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Questions To Harley Riders
- Thread starter jemlinus
- Start date
blackcamaro
Well-known member
I'd consider Harley's expensive but not overpriced. They sell easy and hold resale value really well so if you can swing the initial purchase price they aren't bad to own at all. If a metric does it for you then yeah absolutely save the money.
blackcamaro
Well-known member
If people are willing to write the cheque it's tough to consider something overpriced. Expensive sure but all premium products are expensive.
What the hell is that.. where is all the chrome!!
2001 Buell S3T that has a modified HD Sportster engine. Approx 100 HP so far from a rocket ship but, sounds like a Harley and rides like a sport touring machine.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Where is the argument?
ar·gu·ment
/ˈärɡyəmənt/
noun
- 1.
an exchange of diverging or opposite views, typically a heated or angry one.
I'm not heated or angry. I was just laughing at you, not other HD riders.
I laughed because you gave a generic answer. If you have nothing, why bother to give generic answers like that? Even if you said the vibration is what makes HD great, I probably won't say anything to counter that.
I've ridden many Honda and Yamaha motorcycles, but I've never thought some are not a "real" Honda or "real" Yamaha. If they put their name on their products, they better back them up. I don't care if they are made in India or China.
Have you ridden small Honda or Yamaha? I even rented a Honda Wave 125 scooter in SEA and it did 2500km in two weeks and the ride was pretty good considering It was just over $1k USD brand new if I wanted one. If they can't even do the small bikes well, what makes you think they'll do better with a bigger and higher tier model?
I can meet you halfway.
Perhaps you don't have an issue cutting a cheque at that price point but what if i did? As long as people base the decision on what they get back for the money then it could certainly be considered overpriced.
Get back when? If you bought a used harley and sold it a few years later my suspicion is that it would have less depreciation than an equivalent metric cruiser. Yes, you had more money tied up so there was some opportunity cost but if you ignore that, the harley may actually be cheaper to have in your garage.
If you are buying new, the initial depreciation lost on both bikes is horrendous. The higher starting price of the harley means it will probably cost you more to own than a metric cruiser.
If you strictly look at the vehicle stats (hp,weight, etc.) I think harley is overpriced. I don't think many people would argue though that much of their (HD) value is tied up in the sound and image.
This.
i mean, what's the problem with "high" kms on a bike? probably a good thing if you`re trying to dodge lemons.
I'm constantly amazed at the number of Harleys listed for sale with <100,000KM on them stating that the engine was rebuilt already. Cam chain tensioners and failed oil pumps have destroyed many an engine. Lets not even talk about the clutch failure issues or leaking oil coolers, both of which led to accidents and major recalls.
What gets me is why HD has these sorts of issues in such a high proportion (in one single brand) vs all the metric brands put together.
Yesterday's technology at tomorrow's prices.
Harley doesn't sell motorcycles, they sell a brand image, which is a double edged sword. While not a novel concept by any extent, they spent years appealing to counter culture and nostalgia of the boom generation who were adamant on demonstrating they were 'different than their parents'. Rebellion, freedom, the list goes on. Once sufficiently affluent the generation that went through the largest wealth expansions in human history had the means to fulfil their dreams of youth and live the dreams of years past. Dentist by day, rebel by weekend. Harley capitalized. That time has since passed however and every generation goes through this cycle. As the golden generation ages out of the market that same cycle repeats. The net outcome is of course the polar opposite as it was once before, where Harley does not reflect the values of the next generation, for the same reason: 'We are different'. Big, loud, inefficient, expensive, blind brand loyalty is no longer a desirable attribute. The livewire, while an admirable attempt, will ultimately not be successful. A necessary cost, however, to try and stem the bleeding by conveying an image the brand is modernizing. 'We are not your parents motorcycle'. As they've now discovered, the problem with resting on your laurels because 'that's the way we've always done it' is the scariest phrase in any business. You can only sell the 'classic' so many times. Unfortunately this went on too long and now the bill for the pent up technical debt has arrived. Why invest profit in R&D, when we can reduce SG&A and pump margins. Now we see the other side of the coin. A stale product line that doesn't appeal to a changing market, with a brand image that no longer resonates with the upcoming buyers, regardless of the R&D effort now being spent late in the game. Whether you agree or disagree, money is indifferent, brick and motor factories sit collecting dust, and balance sheets don't lie. Can they turn it around? I hope so, more riders is good for the entire community, but it's hard to see how at the moment.
Harley doesn't sell motorcycles, they sell a brand image, which is a double edged sword. While not a novel concept by any extent, they spent years appealing to counter culture and nostalgia of the boom generation who were adamant on demonstrating they were 'different than their parents'. Rebellion, freedom, the list goes on. Once sufficiently affluent the generation that went through the largest wealth expansions in human history had the means to fulfil their dreams of youth and live the dreams of years past. Dentist by day, rebel by weekend. Harley capitalized. That time has since passed however and every generation goes through this cycle. As the golden generation ages out of the market that same cycle repeats. The net outcome is of course the polar opposite as it was once before, where Harley does not reflect the values of the next generation, for the same reason: 'We are different'. Big, loud, inefficient, expensive, blind brand loyalty is no longer a desirable attribute. The livewire, while an admirable attempt, will ultimately not be successful. A necessary cost, however, to try and stem the bleeding by conveying an image the brand is modernizing. 'We are not your parents motorcycle'. As they've now discovered, the problem with resting on your laurels because 'that's the way we've always done it' is the scariest phrase in any business. You can only sell the 'classic' so many times. Unfortunately this went on too long and now the bill for the pent up technical debt has arrived. Why invest profit in R&D, when we can reduce SG&A and pump margins. Now we see the other side of the coin. A stale product line that doesn't appeal to a changing market, with a brand image that no longer resonates with the upcoming buyers, regardless of the R&D effort now being spent late in the game. Whether you agree or disagree, money is indifferent, brick and motor factories sit collecting dust, and balance sheets don't lie. Can they turn it around? I hope so, more riders is good for the entire community, but it's hard to see how at the moment.
bigpoppa
Well-known member
On a japanese bike? nothing.
My motorcycle tech friend in the UK used to call them “Hardlyevergoes”. To be fair, that was a few years ago now.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Don't start looking for pall bearers, HD is far from trouble. The stock price isn't a great indicator right now, there has been a lot of fear mongering around HOG, and some additional uncertainty over America's trade disputes. HD is exceeding expectations and they continue to be a sound financial performer, meaning they are tending to business and shareholder needs while working on market solutions.
I don't think they have technical debt -- old technology isn't killing them, marketing missteps are challenging them. If they had a reasy market, any big bike manufacturer could whip a bike together in no time. Look at Indian and their FTR -- a pencil sketch and ship built custom 2 years
and I think they are gaining some traction with the new street bikes. I persoanlly know two under 30 riders that have changed from CBRs to Street 750's -- neither of them really understands the legacy culture, they are drawn to the brand and see those bikes as their entry. The street series may not be considered 'real Harleys' to the legacy group, but neither are Bolts and Vulcans.
Honda is out of the middleweight cruiser market, that leaves some space for the new 2 million riders HD is looking for. The LiveWire electric thing may or may not take off, but they have a few other things they are driving. They recently stated last year had the biggest age, demographic and gender diversity they have seen since they started tracking - a welcome shift. When (if) the trade wars end, there are lots of rich Asian pirates in waiting.
Start worrying if HD says they are suspending dividends. Till then, if you don't think their bikes are priced right, try their stock!
J_F
Guest
^ agree with this
for a lot of immigrants that have worked hard and done well
a Harley is a popular status symbol
look at the Sikh riders that gained the helmet exemption
don't see any of them of 250/300 Jap bikes or SS
same applies in developing countries with huge emerging middle class
ask any Indian rider what he would rather have
a Royal Enfield or a HD
when they get to the point in life to afford it, they will get the Harley
for a lot of immigrants that have worked hard and done well
a Harley is a popular status symbol
look at the Sikh riders that gained the helmet exemption
don't see any of them of 250/300 Jap bikes or SS
same applies in developing countries with huge emerging middle class
ask any Indian rider what he would rather have
a Royal Enfield or a HD
when they get to the point in life to afford it, they will get the Harley
bigpoppa
Well-known member
Its a status symbol, I firmly believe Indians(especially sikhs) are the perfect customers for HD going forward in the huge asian markets.
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