Snobike Mike
Banned
Spoken like a true anti.........
What if you paint it pink?
Kinda like saying any motorcycle is a death ride.
Another one-Georgia school shooter released alongside image of him posing with AK-47
- Thread starter -D-
- Start date
Spoken like a true anti.........
What if you paint it pink?
Kinda like saying any motorcycle is a death ride.
daught
Well-known member
Another one-Georgia school shooter released alongside image of him posing with
Sarcasm... Missed it like a true nut.
Sarcasm... Missed it like a true nut.
Snobike Mike
Banned
Snobike Mike
Banned
I am the only one in this thread that has actually posted links/references to any supporting information. Most others just pile on with broad brush superlatives/deflections and calling me nuts or whatever else because I don't agree with more gun controls. Whether anyone acknowledges it or not, at least I can provide numerous sources of information that support my position that more gun control measures will not have a material effect on gun crime rates in the US.
And just to be clear, I didn't say Clinton put side arms in the hands of teachers as part of the job. Here is exactly what I said:
This got D all excited so he piled on and stated that I "blamed" Clinton for "everything".
Not sure what I "blamed" him for (and D hasn't supported his claim) but I certainly did not "blame" Clinton for broad brush "everything" (whatever that means). What I most certainly did was attribute to Clinton's handiwork the plan he implemented that did in fact put guns in schools that both of you scoffed at and most anti's try to transfer/project on the NRA.
No problem sirs:
Snobike Mike
Banned
At least for most of my answers I can reference sources on which I base "my answers for everything". And again, It certainly isn't more gun control.
I provide several suggestions/approaches, all of which were dutifully ignored amongst cries of me being a nut/sociopath, etc. Of course most haven't made any other suggestion other than "more gun controls".
I'm curious where you stand and what suggestions you may have?
Cheers.
How about you put them together in one tidy post so everyone understands your position. I can't quite make out what that is after 8 pages of ranting and raving.
My position is gun control, not banning, just more responsible control so it's not easy for wackos to get their hands on anything and everything they want. period.
I can tell you right now that taking them away from law-abiding citizens isn't a valid one. Even without a 3d printer, there are several guns that are pretty easy to manufacture and are regularly made in the Philippines and Pakistan, just to name a couple of countries with large gun-manufacturing cottage industries. Colt 1911 and Sten can wreak quite a bit of havoc in the wrong hands and can be produced in small workshops. The US government-published terrorist training manual (TM 31-210 Improvised Munitions Handbook) also gives great info on making your own zip guns, explosives and even artillery pieces. That is in public domain and easily downloadable. There was also a guy who made an AK receiver out of an excrement-shovel just to prove that he can. Right now, in Canada, it's easier and cheaper for a criminal to obtain a firearm than for a law-abiding citizen. Grabbing guns from law-abiding citizens won't stop gun violence and even if they can be banned effectively, as a race, we have come up with many fine ways to kill each other.
Oh the grabbing guns from law abiding citizens... the cornerstone of the gun lobbies arguments.
None of the stats when you dig deep prove any of that out.
The Swiss have a large number of guns (roughly half by population compared to the US) but much tighter control than the US (and many of the guns are government issue to militia) and have lower crime and lower gun crime. Tight storage laws and way tighter CC laws BTW.
The US has a lower percentage of gun ownership than 40 years ago, and it continues to DECREASE (not increase like the NRA's misleading stats). This is the percentage of the population that own guns. Guess what, crime rates drop in unison so reduce gun ownership does not increase crime like the NRA will have you believe (or the other way around either).
UK, high crime but a much lower murder rate and much lower gun crime rates. High crime rates are due to the different reporting structures and both US and UK are comparable. Tighter gun control, less gun problems.
Then there is Canada... lower/tighter everything and just right next door.
Or is it for some reason only Americans can buy overseas guns or make their own? Sure it happens everywhere but it will not be for the masses.
The first world comparisons go on and on...none work in favour of the way the US does it now.
The reality is bans will not work, I agree here entirely. Bans are also arbitrary. None of the below takes a current legal gun away....
Storage laws that are enforced and followed do prevent unintended shootings (kids) and things like Sandy Hook (he had access to his mothers guns, she could have prevented the entire thing). Better storage will also take many of the once legal guns out of the hands of criminals (theft) over time, at least make the number lower. One has to ask, whenever a criminal is using a US made gun in the US, how did they get that gun (stolen is one way, another is below)? Storage does not take a gun away from anyone, unless the do not follow the rules.
Tighter rules for who can buy will also help take the guns out of the hands of nut cases in the FUTURE. Also, dirty little secret here, a gun bought legally in an easy to get state with no "tracking"... used for a crime (or many), sold illegally to another criminal, used for a crime, sold..., so tighten this up. This does not take a single currently owned gun away from anyone. Just makes it harder for the wrong people to buy in the future.
Drug test for CC would be a great way in the US since to cut this back from people who should not have a CC permit, as I noted before in another post. They have no issue with drug tests from a rights perspective to work minimum wage. Why should a minimum wage job have a higher standard than CC? Will not take the gun away just ones ability to carry it around. Any narcotics, any depression drugs, etc. no CC permit. How is this bad?
Stats show tighter regs have positive results and if done right will not take a gun away from anyone that rightfully has one.
At the same time, sure criminals are not going to comply, but this thread (and things like Sandy Hook) are about psychos and legal guns...
Ban cars and you'll eliminate all car accident fatalities. Ban bikes and you'll eliminate all motorcycle fatalities. Great argument, bud 
As for your tighter storage regulations.... I could cut through any residential grade gun safe in under 5 minutes. In this day and age where a terrorist is willing to buy a farm and register a farming business just so he can buy fertilizer for explosives, 5min with an angle grinder doesn't seem like much work. Of course, a responsible gun owner will keep guns locked away from any children too young to learn about and practice gun safety. There are charges that can be levied against those that don't but we don't need laws to tell us that.
As for your tighter storage regulations.... I could cut through any residential grade gun safe in under 5 minutes. In this day and age where a terrorist is willing to buy a farm and register a farming business just so he can buy fertilizer for explosives, 5min with an angle grinder doesn't seem like much work. Of course, a responsible gun owner will keep guns locked away from any children too young to learn about and practice gun safety. There are charges that can be levied against those that don't but we don't need laws to tell us that.Ban cars and you'll eliminate all car accident fatalities. Ban bikes and you'll eliminate all motorcycle fatalities. Great argument, bud
See any talk of regulating goes into the ban ban ban ban what about terrorists argument... You do have a fantastic point though! You have to have a LICENSE to drive a car, you have to have a LICENSE to ride a motorcycle. Including a test! We still have accidents, yes but ARE YOU saying we don't need licenses or are you saying because there are still accidents the entire concept of a drivers licenses is bogus? A license is a form of regulation, which is what most people are talking about! So thanks for proving out MY point! They need more regulation, thanks again.
For storage, in the US yes they do need someone to tell them about (and enforce) proper storage otherwise Sandy Hook etc. would not be happening. On top of that due to how THEY store guns in many states a simple B&E in the US with no tools may result in stolen guns. Even in a simple safe that YOU can cut open in 5 minutes the average tweeker will move on since they are looking for fast with high returns, they will switch to the jewelry box, 5 minutes (never mind the sparks and noise) to get the safe open is an eternity, and they are not even sure what is inside. Laying out on the coffee table or in the night stand, easy and fast.
-D-
Banned
The US is a lost cause.
That will never change.
There have been enough mass slaughters on every level.
If the last one with little kids did not force a change then nothing else will.
There is too much money involved coupled with fear and entitlement along with low IQ's do you see anything changing.
The response was, let's arm all the teachers. Right, just what those kids need. Some ****** off teacher or teacher on meds etc...
I remember last year a US Congressman wanted to pass a bill in Florida to allow open or cc in bars. Right, lets just give the drunk guys some guns along with the stand your ground laws. What can go wrong there?
I have had decent conversation with a few older gentlemen from Texas. The are Libertarians and believe in guns for "everyone".
They asked what our gun laws are like, I told them and they were shocked that we don't have LOTS OF CRIME. They sited that when their counties are armed the crime rates go down. We actually had a really decent conversation. I can see their point and they sounded like very responsible ppl. They wanted people to be checked and doubled checked right down to their toe nails. These guys wanted regulations and to ensure the guns are well controlled. The way they spoke, I had no issues because they were able to see both sides and implement sensible ideas to protect both sides.
Now here is the kicker. I asked them why do ppl need machine guns and armour piercing bullets. They said, they don't. They said the machine guns are fun to shoot at the range but that's it.
I asked about the NRA, their response is those are a bunch of nutters that are making the rest of us look bad.
At the end of the day, Canada is an awesome country and if you want to have your freedom to carry your weapons of mass human destruction just because you feel that you have the right to, then go right ahead and move to Alabama and enjoy a society of like minded people.
I wish you guys would put your energy towards freedom fighting and go after the government on taxation and the reckless spending of our taxes e.g. G20 summit or whatever G summit it was.
I want a pet cobra and a pet lion but guess what. It is banned. Why?????????????
What happened to my rights and freedoms???????
That will never change.
There have been enough mass slaughters on every level.
If the last one with little kids did not force a change then nothing else will.
There is too much money involved coupled with fear and entitlement along with low IQ's do you see anything changing.
The response was, let's arm all the teachers. Right, just what those kids need. Some ****** off teacher or teacher on meds etc...
I remember last year a US Congressman wanted to pass a bill in Florida to allow open or cc in bars. Right, lets just give the drunk guys some guns along with the stand your ground laws. What can go wrong there?
I have had decent conversation with a few older gentlemen from Texas. The are Libertarians and believe in guns for "everyone".
They asked what our gun laws are like, I told them and they were shocked that we don't have LOTS OF CRIME. They sited that when their counties are armed the crime rates go down. We actually had a really decent conversation. I can see their point and they sounded like very responsible ppl. They wanted people to be checked and doubled checked right down to their toe nails. These guys wanted regulations and to ensure the guns are well controlled. The way they spoke, I had no issues because they were able to see both sides and implement sensible ideas to protect both sides.
Now here is the kicker. I asked them why do ppl need machine guns and armour piercing bullets. They said, they don't. They said the machine guns are fun to shoot at the range but that's it.
I asked about the NRA, their response is those are a bunch of nutters that are making the rest of us look bad.
At the end of the day, Canada is an awesome country and if you want to have your freedom to carry your weapons of mass human destruction just because you feel that you have the right to, then go right ahead and move to Alabama and enjoy a society of like minded people.
I wish you guys would put your energy towards freedom fighting and go after the government on taxation and the reckless spending of our taxes e.g. G20 summit or whatever G summit it was.
I want a pet cobra and a pet lion but guess what. It is banned. Why?????????????
What happened to my rights and freedoms???????
Snobike Mike
Banned
Except Obama and crew wanted to enact a.....wait for it........BAN. (and I'm pretty sure terrorists are already banned, which I agree they should be, but it doesn't seem to always work out so well)
You can own either without a license and you don't even have to register it. The fundamental reason why you need both for vehicles is that you are using public roads. Criminals don't get licenses nor do they register them. Last I checked It's not legal to use guns out on the streets (unless you're a criminal in which case the laws don't matter)
Fixed it for ya.
. Why is this important to firearms owners? Because registration leads to confiscation. If you jump on that we'll discuss further.So storage laws are the answer? As Firestart already pointed out, as I have much earlier, locks only keep honest people out. Does locking cars stop car theft? Nope.
Do you really thing a psycho will actually not perform the crime with the absence of a firearm? A criminal intent on doing evil will simply exchange one tool for another to get what they want. Massacre's occurred in history long before firearms were ever invented.
I have yet to see Obama speak on banning, requiring background checks, or storage laws for my wifes pressure cooker..........
I never said I was against licensing. As long as it's on a will-issue basis where the police has to back up any rejections either through recent violent criminal history or violent/self-destructive mental issues. None of that "So you like action movies? No PAL for you, buddy" crap that we have to go through now. Also make home defense a legitimate reason to own a gun. Currently if you told the interviewer that you'd use a gun to defend yourself and your family under ANY (and yes, I really mean ANY) circumstances, your application would get rejected.
I'm glad you brought Sandy Hook into this argument. The killer wasn't a tweaker who just broke into a home. He had physical access to the safe. http://www.harborfreight.com/heavy-duty-4-1-2-half-inch-angle-grinder-91223.html $20 and 5min of work and he's ready to commit his act of terrorism. I used an existing case of domestic terrorism where the sociopath literally bought a farm and registered a business before he went fertilizer-shopping to illustrate how far those mass murderers are willing to go in order to commit their acts. The cutest one is the one where they are pushing for idiotic mag capacity restrictions like we have here. I could convert any neutered mag back to its original capacity in 2min. Full capacity mags can also be printed and would be good enough to use for a school shooting or something along those lines. The reason I keep my mags within legal capacity is that I'm a law-abiding citizen. A murderer of any kind won't be afraid of any gun bans or equipment restrictions. He's already out to commit bloody murder.. Duh!
Snobike Mike
Banned
What was even cuter was in their haste after Sandy Hook to ram gun control legislation through (one might ask the question of why were they in such a rush......), certain states attempted to enact legislation that would make police magazines illegal as well!
Of course, then they had to go back to the drawing board and give police exemptions to this. That farce was one of many that was worth a good giggle.....
Out of all demographic groups, legitimate firearm owners are the least likely to commit a criminal offense. For the statistical abnormalities, there are laws to punish them when they step out of line.
Snobike Mike
Banned
If the "wacko's" and "irresponsible" people follow the laws, then yes, they are included in the term "law abiding"= those that follow laws.
Of course one could argue that anyone who lives in a relatively free/democratic society and yet their words/actions push "potentially guilty in the future" until "proven innocent (forever?)" and therefore should have restrictions/sanctions placed upon them is not only irresponsible, but extremely dangerous.
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So you'd let mentally unstable but law abiding citizens have guns???. Most whackos "abided by the law" before they snapped, despite many of them exhibiting behaviour that does not correlate with responsible gun ownership.
So then, here's where you have totally lost credibility. Gun Control means just that...controlling who has access to guns and which guns they have access to, lessening the risk to the many by the few. That's what sensible countries do anyway...like Canada for instance.
So then, here's where you have totally lost credibility. Gun Control means just that...controlling who has access to guns and which guns they have access to, lessening the risk to the many by the few. That's what sensible countries do anyway...like Canada for instance.
And you keep ignoring the fact that I am in favor of a sensible gun control scheme.. Timely, "will-issue" system for those who don't have a history of violent crime or destructive/self-destructive mental issues, with the onus on the issuing agency to provide proof as to why they should not issue the license to the said individual in case of a rejection.
