over them. Zero support to their workers. They throw bodies at the job as the Union makes money off each hour the guys work. The more workers, the more money. Simple.

 

[daught]

"not complaining" so what's the income sweet spot? Somewhere between complaining and calling it quits? Factor in the stress of over inflated housing market to get people to hang on more before calling it quits. Well done boomers, well done.

 

[mimico_polak]

"not complaining" so what's the income sweet spot? Somewhere between complaining and calling it quits? Factor in the stress of over inflated housing market to get people to hang on more before calling it quits. Well done boomers, well done.

well I know my buddy at the private school was around 120k/year (but no pension) so that's how they made up for it. And I think the others were b/w 70-90k.

I'd say for a job with effectively 10 months of work...that's not bad.

Some of the miners here left our site to a different mine. 90k/year...but you work 7 days, and you get 7 days off.

 

[Mad Mike]

E learning for younger kids is not a good idea. Many of them have already started to lose social skills and avoid interaction. Allowing them to become more anonymous won’t really prepare them for working in teams and learning from peers. E learning later on isn’t too bad but it’s only real benefit is flexibility.

Au contraire my friend. E-learning isn't simply sitting in front of a computer in a dark room plowing through presentations -- modern designers create engaging content, lessons often include breakouts and group work that not only covers core content, it engages students and teaches teamwork and collaboration skills, un-jails learners who hide in a classroom setting.

Unions...as long as you have an administration who‘s focus isn’t the workforce then you might need a union. Early in my career I had to use my union lawyer to tell admin that my multiple work positions were not a conflict of interest so I could earn a living wage. Later on I had to use them again when new work conditions were brought in by admin (under the guise of efficiency improvements) that meant me working considerably longer hours for no extra pay. If you have an admin that prioritizes the workforce then you’re lucky.

I agree somewhat, however employee focus is only one facet of an organization. In public services you need equal focus on the client and the public purse.

 

[Mad Mike]

I love how much salt there is in these threads.....if the job is so great....get in line and do it. If you think that it is that easy or they get paid too much....go ahead. 5 years of school and you begrudge them $50-90k? Go teach 23 grade three kids and tell me they get paid too much. most of you wouldn't last a week with the parents walking into your class and saying you weren't fair to Johnny or that you weren't teaching them correctly.

Hmmm, any of your kids (if you have them), play competitive sports or participate in competitive arts? Tho volunteer moms and dads coaching that stuff take a lot more crap and heat than teachers -- and they do it for free.

Oh and the market forces comment? That's what we need a bunch of schools run like Walmart. For profit. Cheaper the better. ******* morons who think that market forces should control something that everyone needs.....everyone. ...[/URL]

Perhaps the education system has failed you. Re read the prior 3 pages and quote any commentary that suggests we have free market schools. And what make you think the outcomes are better from 100K union teachers than their counterparts making 1/2 that at Montessori or other high performing learning academy?
...

Where can i go to see a bunch of middle aged men whine about what others have? ...

Pubs.

 

[800over]

Hmmm, any of your kids (if you have them), play competitive sports or participate in competitive arts? Tho volunteer moms and dads coaching that stuff take a lot more crap and heat than teachers -- and they do it for free.
Perhaps the education system has failed you. Re read the prior 3 pages and quote any commentary that suggests we have free market schools. And what make you think the outcomes are better from 100K union teachers than their counterparts making 1/2 that at Montessori or other high performing learning academy?
...
Pubs.

I coach sports for my kids (and others) and don't get paid for it. Sounds just like teachers actually. Are you purposefully being abtuse? Or did you think that hockey/football/soccer coach you had in highschool was paid?

 

[Mad Mike]

I coach sports for my kids (and others) and don't get paid for it. Sounds just like teachers actually. Are you purposefully being abtuse? Or did you think that hockey/football/soccer coach you had in highschool was paid?

I was neither trying to be abstract or obtuse. I'll dumb it down a little "Youth volunteer coaches, particularly those with competitive teams, deal with of a lot of parental guff and interference". Nothing said about pay.

 

[jc100]

Au contraire my friend. E-learning isn't simply sitting in front of a computer in a dark room plowing through presentations -- modern designers create engaging content, lessons often include breakouts and group work that not only covers core content, it engages students and teaches teamwork and collaboration skills, un-jails learners who hide in a classroom setting.
I agree somewhat, however employee focus is only one facet of an organization. In public services you need equal focus on the client and the public purse.

I teach both in-classroom and online courses. We have a whole suite of educational designers that work with us. In class courses allow students to "socialise" in a way that online courses don't. Given the choice, most online students won't switch cams on for skype like sessions so missing out on facial expression cues, professional banter and all sorts of little things that you and I take for granted as social skills. Online courses have their place for people changing careers or busy professionals or students with schedule issues. If a student doesn't have a schedule issue then I tell them to take the in class course. There are skills that you learn there that aren't just the subject matter. I'm not just interested in teaching a student my subject topic, I want them to be a better all-round student once they leave here.

Edit: I will say though that e-learning has come a long way. I just don't think it's an appropriate style of teaching for high school kids and younger though for the reasons above.

Edit #2. I have no beef with teachers. I have a big beef with the system that does not prepare students well for higher education. We get students with somewhat fluid and muddy ideas about the concepts of deadlines, plagiarism, study habits, personal responsibility etc. Also, inflated grades are rampant.

 

[GreyGhost]

I teach both in-classroom and online courses. We have a whole suite of educational designers that work with us. In class courses allow students to "socialise" in a way that online courses don't. Given the choice, most online students won't switch cams on for skype like sessions so missing out on facial expression cues, professional banter and all sorts of little things that you and I take for granted as social skills. Online courses have their place for people changing careers or busy professionals or students with schedule issues. If a student doesn't have a schedule issue then I tell them to take the in class course. There are skills that you learn there that aren't just the subject matter. I'm not just interested in teaching a student my subject topic, I want them to be a better all-round student once they leave here.

Edit: I will say though that e-learning has come a long way. I just don't think it's an appropriate style of teaching for high school kids and younger though for the reasons above.

An education based entirely on e-learning would be a terrible idea. I have no problem with a few courses delivered this way (say up to 10%?). Learning without the physical interaction is also a very valuable skill in todays world. This also allows classes to be offered at schools that otherwise wouldn't have the numbers or qualified teachers to make it viable

When I was in high school, the first few programming classes were conventionally taught, the last one was e-learning with one teacher for the entire school board. We never met that teacher but were able to learn a lot that otherwise was beyond the teachers skill level at our school.

 

[Delboy]

I think there are 2 issues here.

One is about Pay and possibly related things like pensions, benefits, etc. The other revolves around some changes the government made.

I have absolutely no problem with someone requesting a pay rise and calling it what it is. I can respect that. Most people would like a rise and I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to negotiate one, regardless of your line of employment.

What I do have a problem with is coming out the statement "Its all about the kids". Call a spade a spade. I can respect that

 

[backmarkerducati]

Lots of butthurt in this thread…. What I am butthurt about…

• I am butthurt that I don’t have the same pension the teachers do, butthurt that I don’t pay 10% of my salary towards my pension. Same as OMERS for firefighters, cops, etc.
• I am butthurt that someone would dare to ask for raises based on cost of living.
• I am butthurt that I don’t get paid for 10 months of work spread over 12 months, not 12 months pay with 2 months off.
• I am butthurt that I do not require two bachelors degrees (Ontario) to work in my field, six years of education (4 year degree plus 2 year teachers college degree).
• I am butthurt my pay is not based on my education level (five payscales based on the education level) and to get to the top pay scale (that everyone thinks all teachers are at) I actually need the equivalent in education to a masters degree (above the two bachelors) in AQs or a full real masters.
• I am butthurt that people don’t think I am lazy because a small percentage of the people in my profession are lazy (like all professions).
• I am butthurt that I don’t have to pay out of pocket for the classes (AQs or masters) to get the additional education to make me better at my job and to move up said payscale.
• I am butthurt that I get paid more in most professions’ education level to education level than teachers.
• I am butthurt that the above mentioned lazy teachers are lazy and they make no where near the top scale because they are too lazy to go back to school for a master (or the equal in AQs).
• I am butthurt that I do not have to pay out of pocket to properly supply my classroom.
• I am butthurt that I do not have to deal with crazy parents and students.
• I am butthurt that women can make a good living in a profession.
• I am butthurt because I think someone has it better than me, but I chose to not do what they are doing or make my life better...instead I just want them to get less.
• I am also butthurt about other things, just sick of typing the list.

Mostly I am butthurt because I am a conservative that bases my opinion on a narrative, I am told what to think based on alternative facts or maybe just being too lazy to do some research—just needs to fit the narrative, that's what is important. Likely butthurt because I am a narcissist that only cares about my situation and I really enjoy my schadenfreude. I am so butthurt about this I will claim that everyone else is doing this, not me.

Haters gonna hate.

Not a teacher, just not too lazy to do some fact checking. I guess I am also butthurt that reading about all this makes people think I must be a teacher or in a union...

Sure they have it good, but it is not all sunshine and unicorns like many of the haters here think.

BTW, want to save big money on the cost of education get rid of funding for the Catholic School Boards (put in place by Bill Davis, a Conservative...). Roll it into the public boards and kids can go to church on Sunday off of the taxpayers dime to learn about their deity of choice. No real world cuts can save anywhere near as much as this!

 

[crankcall]

I’m butthurt the signs are about Doug cutting the purse strings. The union has gone after EVERY govt in the last decade or more . Ask Dalton how his govt coped ( hint give them what they want or they’ll make your life hell)


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com

 

[Mad Mike]

I teach both in-classroom and online courses. We have a whole suite of educational designers that work with us. In class courses allow students to "socialise" in a way that online courses don't.

I'm pretty strong in this area too -- we may even do the same work. ILT is is fosters collaboration and group work skills -- socialization (in the context of interpersonal skills) is a set of skills that need to be taught independently -- they do not magically develop by putting a cohort into a classroom, and they do not get overlooked by well designed LMS delivered courses.

Given the choice, most online students won't switch cams on for skype like sessions so missing out on facial expression cues, professional banter and all sorts of little things that you and I take for granted as social skills.

If you're using primitive tools and content, I will agree with you. But that's really a matter for designers, or in the case of VILT training instructors to fly IFR. Well designed LMS courses include interaction, breakout rooms, and engagement monitors.

Online courses have their place for people changing careers or busy professionals or students with schedule issues. If a student doesn't have a schedule issue then I tell them to take the in class course. There are skills that you learn there that aren't just the subject matter. I'm not just interested in teaching a student my subject topic, I want them to be a better all-round student once they leave here.

It's not just schedule -- it's variety, parental engagement, student centric learning pathways, curated content that can augments the core curriculum. Believe it or not there are plenty of people (kids too) with learning appetite that exceeds what the curriculum can deliver. I've seen kids learn to play musical instruments, learn to build robots, teach themselves programming languages using LMS. Go ask a kid to learn how to do something -- chances are their first choice is an on line 'how to' video off YouTube. In the simplest form this is Online learning.

Edit: I will say though that e-learning has come a long way. I just don't think it's an appropriate style of teaching for high school kids and younger though for the reasons above.

I agree that e-learning is in a transitional state, and just like range of junk-to-excellent we see in teachers, same goes for eLearning content. It is evolving, I've seen, used and delivered some absolutely fantastic stuff.

Edit #2. I have no beef with teachers. I have a big beef with the system that does not prepare students well for higher education. We get students with somewhat fluid and muddy ideas about the concepts of deadlines, plagiarism, study habits, personal responsibility etc. Also, inflated grades are rampant.

Nor do I blame teachers. I blame their union for dabbling in issues that are out of scope (course delivery, class sizes, school opens and closes, worker accountability), and the gov't for not having the stones to do the peoples work.

 

[Mad Mike]

Lots of butthurt in this thread…. What I am butthurt about…

• I am butthurt that I don’t have the same pension the teachers do, butthurt that I don’t pay 10% of my salary towards my pension. Same as OMERS for firefighters, cops, etc.
• I am butthurt that someone would dare to ask for raises based on cost of living.
• I am butthurt that I don’t get paid for 10 months of work spread over 12 months, not 12 months pay with 2 months off.
• I am butthurt that I do not require two bachelors degrees (Ontario) to work in my field, six years of education (4 year degree plus 2 year teachers college degree).
• I am butthurt my pay is not based on my education level (five payscales based on the education level) and to get to the top pay scale (that everyone thinks all teachers are at) I actually need the equivalent in education to a masters degree (above the two bachelors) in AQs or a full real masters.
• I am butthurt that people don’t think I am lazy because a small percentage of the people in my profession are lazy (like all professions).
• I am butthurt that I don’t have to pay out of pocket for the classes (AQs or masters) to get the additional education to make me better at my job and to move up said payscale.
• I am butthurt that I get paid more in most professions’ education level to education level than teachers.
• I am butthurt that the above mentioned lazy teachers are lazy and they make no where near the top scale because they are too lazy to go back to school for a master (or the equal in AQs).
• I am butthurt that I do not have to pay out of pocket to properly supply my classroom.
• I am butthurt that I do not have to deal with crazy parents and students.
• I am butthurt that women can make a good living in a profession.
• I am butthurt because I think someone has it better than me, but I chose to not do what they are doing or make my life better...instead I just want them to get less.
• I am also butthurt about other things, just sick of typing the list.

Mostly I am butthurt because I am a conservative that bases my opinion on a narrative, I am told what to think based on alternative facts or maybe just being too lazy to do some research—just needs to fit the narrative, that's what is important. Likely butthurt because I am a narcissist that only cares about my situation and I really enjoy my schadenfreude. I am so butthurt about this I will claim that everyone else is doing this, not me.

Haters gonna hate.

Not a teacher, just not too lazy to do some fact checking. I guess I am also butthurt that reading about all this makes people think I must be a teacher or in a union...

Sure they have it good, but it is not all sunshine and unicorns like many of the haters here think.

BTW, want to save big money on the cost of education get rid of funding for the Catholic School Boards (put in place by Bill Davis, a Conservative...). Roll it into the public boards and kids can go to church on Sunday off of the taxpayers dime to learn about their deity of choice. No real world cuts can save anywhere near as much as this!

I think you may have been exhausted from thinking up all that butthurt instead of looking up the facts. You should have said.."Not a teacher, just not too lazy to do some fact checking."