Another one-Georgia school shooter released alongside image of him posing with AK-47

[Snobike Mike]

Forum Sponsor

I think gun control could have an effect on the murder rate in the US yes.

.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/08/0...drops-as-firearms-sales-soar/?test=latestnews

Amid calls nationwide for stricter gun control laws, Virginia is experiencing a unique trend: the state's gun-related crime is declining but firearms sales are increasing.#
Firearms sales rose 16 percent to a record 490,119 guns purchased from licensed gun dealers#in 2012, according to#sales estimates#obtained by the#Richmond Times-Dispatch.
During the same period, major crimes committed with firearms dropped 5 percent to 4,378.
"This appears to be additional evidence that more guns don't necessarily lead to more crime," said Thomas R. Baker, an assistant professor at Virginia Commonwealth University's L. Douglas Wilder School of Government and Public Affairs who specializes in research methods and criminology theory.
"It's a quite interesting trend given the current rhetoric about strengthening gun laws and the presumed effect it would have on violent crimes," Baker told the newspaper. "While you can't conclude from this that tougher laws wouldn't reduce crime even more, it really makes you question if making it harder for law-abiding people to buy a gun would have any effect on crime."
". . . all those extra guns can actually work to lower crime . . ."
- Philip Van Cleave, president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League
But he cautioned against drawing any conclusions that more guns in the hands of Virginians are causing a corresponding drop in gun crime.
Josh Horwitz, executive director of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, said that the real question is how many guns are sold without a background check.
"In other words, if people who buy those guns and have a background check, and keep those guns and don't sell them, then you would not expect that those guns would affect the crime rate," Horwitz told the newspaper. "The important analysis is not the total number of guns sold with a background check, but rather the number of guns sold without a background check."
Virginia State Police conduct instant background checks on everyone seeking to purchase a gun through a federally licensed firearms dealer in Virginia.
The newspaper said it had asked Baker in 2012 to examine six years' worth of gun transaction data compiled by Virginia State Police through the Virginia Firearms Transaction Center. He then compared the data with state crime figures for the same period. Baker recently reviewed updated transaction figures obtained by the newspaper and compared them with the years he originally examined.
Philip Van Cleave, president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, said that the data show that most of the guns being sold are "going to decent people".
"That's not going to affect crime and, in fact, all those extra guns can actually work to lower crime because those are going into the hands of (concealed) permit holders or people using them to defend their homes," Van Cleave told the newspaper.

 

[Snobike Mike]

I think gun control could have an effect on the murder rate in the US yes.
.

By Gordon Rupe
Story Leak
June 28, 2013

In a recent study orchestrated by the CDC and carried out by the Institute of Medicine and National Research Council, it was found that individuals involved in violent crimes who defended themselves using techniques other than carrying a gun were more likely to be injured when compared to those who were carrying a concealed firearm.

All-in-all, the Obama ordered report ended up finding more pros than cons in regards to the right to an open or concealed weapon. The report also reminds us of the numerous causes of gun deaths, citing that most gun deaths are at the hands of those who used a gun for their suicide — not homicide. The report highlights the poor state of America’s suffering mental health. The report states that suicide by guns outweighs the amount of deaths caused by violent crimes by 61%.

Anthony Gucciardi recently conducted an interview with Representative Joe Carr from Tennessee on this very issue:



The study then goes on to detail the prevalence of self-defense with a firearm, revealing that:

“Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence [...]. Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year, in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.”

The study also mentions mass shootings, and how these scenarios are the least common shootings of all. The study cites that since 1983, there have been approximately 547 victims and 476 injuries of mass shootings. To put that into perspective, thousands are killed each year from bats and human hands as Anthony Gucciardi has detailed in the mega article ‘A Brief And Bloody History of Gun Control‘.

Video: Debating A Gun Control Fanatic

In closing, this report is a perfect example of the facts outweighing both rumor and engineered public perception. The Second Amendment allows for enhanced self-defense, and most importantly allows law-abiding citizens to defend themselves from criminals.

Source: http://intellihub.com/2013/06/27/woo...ly-save-lives/

Additional sources:

Guns Save Lives

Source: http://intellihub.com/2013/06/27/woo...ly-save-lives/

 

[stevex]

You know the term "gun control" doesn't necessarily = banning all types of weapons or stopping law-abiding citizens from obtaining firearms... a simple background-check should be the BARE minimum for the sale of any type of firearm, and even that has been found lacking in many instances.

Do you honestly believe that by having a little more process, criminal background checks, possibly licensing courses (ala Canada), it would NOT have an affect on gun crime in the US?

Read - THE US.

Comparing Americans to any other people on this planet is a little silly... Guns are obviously not the only side of this problem, there's all sorts of social cultural economic blah blah blah factors to this entire debate....

I'm all for allowing people to have their weapons as long as they're law-abiding and responsible... by making things a little tougher on everyone who wants to go about legally obtaining a firearm, you will reduce the amount of murders by gun. Will it solve the problem? Absolutely not, it's been the Wild West for far too long, and there are too many guns out there on the black market to ever expect gun crime to disappear completely... but even saving 100 lives needlessly lost due to the ease of some nutter walking into a walmart and plunking down some cash and walking out with a gun (of any type) seems like it would be worth entertaining..... it might not seem like a significant number at all to you (your 0.00004% argument makes that abundantly clear) but I imagine if you asked someone whose family member died as a result of a gunshot wound, they might feel a little differently.

 

[Snobike Mike]

I think gun control could have an effect on the murder rate in the US yes.

.

Disarming Realities: As Gun Sales Soar, Gun Crimes Plummet

A couple of new studies reveal the gun-control hypesters’ worst nightmare…more people are buying firearms, while firearm-related homicides and suicides are steadily diminishing. What crackpots came up with these conclusions? One set of statistics was compiled by theU.S. Department of Justice. The other was reported by the Pew Research Center.

According to DOJ’s Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. gun-related homicides dropped 39 percent over the course of 18 years, from 18,253 during 1993, to 11,101 in 2011. During the same period, non-fatal firearm crimes decreased even more, a whopping 69 percent. The majority of those declines in both categories occurred during the first 10 years of that time frame. Firearm homicides declined from 1993 to 1999, rose through 2006, and then declined again through 2011. Non-fatal firearm violence declined from 1993 through 2004, then fluctuated in the mid-to-late 2000s.

And where did the bad people who did the shooting get most of their guns? Were those gun show “loopholes” responsible? Nope. According to surveys DOJ conducted of state prison inmates during 2004 (the most recent year of data available), only two percent who owned a gun at the time of their offense bought it at either a gun show or flea market. About 10 percent said they purchased their gun from a retail shop or pawnshop, 37 percent obtained it from family or friends, and another 40 percent obtained it from an illegal source.

While firearm violence accounted for about 70 percent of all homicides between 1993 and 2011, guns were used in less than 10 percent of all non-fatal violent crimes. Between 70 percent and 80 percent of those firearm homicides involved a handgun, and 90 percent of non-fatal firearm victimizations were committed with a handgun. Males, blacks, and persons aged 18-24 had the highest firearm homicide rates.

The March Pew study, drawn from numbers obtained from the Bureau of Justice Statistics and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, also found a dramatic drop in gun crime over the past two decades. Their accounting shows a 49 percent decline in the homicide rate, and a 75 percent decline of non-fatal violent crime victimization. More than 8 in 10 gun homicide victims in 2010 were men and boys. Fifty-five percent of the homicide victims were black, far beyond their 13 percent share of the population.

Pew researchers observed that the huge amount of attention devoted to gun violence incidents in the media has caused most Americans to be unaware that gun crime is “strikingly down” from 20 years ago. In fact, gun-related homicides in the late 2000s were “equal to those not seen since the early 1960s.”Yet their survey found that 56 percent believed gun-related crime is higher, 26 percent believed it stayed about the same, and 6 percent didn’t know. Only 12 percent of those polled thought it was lower.

The Pew survey found that while women and elderly were actually less likely to become crime victims, they were more likely to believe gun crime had increased in recent years. On the other hand, men, who were more likely to become victims, were more likely know that the gun rate had dropped.

Those gun crime rates certainly aren’t diminishing for lack of supply…at least not for law-abiding legal buyers. Last December, the FBI recorded a record number of 2.78 million background checks for purchases that month, surpassing a 2.01 million mark set the month before by about 39 percent. That December 2012 figure, in turn, was up 49 percent from a previous record on that month the year before. FBI checks for all of 2012 totaled 19.6 million, an annual record, and an increase of 19 percent over 2011.

Firearms sellers can thank the gun-control legislation lobbies for much of this business windfall. Marked demand increases have been witnessed over the past five years thanks to the 2008 and 2012 elections of U.S. history’s most successful, if unintentional, gun salesman as president. The firearms market got a huge added boost after the tragic shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newton, Connecticut activated a renewed legislative frenzy.

If that gun-purchasing fervor has abated with the defeat of several congressional regulation proposals, as I’m sure it has, you surely wouldn’t have known it by witnessing the overwhelmingly enormous annual NRA convention in Houston earlier this month. Attendance was estimated to be more than 70,000 people from all over the country.

Those attendees weren’t all guys either…not by a long shot. Last year, theNational Shooting Sports Foundation reported that participation by women increased both in target shooting (46.5%) and hunting (36.6%) over the past decade. Also, 61% of firearm retailers responding to a NSSF survey reported an increase in female customers. A 2009 NSSF survey indicated that the number of women purchasing guns for personal defense increased a whopping 83 percent.

Is John Lott, the author of “More Guns, Less Crime” right? Does the rapid growth of gun ownership and armed citizens have anything to do with a diminishing gun violence trend? His expansive research concludes that state “shall issue” laws which allow citizens to carry concealed weapons do produce a steady decrease in violent crime. He explains that this is logical because criminals are deterred by the risk of attacking an armed target, so as more citizens arm themselves, danger to the criminals increases.

Whether or not you buy that reasoning, and it does make sense to me, what about the notion that tougher gun laws have or would make any difference? With the toughest gun laws in the nation, Chicago saw homicides jump to 513 in 2012, a 15% hike in a single year. The city’s murder rate is 15.65 per 100,000 people, compared with 4.5 for the Midwest, and 5.6 for Illinois.

Up to 80 percent of Chicago murders and non-fatal shootings are gang- related, primarily young black and Hispanic men killed by other black and Hispanic men. Would tightening gun laws even more, or “requiring” background checks, change these conditions?

Gwainevere Catchings Hess, president of the Black Women’s Agenda (BWA), Inc., an organization that strongly advocates strict gun-control legislation, rightly points out that “In 2009, black males ages 15-19 were eight times as likely as white males the same age, and 2.5 times as likely as their Hispanic peers to be killed in a gun homicide.”

Those are terrible statistics, but here are some others. Today, 72% of black children are born out of wedlock, as are 53% of Hispanic children and 36% of white children. Back in 1965, 25% of black children were born out of wedlock, nearly one-third fewer. As a result, promiscuous rappers, prosperous dope peddlers and street gang leaders are becoming ever more influential role models. It’s probably no big stretch of imagination to correlate such grossly disproportionate crime and victimization rates with comparably staggering rates of single-parent families, those without fathers in particular.

Yet in the general population, and although the agenda-driven media hasn’t noticed, we can be grateful that gun violence has been trending downward since 1993 when it hit its last peak. Don’t want to credit a rise in gun ownership and concealed carry by law-abiding citizens for this good news? Fine. But then, don’t imagine that gun legislation is the reason or answer either. Leave that illusion to gun-control cheerleaders in the media.

 

[Snobike Mike]

You know the term "gun control" doesn't necessarily = banning all types of weapons or stopping law-abiding citizens from obtaining firearms... a simple background-check should be the BARE minimum for the sale of any type of firearm, and even that has been found lacking in many instances.

Do you honestly believe that by having a little more process, criminal background checks, possibly licensing courses (ala Canada), it would NOT have an affect on gun crime in the US?

Read - THE US.

Comparing Americans to any other people on this planet is a little silly... Guns are obviously not the only side of this problem, there's all sorts of social cultural economic blah blah blah factors to this entire debate....

I'm all for allowing people to have their weapons as long as they're law-abiding and responsible... by making things a little tougher on everyone who wants to go about legally obtaining a firearm, you will reduce the amount of murders by gun. Will it solve the problem? Absolutely not, it's been the Wild West for far too long, and there are too many guns out there on the black market to ever expect gun crime to disappear completely... but even saving 100 lives needlessly lost due to the ease of some nutter walking into a walmart and plunking down some cash and walking out with a gun (of any type) seems like it would be worth entertaining..... it might not seem like a significant number at all to you (your 0.00004% argument makes that abundantly clear) but I imagine if you asked someone whose family member died as a result of a gunshot wound, they might feel a little differently.

Criminals don't get licenses, they don't register guns and just don't care about the laws, that's why they are criminals. Killing is already banned,

Back to Sandy hook, Lanza killed his mother, and stole her firearms and then went on a rampage at a school. Just how exactly would any of what you described have stopped him? Well we know the answer, it didn't (and CT has quite strict gun control laws on the books)

And while, yet again, i will state that any murder is horrible, wrong and terrible on all families who go through such a horrific event, gun control just isn't going to materially affect the firearm homicide rates.

And more importantly punishing law abiding citizens through heavy restrictions for the crimes of others is not the answer.

 

[Snobike Mike]

Do you honestly believe that by having a little more process, criminal background checks, possibly licensing courses (ala Canada), it would NOT have an affect on gun crime in the US?

.

I don't believe it will have any material effect but will for sure cause law abiding citizens far more "inconvenience" than is warranted.

A placard featuring children victims of gun violence is displayed during a demonstration in front of the White House on Monday. A new study shows that violent crime has dropped, though many Americans are not aware of the decline. (Jewel Samad / AFP-Getty Images / May 6, 2013

Gun crime has plunged in the United States since its peak in the middle of the 1990s, including gun killings, assaults, robberies and other crimes, two new studies of government data show.

Yet few Americans are aware of the dramatic drop, and more than half believe gun crime has risen, according to a newly released survey by the Pew Research Center.

In less than two decades, the gun murder rate has been nearly cut in half. Other gun crimes fell even more sharply, paralleling a broader drop in violent crimes committed with or without guns. Violent crime dropped steeply during the 1990s and has fallen less dramatically since the turn of the millennium.

The number of gun killings dropped 39% between 1993 and 2011, the Bureau of Justice Statistics reported in a separate report released Tuesday. Gun crimes that weren’t fatal fell by 69%. However, guns still remain the most common murder weapon in the United States, the report noted. Between 1993 and 2011, more than two out of three murders in the U.S. were carried out with guns, the Bureau of Justice Statistics found.

The bureau also looked into non-fatal violent crimes. Few victims of such crimes -- less than 1% -- reported using a firearm to defend themselves.

Despite the remarkable drop in gun crime, only 12% of Americans surveyed said gun crime had declined compared with two decades ago, according to Pew, which surveyed more than 900 adults this spring. Twenty-six percent said it had stayed the same, and 56% thought it had increased.

It’s unclear whether media coverage is driving the misconception that such violence is up. The mass shootings in Newtown, Conn., and Aurora, Colo., were among the news stories most closely watched by Americans last year, Pew found. Crime has also been a growing focus for national newscasts and morning network shows in the past five years but has become less common on local television news.

“It’s hard to know what’s going on there,” said D’Vera Cohn, senior writer at the Pew Research Center. Women, people of color and the elderly were more likely to believe that gun crime was up than men, younger adults or white people. The center plans to examine crime issues more closely later this year.

Though violence has dropped, the United States still has a higher murder rate than most other developed countries, though not the highest in the world, the Pew study noted. A Swiss research group, the Small Arms Survey, says that the U.S. has more guns per capita than any other country.

Experts debate why overall crime has fallen, attributing the drop to all manner of causes, such as the withering of the crack cocaine market and surging incarceration rates.

Some researchers have even linked dropping crime to reduced lead in gasoline, pointing out that lead can cause increased aggression and impulsive behavior in exposed children.

The victims of gun killings are overwhelmingly male and disproportionately black, according to Bureau of Justice Statistics and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data. Compared with other parts of the country, the South had the highest rates of gun violence, including both murders and other violent gun crimes.

Source: http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/n...,3022693.story

 

[D23]

So you're saying that because death rates go up and down, gun control wouldn't decrease those rates further?

Is that what you are saying? Well, not saying. Cut and pasting?

When are you going to start digging yourself up? It's getting worse every time you post something.

LOL

BTW: was one of those sources FOX News?????

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[roadtoruin]

So you're saying that because death rates go up and down, gun control wouldn't decrease those rates further?

Is that what you are saying? Well, not saying. Cut and pasting?

When are you going to start digging yourself up? It's getting worse every time you post something.

LOL

BTW: was one of those sources FOX News?????

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

let me wade into this brewing shartstorm of a conversation, you guys really think more government regulations are going to help the US and gun crime rates?? all the government does is bloat, mismanage, misuse and corrupt. More tools available to them to disarm citizens and control the herd the better for them. cmon wake the **** up, criminals who want guns can and will get guns. end of story. Let's not mention the fact that people can now 3d print weapons and high capacity mags, etc, etc. Wont be long before anyone, anywhere can print a gun in their living room. OH THE HORROR AND CARNAGE THAT WILL ENSUE!!

 

[CruisnGrrl]

It would take a few generations for gun control/education to have a real effect in the usa...

 

[-D-]

Criminals don't get licenses, they don't register guns and just don't care about the laws, that's why they are criminals. Killing is already banned,

And the criminal get their guns from?...stealing them from people, so more guns floating around makes it easier for people to steal them.

Back to Sandy hook, Lanza killed his mother, and stole her firearms and then went on a rampage at a school. Just how exactly would any of what you described have stopped him? Well we know the answer, it didn't (and CT has quite strict gun control laws on the books)

Yes, back to this. You just made my case with your own point. She got killed with her own weapon that was stolen. If she did not have that type of gun sitting around the house then that amount of carnage would not have occurred. Sure, he could have used a shotgun or handgun with a 9-12 clip, but guess what, the kids would have had a chance to run and the adults could have had a chance to overpower him at some point.
A full background check would have revealed mental issues within that home or someone within her immediate circle had mental issues.

And while, yet again, i will state that any murder is horrible, wrong and terrible on all families who go through such a horrific event, gun control just isn't going to materially affect the firearm homicide rates. Uhm, see previous points in bold about owner being killed by their own gun.

And more importantly punishing law abiding citizens through heavy restrictions for the crimes of others is not the answer.
So what are your answers, buy ANY firearm that you want.

Dude, I edited a previous post because I wrote that you sound like someone that watches Fox "news" based on just the words you write project nothing but FEAR. The stuff you spew sounds like talking points from someone else or should I say some organization.

If you are so worried about being oppressed by the Government then you have BIGGER problems than guns to be worried about. You should be more concerned about the taxation rates and the constant outsourcing and "insourcing" of Canadian jobs and technology. How will you buy your guns when you have no job or large shares of your small income is taxed at higher and higher rates.

Please tell us, let's assume that the Government runs amok and tyranny ensues.
What will you and your pals do against their tanks,drones,fighter jets,satellites,troops etc...?

 

[Snobike Mike]

Dude, I edited a previous post because I wrote that you sound like someone that watches Fox "news" based on just the words you write project nothing but FEAR. The stuff you spew sounds like talking points from someone else or should I say some organization. ...?

D, welcome back to the conversation.

I'm not spreading fear because I'm not the one scared of law abiding citizens owning guns. All types of murder are already banned in the US, and yet they still have murders, including with guns which is also banned, go figure. I don't believe gun control would have stopped Lanza (and the US is not void of gun controls, but certainly having more won't stop the next lanza)

Let's take a slightly broader view and look at gun control measures vs. violent crime rates. If you believe gun control will help reduce violent crimes, can you explain why the UK has a violent crime rate that is 4 times that of the US and they have some of the most draconian gun control laws in the world. (UK is around 2100 per 100k vs around 465 per 100K in the US).

 

[Snobike Mike]

Yes, back to this. You just made my case with your own point. She got killed with her own weapon that was stolen. If she did not have that type of gun sitting around the house then that amount of carnage would not have occurred. Sure, he could have used a shotgun or handgun with a 9-12 clip, but guess what, the kids would have had a chance to run and the adults could have had a chance to overpower him at some point.
A full background check would have revealed mental issues within that home or someone within her immediate circle had mental issues.

Actually your case strengthens mine......

Lanza apparently actually tried to buy a gun and was denied. The fact that someone else lawfully owned one and he killed her to steal her firearms does not follow to restrict the law abiding. You see, despite criminal restrictions, he did it anyways (on penalty of strict criminal incarceration assuming he wasn't killed at the scene). Using that logic, for sure there are objects you own that should be restricted because they could be stolen by someone else and used in a crime (I'm assuming you believe that innocent until proven guilty which means you can't punish until you actually commit a crime....).

In fact, Lanza broke at least criminal 40 laws, none of which stopped him. (Maybe if we eliminated cars but not guns he would have had to walk from his mothers house to the school carrying all of that heavy firepower which would also make it far more difficult for him to have achieved what he did - of course he could have just drove the car through the school yard at recess instead......). Lanza had multiple firearms on his trip including a shotgun and handgun so the type he used is irrelevant.

And are you truly suggesting that you'd attack a gun wielding lunatic who was using a shotgun instead of a rifle because you'd have a "chance" without some tool of similar force? You might find that doesn't work so well in real life.....

You can't uninvent the gun. Are you suggesting that the US confiscate 300 million firearms to stop a raving lunatic from killing people?

 

[SONIC]

Back to Sandy hook, Lanza killed his mother, and stole her firearms and then went on a rampage at a school. Just how exactly would any of what you described have stopped him? Well we know the answer, it didn't (and CT has quite strict gun control laws on the books)

He didn't steal anything, he just walked right in and grabbed a bunch of guns that were openly lying around. Perhaps had there been laws in place that said you can't keep guns like that open and available to anybody that walks in the door it may not have happened. I'm sure the main reason why criminals get guns in the first place is because of this very reason, they're just too easy to get, everyone has one lying around, carelessly for them to just steal or legally go out and buy one at a gun show with no requirement to identify themselves, then sell them black market to states that are more restricted with buying guns.

If i'm not mistaken, in Canada you have to have your guns locked up un a vault and hooked up to an alarm system.

Less avaialble, less problems.

 

[Snobike Mike]

He didn't steal anything, he just walked right in and grabbed a bunch of guns that were openly lying around.

The firearms weren't his so taking them is in fact the definition of stealing (compounded by the fact he actually killed his mother).

Perhaps had there been laws in place that said you can't keep guns like that open and available to anybody that walks in the door it may not have happened.

You know the saying "locks only keep honest people out".....

I'm sure the main reason why criminals get guns in the first place is because of this very reason, they're just too easy to get, everyone has one lying around, carelessly for them to just steal or legally go out and buy one at a gun show with no requirement to identify themselves, then sell them black market to states that are more restricted with buying guns.

So 300 million or so firearms are just lying around waiting to be grabbed by bad guys so they can kill. Please have a read at the DOJ, Harvard and PEW Research reports I posted above. You are incorrect. Nevertheless, a criminal performing a criminal act to acquire a firearm is still a criminal act and they clearly don't follow the laws.

If i'm not mistaken, in Canada you have to have your guns locked up un a vault and hooked up to an alarm system.

Less avaialble, less problems.

While we do have safe storage laws in Canada you are not correct in the standard to which they must be stored. Furthermore, a determined criminal will not be deterred by "locking them up". Don't believe me? Does locking cars deter car thiefs? Maybe if we had less cars we'd have less car theft, that makes sense. Get rid of cars from law abiding citizens to reduce theft by non-law abiding citizens.

"Less available less problems". Well I guess that would hold true for pressure cookers, fertilizer and airplanes as well wouldn't it?

 

[ThunderPants]

Armed mentally unstable person. What a combo

Sent from my tablet using my paws

The NRA would have them arm teachers instead of properly vetting people who want to buy guns for a criminal past or history of mental illness. In the US you can be a bat **** crazy psychopath and walk into a gun store and buy an assault rifle with any magazine size you want, a night scope, and an $80 kit to convert it to fully automatic and they will help you carry your purchase to the car. The US has antiquated gun laws but there is too much resistance from the NRA and Republican Party for the common sense solution. And then they wonder why no other developed nation has the same problem with shootings?????

 

[Snobike Mike]

The NRA would have them arm teachers

Actually, an inconvenient truth for the Dems/gun grabbers is that it was Clinton that suggested/implemented that plan for middle schools after another well known massacre and since the middle schools did implement that there have been no mass shootings in any of those middle schools. Can you tell my why texas has relatively low gun crime and yet have very high gun ownership and CCW rates and Chicago for example, a declared "gun free" zone is actually the wild west?

instead of vetting people who want to buy guns for a criminal past or history of mental illness.

Good call, I totally agree that more funding for mental health problems (for which Lanza was flagged but denied treatment...) would be helpful for all society. I also think more funding to chase criminals would be valuable, rather than trying to chase law abiding citizens, making them out to be criminals because they happen to own legal property which some feel is "scary"

In the US you can buy an assault rifle with any magazine size you want, then an $80 kit to convert it to fully automatic from the same gun store. The US has antiquated gun laws but there is too much resistance from the NRA and Republican Party for a common sense solution. [/QUOTE]

Can you tell me what an "assault" rifle is? Is it the same as an "assault" knife or an "assault" pressure cooker? You see, "assault" is a verb, not a noun, but is a very tricky way the media and gun control crowd attempt to make something a lot more "scary" than it really is. The key is "law abiding" citizen.

And then they wonder why no other developed nation has the same problem with shootings?????

This is profoundly untrue. And as reported by Harvard, PEW and DOJ, violent crimes with firearms has been FALLING dramatically in the past 20 years and even with a substantial spike in firearms sales after Sandy Hook, gun crimes are FALLING.

 

[backmarkerducati]

Storage laws???? If you have a mentally ill person (or even children) at home maybe you should not have your arsenal openly available to them? This is likely a good place to start, if people are not smart enough to do it on their own the government needs to step in... Lock them up when not in use, lock them up and do not give anyone else the combo or key or they may be used against you! Sometimes you need to regulate common sense. Many in the US will say I taught my children not to touch them, well I taught my children not to drink poison, I still do not leave it out laying around at home...

As for stats, here are two of my favorites... it all comes back to the usual arguments though, with no regression analysis done by the NRA/Fox/etc.

Switzerland has the next most guns per capita in the world yet they have a low crime rate, so guns work... BUT they have tighter storage laws (see my first paragraph). BUT...many to most of those guns are military issue in prep for an invasion (to trained and drafted ex military, standing militia) and kept at home with trained people--who store them properly and are trained to do so. They have CC BUT it is way harder to get it and you have to have a legit work reason (and feeling like a big man is not one of those reasons...). In other words they are much more tightly regulated than the US and regulation WORKS VERY WELL!

Another, UK has very high violent crime rates and serious gun restrictions so restrictions do not work... BUT the UK records "violent" crimes differently than the US, the US only includes a fraction of the UK crime type stats in their stats. In the end the rates are comparable with the UK facing unique social and border challenges. Murder rate is MUCH lower in the UK BTW, with guns or otherwise.

For your amusement, look what happened regulation wise when a Republican was shot (Brady Bill) then look what happened when a bunch of innocent school children are shot.... very telling.

Regulations do not mean bans as the NRA will tell you. How can any change that keeps "legal" guns out of the hands of insane people and children be bad, but it appears it is? They have no issue submitting to drug tests to work for minimum wage and this does not appear to degrade their constitutional rights... so drug test for CC permits is a good start (why should getting a CC be easier than working for minimum wage?). Storage laws next, regulate the stupid to have common sense. The storage laws will also help reduce the number of stolen (illegal) guns as well... accidental shootings by kids... shootings by troubled people. Sure it is a small percentage so I guess they do not care...

Some final notes, the second amendment is outdated since it was about keeping the government in check when the government had guns and at the most cannons, the people could revolt if they became tyrannical. Good luck fighting tanks, jet fighter planes, cruise missiles and nuclear weapons with some peashooter AR15 today, that makes it outdated. So update it if need be, and now it can say... to feel like a big man and to defend against the boogeyman.

Violent crimes are falling, and this has as much to do with abortion (less unwanted children to grow up without proper parenting) as the number of guns.... I am sure we can come up with a bunch of other ones to take credit for it as well!

BTW percentage of people in the US with guns has also been falling in the last 20 years so again, stats are not what the NRA promote!

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/u...is-down-survey-shows.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[Snobike Mike]

And then they wonder why no other developed nation has the same problem with shootings?????

Except there are other developed nations that have even bigger problems than the US

In the late 1990s, England moved from stringent controls to a
complete ban of all handguns and many types of long guns.
Hundreds of thousands of guns were confiscated from those
owners law‐abiding enough to turn them in to authorities.
Without suggesting this caused violence, the ban’s ineffectiveness
was such that by the year 2000 violent crime had so increased
that England and Wales had Europe’s highest violent
crime rate, far surpassing even the United States. Source - Harvard

 

[backmarkerducati]

Except there are other developed nations that have even bigger problems than the US

UK rates violent crime differently than the US. If you include all the crimes the UK does the rates are comparable, murder rate is much lower. NRA won't tell you that!

 

[D23]

Can you tell me what an "assault" rifle is? Is it the same as an "assault" knife or an "assault" pressure cooker? You see, "assault" is a verb, not a noun bla bla bla

You don't know what an assault rifle is???

Do you know what a motorcycle is? Can you differentiate between that and a motorcar or a motorboat or is that beyond your level of comprehension too?

I can explain it to you, or cut and paste something since cut and past answers apprently have more weight than actual knowledge of a subject.


LOL

Just kidding. I lost interst in your ramblings somewhere between "The second amendment says "tyranny in government" and "do you think gun restrictions will stop all murders"....

Continue.

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