Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle? | Page 276 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

Here's how you do an electric van:

browsing specifications on their website ... As usual for european-design vans, there are a number of combinations of length L and height H available, but it doesn't look like the detailed specs are available yet.

Rough comparison to my own Ram Promaster / Fiat Ducato which is a "H1 L2" in Fiat's terminology (lowest roof, second-shortest length) ...
Height 2.4 metres (the lowest they list) is not far from what I have (low roof Ducato is 2.3 metres tall) - I can manage that.
Overall length 5.1 metres (shortest they list) - about 300mm shorter than my "L2", about 200mm longer than Ducato "L1". That's manageable, too.
Interior volume 9.0 m3 (smallest they list) - smallest Ducato is 8.0 m3, second-smallest (mine) is 10.0 m3 ... so it's pretty close.

Battery capacity ranges from 44 kWh to 133 kWh, you choose.
Range up to 350 km ... this would surely be for the low-roof configuration with the biggest available battery in that size. There's not enough detail yet to establish which battery configurations are available in which vehicle configurations. But still ... 350 km range is good, even if that is the WLTP (read: optimistic) range. 133 kWh is twice the capacity of the one and only battery choice in the Transit.

Fishing out the ballpark weight of the van from specs ... Heaviest GVW = 4.25 t, max payload = 2.1 T, means that version (whichever one it is, they don't say) weighs 2.15 t ... this is not way out of line with what a normal combustion-engine van weighs!

GM's BrightDrop 600 is the other purpose-designed electric van that will be on the market soon ... but doesn't look like there is much public information about it yet. Appears to be one size only, much bigger than what I have, comparable to the biggest Arrival (or the biggest Transit, Ducato, Sprinter).
 
as the great Elon says, making prototypes is easy. everybody does it.

Its getting it to production that is the killer.


I'd reserve any judgement until a production version arrives.
 
SunnY S said:
The Metris? I had a really good look at one of those. What a disappointing, overpriced overrated piece of junk.

I'm convinced people get swayed by the badge on the grill.


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Might like it because I’m polish....I dunno.

Always taught that MB is the end all be all.

@oioioi will understand.... ‘bez gwiazdy nie ma jazdy’

Roughly translated....without the star there’s no ride.

thankfully I’ve never subscribed to that mentality. But know plenty people that do no matter the cost to their finances.
 
Brian P said:
And, we now know more about the Rivian - they've added a lot of detail to their website: R1T - Rivian
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Rivian had my interest. Like 2 years ago, but so far they appear to be an instagram car company. I don't want to see pictures of where you took your one prototype. Or maybe it's a ponzi car company like Tesla. No, I'd rather go with the one that's more interested in delivering vehicles to customers, rather than pre-selling the run and waiting 3 years before building car number 2.
 
SunnY S said:
as the great Elon says, making prototypes is easy. everybody does it.

Its getting it to production that is the killer.
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And what was his first "production" car? A Lotus Elise chassis with an electric drivetrain bodged into it.

Goalposts: moved. Again.
 
JTR said:
Rivian had my interest. Like 2 years ago, but so far they appear to be an instagram car company. I don't want to see pictures of where you took your one prototype. Or maybe it's a ponzi car company like Tesla. No, I'd rather go with the one that's more interested in delivering vehicles to customers, rather than pre-selling the run and waiting 3 years before building car number 2.
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I know who built the automation equipment in their body weld shop at the old Mitsubishi plant in Normal, IL. They've had prototypes running around for a while. They had early prototypes in "Long Way Up" in order to learn lessons. They've got a contract with Amazon to build 100,000 delivery vans for them over the next few years. They've been running pre-production vehicles down the line to debug the production equipment for a few months. Start of production is supposed to be next month ... although the current chip shortage that is screwing up the entire auto industry (including myself) may play havoc with that just like it has for everyone else.
 
All I'm saying is I refused to be swayed by preproduction show off models. Interesting to look at for sure. Lots of companies have prototype mules running around with neat features and impressive tech.

Look at the Sony Vision for example, that thing is a thing of beauty.

But anybody can make a prototype and make all kinds of claims. Even the Rivian.

When I see them in production which is Hell for any new car company built from the ground up,

then I can reserve final judgement.
 
FullMotoJacket said:
And you've been living under a rock since then? Internet went down?

www.businessinsider.com

Rivian's R1T pickup has an air compressor, a built-in cooler under the bed, and a tailgate you can control through an app

Rivian released new details about its upcoming electric pickup, the R1T, including its overall size and other fun features.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com
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Did I miss the release of the production vehicle then??? Where is the nearest dealer? Oh right you buy it on the internet, so does a man from the internet come and service it for you when it breaks?

They neve gave Tucker this much time before hauling his ass into court, and he actually had production running by the time the feds raided him.
 
Another issue I'm taking with companies like rivian, but especially Tesla, really it was tesla's customer base that allowed this to become a thing, but it's this new sales model. It used to go like this, and for 99% of manufacturers, it still does. You see pictures of a car, you like it, so you go test drive, see, feel, smell etc. NEGOTIATE!!! Within a week, you have a car you love, in your driveway, maybe 3-6 months if you decided to order your own spec.

The new model goes like this, they show you a picture on the internet, you say oooh shiny. Then they build one car, show it off on a stage and break a window. You say OOOooooh shut up and take my money. They say Suuurre hehehe, then you say when do I get my car, and they're like meh whenever. 3 years later, the first time you ever get to sit in one, you're already committed whether it's crap or not, whether you still like the car or not. You paid full sticker before you smelled the interior. And that's just with Tesla, the company that already has the capacity to build w/etf they think of.
 
JTR said:
Another issue I'm taking with companies like rivian, but especially Tesla, really it was tesla's customer base that allowed this to become a thing, but it's this new sales model. It used to go like this, and for 99% of manufacturers, it still does. You see pictures of a car, you like it, so you go test drive, see, feel, smell etc. NEGOTIATE!!! Within a week, you have a car you love, in your driveway, maybe 3-6 months if you decided to order your own spec.

The new model goes like this, they show you a picture on the internet, you say oooh shiny. Then they build one car, show it off on a stage and break a window. You say OOOooooh shut up and take my money. They say Suuurre hehehe, then you say when do I get my car, and they're like meh whenever. 3 years later, the first time you ever get to sit in one, you're already committed whether it's crap or not, whether you still like the car or not. You paid full sticker before you smelled the interior. And that's just with Tesla, the company that already has the capacity to build w/etf they think of.
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Not quite true.

Based on an experience with my friend you give an initial deposit to reserve a spot, this is refundable. When your production spot becomes available they contact you and you provide a larger 2nd deposit and confirm your build order. Your vehicle should be delivered in a matter of months.

No reason you can’t test drive it prior to giving second deposit, unless you were perhaps in the first batch of orders. Test vehicle may be harder to locate?
 
Evoex said:
Not quite true.

Based on an experience with my friend you give an initial deposit to reserve a spot, this is refundable. When your production spot becomes available they contact you and you provide a larger 2nd deposit and confirm your build order. Your vehicle should be delivered in a matter of months.

No reason you can’t test drive it prior to giving second deposit, unless you were perhaps in the first batch of orders. Test vehicle may be harder to locate?
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So as I said, the first time you ever touch your car...
 
JTR said:
So as I said, the first time you ever touch your car...
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Only once have I ever bought the actual car I test drove (and that was because it happened to be a demo). Representative model is good enough for me. If there are issues with my specific copy, we can address those at the time of handover. Dealerships add a lot of overhead to the vehicle that by necessity get passed along to the consumer.

As EV's need less routine maintenance, the service shop that makes most of the dealership money is going to have less to do and the dealership model is going to look worse every passing year.

I am slightly surprised that Tesla hasn't gone to vehicle as a service yet where you get "a" car, not "your" car. The model probably doesn't work for them as they would have way too much downtime with all of the busted cars in the fleet.
 
The model is pretty accurate. Especially the loss of negotiation. It kind of goes along with what I call the "Toronto buyer" real estate model. It goes like this, House in Hamilton ghetto lists at $550k, which is probably already about 300k more than the crack infested neighbourhood should command. Toronto buyer doesn't know better though, and they negotiate backwards In the big smoke. So they come in and say I won't give you a penny less than 850, and you better take it, or I'll go higher. Gentrification ensues etc.
 
JTR said:
The model is pretty accurate. Especially the loss of negotiation. It kind of goes along with what I call the "Toronto buyer" real estate model. It goes like this, House in Hamilton ghetto lists at $550k, which is probably already about 300k more than the crack infested neighbourhood should command. Toronto buyer doesn't know better though, and they negotiate backwards In the big smoke. So they come in and say I won't give you a penny less than 850, and you better take it, or I'll go higher. Gentrification ensues etc.
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The dealership model is changing rapidly. Many dealers have switched to one price, no negotiation tactics. Manufacturers are moving into direct to consumer sales models, using the dealer network just for delivery and final paperwork. This isn't for increased profits, but what their market research says is the best for consumer satisfaction.

Theory is consumers are tired (rightfully) of the old model of haggling for hours over what is effectively pennies. People want an upscale experience instead of going to a flea market.
 
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