Elephant in the Covid room

[GreyGhost]

@GreyGhost and I agree with everything you said as well...it definitely is a hard time for everyone...another reason why the NDP is lobbying for sick days (although in your wife's friend's situation that wouldn't have done much for them) so people can stay home when they are sick...from what I could tell, the majority of my students had at least one parent home with them the last go around (I know this because many moms dropped in to say hello during the day), but this isn't possible for everyone...

which is why, the unions and even other groups like trustees are lobbying to get teachers/staff/bus drivers vaccinated over the break...it makes sense to get us vaccinated and then we can remain open...I realize the vaccine won't stop us from getting ill, however, it should reduce symptoms and possible detrimental outcomes if we are...

you guys are good to have a conversation with!

on a side note, my hubby is a truck driver so he's been working the whole time...since he mostly does shunt work around the yard(s) with the odd pick up or delivery, he doesn't have to wear his mask too often, only when he enters any building...anyways, he had to 'train' a guy for two days this week and obviously had his mask on while in the truck and when he came home, he's like 'now I understand how you feel after wearing it the whole day"...add a shield and welcome to my world was my reply

It is hard to come up with a good reason to delay vaccinating teachers (or transit drivers or grocery store workers). Province is working on 55 or 60+ right now, I would put actual essential workers on the list after the 60+ are done and bump 55-60 down in priority. I have no idea why Douggies stupid plan has them at the end of Phase 2. At that point it will be summer and little priority is required. You need your second shot by about mid august and that is as good as it gets.

 

[Mad Mike]

Got my 1st shot last night. Woke up feeling rough, aches and pains, zero energy and a mild headache all day. Not so bad this evening, but wow did it kick my ass this morning. Wife had no ill effect.

 

[crankcall]

better a day feeling shite than 2 weeks on a ventilator.

the media is doing no favors , calling the AZ vaccine the dollar store solution, to the point some will 'bauk' at getting it. Pulling out silly stats to breed unfounded fear.

Dougie is looking very tired . I sincerely feel for the man, he is juggling the worst economic impact since 2008 melted, the worst pandemic since the 1900's spanish flu , and his opposition are quite happy to kick sand at him every morning.

 

[jc100]

Got my 1st shot last night. Woke up feeling rough, aches and pains, zero energy and a mild headache all day. Not so bad this evening, but wow did it kick my ass this morning. Wife had no ill effect.

in my house we call that...bourbon

 

[Mad Mike]

in my house we call that...bourbon

I’m familiar with the side effects of that vaccine too. Kinda sums up how I felt today.

 

[Baggsy]

Here's the graph of covid deaths by age in Ontario:

Where do you start cutting special interest groups in line?

Edit to include source: All Ontario: Case numbers and spread

 

[GreyGhost]

Here's the graph of covid deaths by age in Ontario:

Where do you start cutting special interest groups in line?

Current Variants of concern are impacting younger people. Trying to plan based on looking at cumulative stats is a bad idea. The important stats are probably the last week, maybe the last month if you need more data in your sample.

I don't think "special interest" groups should cut in line, but I do believe that there are certain occupations where vaccinating them early helps us all get to the end of this faster.

 

[ifiddles]

@Baggsy and I'm in total agreement to get the elderly, especially those in LTC vaccinated before anyone along with the workers there and in any other health care setting...my variation would be once they're done (which I believe most if not all are), move on to the workers who aren't working from home...

For example, my brother and sisters are all in their 70s and live at home...while I'm thankful that they are all vaccinated, they should have been done after those of us (grocery store workers, factory workers etc) that need to physically go to work...they don't have to go anywhere and can spend a few more months at home while the rest of the working class get their shots...they even agree with me...

There's a few doctors out there on Twitter that are saying the same thing...get rid of the age brackets and get going on those who work in large exposure jobs...

It brings to mind one tweet:
55 year old male working from home - eligible
50 year old male working in a factory- not eligible
Who is the greater risk?

 

[ifiddles]

Also, @Baggsy , if you look at current trends, cases and deaths have reduced greatly in the over 70 crowd, while numbers are increasing in the under 40 crowd...

 

[pfbmgd]

Also, @Baggsy , if you look at current trends, cases and deaths have reduced greatly in the over 70 crowd, while numbers are increasing in the under 40 crowd...

Please post your source and numbers . They killed off most of the elderly in the LTC homes . So the numbers are down .

 

[GreyGhost]

Please post your source and numbers . They killed off most of the elderly in the LTC homes . So the numbers are down .

Not complete but a reasonable source that supports her thoughts.

A person under 50 is dying of COVID-19 in Ontario ICUs every 2.8 days, doctor says

A Toronto critical care doctor says that Ontario’s stay-at-home order does not address the root cause of COVID-19 hospitalizations—adding that in the third wave of the pandemic, a person under the age of 50 is dying on average every 2.8 days.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

Dr. Michael Warner, medical director of critical care at Michael Garron Hospital, shared the Critical Care Services Ontario data on social media Wednesday

According to Warner, in the first wave of the pandemic a patient under the age of 50 died in one of Ontario’s ICUs every six days. In the second wave, it was on average every five days. “In wave three, we are losing one every 2.8 days.”

The number of #COVID ICU patients in Ontario younger than 50 is increasing.

On Feb 28 (end of Wave 2) = 44
As of April 4 (day 34 of Wave 3) = 68

#COVID ICU deaths of those < 50 in Ontario are rising:

Wave 1 (164 days) = 27 or one every 6d
Wave 2 (180 days) = 36 or one every 5d
Wave 3 (34 days, so far) = 12 or one every 2.8d

The variant is a different disease.

We must change our approach or more young people will die.

 

[Baggsy]

Not complete but a reasonable source that supports her thoughts.

A person under 50 is dying of COVID-19 in Ontario ICUs every 2.8 days, doctor says

A Toronto critical care doctor says that Ontario’s stay-at-home order does not address the root cause of COVID-19 hospitalizations—adding that in the third wave of the pandemic, a person under the age of 50 is dying on average every 2.8 days.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

Dr. Michael Warner, medical director of critical care at Michael Garron Hospital, shared the Critical Care Services Ontario data on social media Wednesday

According to Warner, in the first wave of the pandemic a patient under the age of 50 died in one of Ontario’s ICUs every six days. In the second wave, it was on average every five days. “In wave three, we are losing one every 2.8 days.”

The number of #COVID ICU patients in Ontario younger than 50 is increasing.

On Feb 28 (end of Wave 2) = 44
As of April 4 (day 34 of Wave 3) = 68

#COVID ICU deaths of those < 50 in Ontario are rising:

Wave 1 (164 days) = 27 or one every 6d
Wave 2 (180 days) = 36 or one every 5d
Wave 3 (34 days, so far) = 12 or one every 2.8d

The variant is a different disease.

We must change our approach or more young people will die.

Now show the data for over 50.

I somewhat agree with ifiddles. But how do you differentiate and keep safe those who aren't out and about? They have to at least have someone delivering groceries. If you can differentiate between the two, and keep them both safe, then go for it, but there is no way in hell the government could do that. The same would go for vaccinating people in essential service public facing jobs. How does the government differentiate between the cashier on the floor and the manager in the back room, or the IT person working from home? We went through this fiasco with the hospitals. Didn't East General get caught out vaccinating their work from home staff?

Old man just got his shot on Mar 17, he's 86 in Toronto. His second appointment is in four months. I'm hoping there won't be a 4th, 5th, or 6th wave that wipes out all the old people who's resistance is fading after 3 1/2 months, since their immune systems don't work as quickly or as long as young people.

Don't forget that other regions outside of Toronto, Kingston etc. haven't been getting vaccinations at the same rate.

The worst mental part of this exercise isn't waiting patiently for your turn in line. It's the constantly changing goals, lack of accountability, shortages of supplies, and total uncertainty about the whole process. No wonder some people just give up and stop listening; making believe that everything is o.k.

The whole thing is a dog's breakfast, and now there are different lobbying groups vying for attention. Didn't the doctors, scientists and politicians make up a plan before or during the beginning of the pandemic? Why now are we "winging" it?

Edit: Also what are the population numbers in the different age groups, and the amount of vaccine we now have on hand?
If you're going to try and squeeze more from less, you can't just do half the job, and then say **** it for the rest.
If we do an about face and change to this plan, then we've already vaccinated thousands, perhaps a million of the wrong people.

Edit 2: I looked up the U.S. data for deaths/100,000 per week broken down by age on the CDC site, can't find Canadian data, and the age ratios hold fairly true. I'm not sure how the variations are affecting them compared to us.

COVID Data Tracker

 

[bakaboy]

Current Variants of concern are impacting younger people. Trying to plan based on looking at cumulative stats is a bad idea. The important stats are probably the last week, maybe the last month if you need more data in your sample.

I don't think "special interest" groups should cut in line, but I do believe that there are certain occupations where vaccinating them early helps us all get to the end of this faster.

Edit: I need to read to the end of the thread before commenting on an earlier comment.

 

[nobbie48]

@Baggsy and I'm in total agreement to get the elderly, especially those in LTC vaccinated before anyone along with the workers there and in any other health care setting...my variation would be once they're done (which I believe most if not all are), move on to the workers who aren't working from home...

For example, my brother and sisters are all in their 70s and live at home...while I'm thankful that they are all vaccinated, they should have been done after those of us (grocery store workers, factory workers etc) that need to physically go to work...they don't have to go anywhere and can spend a few more months at home while the rest of the working class get their shots...they even agree with me...

There's a few doctors out there on Twitter that are saying the same thing...get rid of the age brackets and get going on those who work in large exposure jobs...

It brings to mind one tweet:
55 year old male working from home - eligible
50 year old male working in a factory- not eligible
Who is the greater risk?

My wife and I are both retired and reasonably healthy. We could get away with a grocery run once every five or six days. That could be switched to delivery. Detached house with a reasonable back yard.

Garden centres were questioned but there is a time slot factor. Planting tomatoes in August won't work. There is a key time to spray for grubs etc.

 

[crankcall]

Hamilton seems to be getting with a program , going into hot zone postal codes and getting things done, targeting factories to get risk people looked after.
Maybe targeting problems is better than just picking age groups.

 

[sburns]

Got my 1st shot last night. Woke up feeling rough, aches and pains, zero energy and a mild headache all day. Not so bad this evening, but wow did it kick my ass this morning. Wife had no ill effect.

Do you know what vaccine you got? Not trying to stir up any contraversry, my parents both got Pfhizer, and most other people I know who got the shot were also Pfhizer.

 

[mimico_polak]

Hamilton seems to be getting with a program , going into hot zone postal codes and getting things done, targeting factories to get risk people looked after.
Maybe targeting problems is better than just picking age groups.

Logical. This is why most aren’t doing it.

Set up mobile vaccination clinics and go hit up the postal codes that need it. Keep the central locations for those that can make it and are within the group.

just get the jabs in.

 

[ToSlow]

Logical. This is why most aren’t doing it.

Set up mobile vaccination clinics and go hit up the postal codes that need it. Keep the central locations for those that can make it and are within the group.

just get the jabs in.

There’s a hugh cost to this, and probably suspect as to why it’s not happening.

Any time Money has to be spent they seem to chuck safety and health out the door

 

[mimico_polak]

There’s a hugh cost to this, and probably suspect as to why it’s not happening.

Any time Money has to be spent they seem to chuck safety and health out the door

This whole mess is a cost v benefit exercise.

is it more costly to do the mobile clinics or let us go through these mockdowns over and over?

What’s a few more billion between tax payers....right....anyone....

 

[mimico_polak]

Well looks like my postal code is on the hot spot list and anyone 18+ can get jabbed from those codes.