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Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?
- Thread starter PrivatePilot
- Start date
Their location, their funding, their design choices, their distribution model. These all parallel other tech companies and diverge from auto companies. It's not good or bad, it just is.
The point about the uncompetitive design elements is to reveal Tesla's engineering approach and their priorities. Their low level of refinement on some significant aspects of the design will end up contributing to a poorer user experience in various ways over time. It's not only about cost and weight.
The point about the uncompetitive design elements is to reveal Tesla's engineering approach and their priorities. Their low level of refinement on some significant aspects of the design will end up contributing to a poorer user experience in various ways over time. It's not only about cost and weight.
Location? .... Fremont? You know who used to be there before them? OK, perhaps you are referring to HQ in Silicon Valley ... I am not sure that's relevant. Funding? .... How else would you fund a car company starting today? Is there any other way, one can start a car company today, without having tens of billions to your disposal? Design choices? Elaborate pls ... yes they use large iPad screen and use OTA communication ... but soon everyone will be doing the same. This is where cars are going ... whether Tesla or legacy OEM. Distribution model ... Don't you think that if all legacy car companies could get themselves out of dealer's hands they 'd all do it, in a heartbeat. They just cannot do so easily without brewing legal battles. Tesla still has to battle in courts to sell without dealer's network, which quite frankly is nuts. So all in all, I don't see where any of this would disqualify them to be called a car company ...
I see perhaps your underlying point ... we will have to see whether this will turn out true, because so far the users have not had a bad experience overall (with model S and X), nor their cars drive badly at all. It's almost like their customer base so far has not cared about panel gaps ... yet, everyone is telling them that they should be horrified by them .... I think many people still fail to so beyond certain things legacy OEM's have established over the decades. In the end, I think, it will land somewhere in the middle ... Tesla will have to change some things in the future, but on the other hand their customers will never care about things, other brands became so good at.
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It's not like there's some formal formal categorization method for what is or isn't a car company. Mostly because it doesn't matter. But Tesla sells cars so they're a car company. What people are saying is that they resemble tech companies far more than car companies.
A few more reasons why this characterization is valid: Power source (duh). Disruptive nature of the products,. The closed-loop service model (mostly resembling Apple). At one point leading driverless tech development - a business model which derives revenue from user data rather than product sales.
It's not an argument about an absolute truth one way or another, it's just a interesting perspective to look at Tesla's operation from.
A few more reasons why this characterization is valid: Power source (duh). Disruptive nature of the products,. The closed-loop service model (mostly resembling Apple). At one point leading driverless tech development - a business model which derives revenue from user data rather than product sales.
It's not an argument about an absolute truth one way or another, it's just a interesting perspective to look at Tesla's operation from.
Tesla already buys plenty of components from traditional suppliers to the rest of the auto industry. Perhaps they should have outsourced manufacturing of the entire bodyshell and interior to a traditional supplier to the rest of the auto industry, e.g. Magna, let them do their thing, and focused on the aspects that they did get right (electronics, by the sounds of it).
Magna already manufactures body-in-white and large subassemblies of same to existing auto manufacturers. Matter of fact, I have to go visit one such plant tomorrow ...
Magna already manufactures body-in-white and large subassemblies of same to existing auto manufacturers. Matter of fact, I have to go visit one such plant tomorrow ...
Yep, that's a good point of course ... or they could as well ask them to do the whole car. I guess they are caught in the middle ... some people, I am sure will tell them, you need to produce your own circuit boards (considering the gems on them ...), other people will say contract the whole damn car and focus on mechanical design and anything to do with electrical components design and production. I am sure they have those debates 24/7, it probably never ends ....
That I have no problem to agree with, of course. Te resemblance is definitely strong ...
Welp, looks like all that world class electronic hardware is going to slowly wilt away as the mastermind responsible for it all is leaving for Intel.
https://wccftech.com/former-amd-zen-athlon64-cpu-architect-jim-keller-joins-intel/
Though I suppose Tesla could outsource their boards to Intel. LOL ya right.
Tesla response.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-explains-model-3-build-munro-teardown-analysis/
TL/DR
He tore down an early sample. They have made many gains.
No doubt Tesla was listening. (Wonder if they paid for the report??) They have certainly been working on improving build tolerances and QC in general.
The designed-in headaches are harder to deal with. The latest one is that the enormous glass roof/rear window has been cracking. I'm not surprised ... glass has different thermal expansion and stiffness characteristics from the steel structure that it's attached to.
The designed-in headaches are harder to deal with. The latest one is that the enormous glass roof/rear window has been cracking. I'm not surprised ... glass has different thermal expansion and stiffness characteristics from the steel structure that it's attached to.
As long as they right the wrongs, and keep improving, no reason why they can't prosper.
Kia and Hyundai early models were once atrocious designs with shoddy build quality. Remember the Pony and Stellar?
Look at them now.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Tesla is a new 'car company'. They entered a mature market -- the first car company to do so in 30+ years.
They are facing strong financial headwinds and according to most analysts will likely end up merging with a large competitor or reorganizing under bankruptcy according to most analysts. Their apparent strengths are in electronics, battery power & propulsion, & marketing, financing, weaknesses appear to be industrial design, fiscal controls (spending), and manufacturing.
It's hard to get everything right, the car biz is complicated. It's probably best for all if Tesla merged with a more capable manufacturer. Let them focus on propulsion, storage, and marketing -- let the merger partner look after the industrial design and production.
Time will tell.
For various reasons, I can't see any such merger (with an existing auto manufacturer) happening. No one would want the liabilities associated with that transaction. (Warranty on the existing fleet, failure to deliver on autopilot promises, half-baked product, half-baked production equipment, etc). A merger with a big player outside the auto industry ... maybe.
I think they are mostly over the hump on getting Model 3 production going.
I think they are mostly over the hump on getting Model 3 production going.
There's no reason why they can't survive as a niche maker and premium brand. And still make lots of money.
It's Musk trying to go mass market so fast that could sink him. Mind you he does have an impressive product that few makers can match at this point.
It's Musk trying to go mass market so fast that could sink him. Mind you he does have an impressive product that few makers can match at this point.
Another manufacturer would also have the their legacy dealership network who'd have to get a cut of the pie. But this question is another situation where looking at Tesla as a tech company may open up perspectives we wouldn't see by looking at them as a car company.
Might Apple or Amazon be interested in buying Tesla? Apple is overstocked with iPhone Xs, their sales continue to decline, they are flush with cash and had explored a car of their own not very long ago, so hell yeah. Now this Munro report gives any potential buyer a huge advantage in the form of a guidebook uncovering everything that needs to be fixed, technically, with the car.
No doubt Tesla is in a real pinch right now. One of the ways tension can be relieved from that tight spot is in production quality, and considering where Tesla was on quality to begin with, I would stay away from any Model 3s right now like the plague. If I had a reservation in line for the 3 I'd gift it to Sunny LOL.
I'm glad they're improving, but they still sold that crap he tore down to the public. I know Musk wanted to shorten the cycle, but there is a good reason to get things running at a respectable level before you start shipping product.
Perhaps, but remember, the early shipments were all sent to the rabid Tesla fanboys who would be very forgiving.
Really? Because of panel gaps and heavy body shell? .... I have not seen anything yet which would make me cancel a reservation if I had one. The things most EV buyers are concerned (Ev drive train including battery) about is clearly better than anybody else's at this point. Panel gap? ... not perfect on my car either, and yet I don't care about it.
The one thing Tesla customers can be sure of is that Tesla will take care of their issues and some more ...
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