why is it that everytime HD has a demo ride that parking lot is full of sports bike riders. So that must mean HD has something that you want to ride.
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Hell just froze. Heading to Harley-Davidson dealership tonight.
- Thread starter DJM
- Start date
That actually shows you that sportbike riders are more open minded. You will rarely see the opposite.
Or maybe it shows that the appeal of HD is in the experience, while other bikes can be appreciated based on their spec sheet alone?
That's a pretty stunning leap in logic. Based on this forum, I could easily make the presumption that many sportbike riders are the most close minded people in the universe.
It is more likely the fact that HD runs more demos than any other manufacturer. They have 2 trucks that run coast to coast doing demo rides. Lots of people like to go on demo rides. Who doesn't want to ride someone else's bike? lol
Honda: 1 Truck I know is out there, however their site says the following: Thank you to everyone who participated in the 2010 Come Ride With Us season, it was a great success! The 2011 schedule is currently being developed, please check back in the spring for more scheduling information.
Suzuki: 1 Truck that runs a limited schedule throughout the summer.
Yamaha: 1 truck...that apparently ends next weekend??
Kawasaki: No demo presence to speak of...(I know they ran something at Kahuna...but only heard about it because it was posted here)
Ducati: 1 truck...I think they had like 10 stops in Canada. Almost impossible to find out about as they don't have a Canadian specific site.
Triumph: Demo truck doesn't come to Canada.
So yeah...
I've owned old Triumphs and a couple of newer Jap bikes. I once rode a Sportster and came away with the feeling that it's not a bad bike, but not something I would buy for myself. However I test rode a Buell and loved it! I wish HD had never dropped the Buell line. There was something about the feel of that bike that was very appealing to me. I prefer a bike that doesn't feel too polished so I can see how HD appeals to riders. For me the new sport bikes are great for track days and short stints on the road but their appeal wears off quickly. My next road bike will likely be something vintage.
its demographics.
HD target market is approx something like 45-65. Probely people that at one point had a motorcycle or really want to get one. Now that the kids are grown up and out of the house or university-college, they can have the time and income to buy a new bike and actually tour with it. This crowd does not care about spec sheet performance, they are buying as a toy--branding is what gets them in the showroom and what sells the bike. Just like most other products, across all verticals in the marketplace today.
They own the older demographic the same way that Suzuki GSXR or Kawi ninja (90's) owned the 18-30 market.
Im just going to make a guess here but they spend more money on marketing then all the japs combined. I see Harley commercials all the time and cant tell you the last time i saw a Jap cruiser commercial.
HD target market is approx something like 45-65. Probely people that at one point had a motorcycle or really want to get one. Now that the kids are grown up and out of the house or university-college, they can have the time and income to buy a new bike and actually tour with it. This crowd does not care about spec sheet performance, they are buying as a toy--branding is what gets them in the showroom and what sells the bike. Just like most other products, across all verticals in the marketplace today.
They own the older demographic the same way that Suzuki GSXR or Kawi ninja (90's) owned the 18-30 market.
Im just going to make a guess here but they spend more money on marketing then all the japs combined. I see Harley commercials all the time and cant tell you the last time i saw a Jap cruiser commercial.
I've ridden one...it's crotch bitingly uncomfortable. Not something I could ever see myself going long distances on.
It really felt like the worst of both worlds. That was definitely just me though.
macrider
Well-known member
True, I always get a crowd of jealous Harley riders gawking and asking questions about my Rocket.
Its a rare bike, theres not many in Ontario yet.But have been in the U.S and Australia for quite a while.
They can't believe its got 140 cubic inches and does 11 second quarter miles.
Liar.
Quite the polarization of opinions. But, I'm not going to defend a purchase with my own money, life's too short.
My title was more of a tongue-in-cheek directed at some work buddies who were amazed/amused at my pleasantly surprised response after riding the bike.
I rode an 08 Fat Bob with Stage 1 upgrades last night and liked the ride. Lot's of torque and comfortable. I was able to u-turn on a county road easily by dragging the rear brake, and never really found the heft to be an issue. It was very windy but the bike was planted and stable. My BMW would have been at a 30 degree angle to counteract the side wind.
Saturday I have a ride booked on a 2010 V-Rod Muscle. I love the look of the bike, but have heard about the cornering and clearance shortcomings. I need to see this for myself.
Can't post pics, quota exceeded so here's some links to the 2 bikes if anyone cares.
http://www.thunderroadharley.com/images/used/802838/large/802838.jpg
http://www.robinsonmotorcycle.com/130660898407/printerFriendly
My title was more of a tongue-in-cheek directed at some work buddies who were amazed/amused at my pleasantly surprised response after riding the bike.
I rode an 08 Fat Bob with Stage 1 upgrades last night and liked the ride. Lot's of torque and comfortable. I was able to u-turn on a county road easily by dragging the rear brake, and never really found the heft to be an issue. It was very windy but the bike was planted and stable. My BMW would have been at a 30 degree angle to counteract the side wind.
Saturday I have a ride booked on a 2010 V-Rod Muscle. I love the look of the bike, but have heard about the cornering and clearance shortcomings. I need to see this for myself.
Can't post pics, quota exceeded so here's some links to the 2 bikes if anyone cares.
http://www.thunderroadharley.com/images/used/802838/large/802838.jpg
http://www.robinsonmotorcycle.com/130660898407/printerFriendly
Oooooo, provocative response.
But no, what you had done was point out some of the features of your HD that I didn't know about, explaining why you chose it over other bikes. But you could have just as easily chosen the other bikes, they did what the HD does. You also pointed out that yours is more of a tourer than a cruiser, so it has some functional aspect but again, none of that explains the appeal of Harleys, or cruisers in general. I still think it's mostly about style, about hitting the road and pretending that it's still the good ol' 1950s.
toshison
Well-known member
DJM, allow me to chime in on your post and bypass the debate.
Being somewhat of an "insider", I have ridden the whole lineup and here is my take.
Talking Dyna's in stock form, the Fat Bob is my favorite of the bunch. I prefer the forward controls, drag bar and the seat is excellent. Overall great ergo's in stock form. Its a very comfortable bike with a nice chunky stance. The Street Bob I'd rank 2nd followed by the Wide Glide and Super Glide. Im just not a fan of the Super Glide at all.
Talking V-Rod's. The Muscle is my overall favorite HD period. VRSC's are leaps and bounds more stimulating to the senses than the rest of the HD pack. I get terrible mileage riding one as I just love how the bike accelerates. The long wheelbase can make tight space manuveuring "interesting" but overall its a great bike. In stock form, the ergo's are okay but with my height at 6'1 and the low bars, my neck is usually sore in about 30 minutes. Still the bike is super fun.
Dyna Fat Bob vs VRod Muscle -> They are totally different machines but I think the feel and power of the V-Rod might just win you over. For me, I would buy the Muscle as I think I would be very bored with a Fat Bob after a while.
If you can, I highly recommend testing a softail out.. Given your taste in bikes, I'd suggest testing out a Fat Boy Lo. In my opinion softails in general feel much more refined then Dyna's do and you might just come to love floorboards over pegs. Theres also the new Blackline but I prefer chunky so the Fat Boy Lo is my top pick for softails.
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I think before you buy any bike you need to check out the others in the category. In this case the metric cruisers. In general I will admit I have some issues with Harley (the company itself).
The Company:
I am not impressed that they dropped Buell and refused to sell it to Bombardier. In fact they had to pay Bombardier (Rotax) a "8 figure" penalty when they shut Buell down, could have just sold it to them and kept some people working... Just seems real dirty ego centric to me. Just glad they did not do the same to MV (bought for 100M sold for 1$).
They have done some shifty (remove the f) stuff to some mom and pop dealers. About 10 years ago they made all the dealers go Harley only and build 60,000+ sq.ft buildings. Then recently they told some of these same dealers that they had to be located on a "major" road and they had to move their 60,000 sq.ft building or lose the franchise! These are dealers that have been with them for 50+ years. Seems like dirty pool to me.
In general they do seem more interested in selling "lifestyle" than motorcycles. Having helped my buddy modify his three year old bike many of the factory parts just seem like lazy engineering, material corner cutting (things like making a part three times heavier than it needs to be through cheap material and lazy design), does not seem right on a $20K plus bike. But maybe all cruisers are like this, I don't know, so it could just be a reflection of what the buyers want.
None of this makes them different than many other companies of course and does not mean the bikes are no good, just points to ponder. Of course you bring these points up to the Harley crowd and you are just a hater....
In the end buy the bike that fits you and your needs best, just don't buy because of hype.
The Company:
I am not impressed that they dropped Buell and refused to sell it to Bombardier. In fact they had to pay Bombardier (Rotax) a "8 figure" penalty when they shut Buell down, could have just sold it to them and kept some people working... Just seems real dirty ego centric to me. Just glad they did not do the same to MV (bought for 100M sold for 1$).
They have done some shifty (remove the f) stuff to some mom and pop dealers. About 10 years ago they made all the dealers go Harley only and build 60,000+ sq.ft buildings. Then recently they told some of these same dealers that they had to be located on a "major" road and they had to move their 60,000 sq.ft building or lose the franchise! These are dealers that have been with them for 50+ years. Seems like dirty pool to me.
In general they do seem more interested in selling "lifestyle" than motorcycles. Having helped my buddy modify his three year old bike many of the factory parts just seem like lazy engineering, material corner cutting (things like making a part three times heavier than it needs to be through cheap material and lazy design), does not seem right on a $20K plus bike. But maybe all cruisers are like this, I don't know, so it could just be a reflection of what the buyers want.
None of this makes them different than many other companies of course and does not mean the bikes are no good, just points to ponder. Of course you bring these points up to the Harley crowd and you are just a hater....
In the end buy the bike that fits you and your needs best, just don't buy because of hype.
Not necessarily, especially when said points are presented without malice like you have done. I don't mind debating with those who have the capability to think for themselves instead of just puking out the same old crap that they've heard from others and not bothering to do any research on their own.
Anyway, just wanted to address your point about the mom and pop dealers. What you've said is largely true for the US market, but Canada (ie: Trev Deeley) always treated their dealer network with more respect. No Canadian dealer was ever told to go "Harley only", nor were they ever forced to relocate. Motosport Plus in Kingston had to recently renovate their shop to allow for complete and separate showrooms for their Harley and Honda lineups... and that mandate came from Honda Canada, not Harley. They were, however, mandated to renovate their stores to the "boutique" concept and that actually started back in the mid 80's. Certain dealers were exempt from this and all subsequent mandates because of their long term devotion to the marque and Cameron's HD up in Perth was a prime example. However, I am told that in the last couple years Deeley's have been getting more arrogant in their rules and regs for their franchises so your comments do have some merit.
As for the heavy parts with lazy design, I'm curious to know what prompted that statement. Keep in mind HD is not about shaving every possible milligram of weight and using the latest carbon fibre technology.
I can think of two examples where dealers' in Canada were "pushed" out. Robinson's (which now sells used US HD bikes...the story is on their website) and last year, Poole's(hamilton dealer...I may have the name wrong). Both were not making sales thresholds and were "recommended" to move to bigger close to highway locations. Both declined and are no longer selling Harley Davidson motorcycles. That being said, this practice is not uncommon across automotive manufacturers...if you can't make the sales...you probably won't get your license renewed.
My assumption on the use of heavy parts or lazy design is their need above everyone else to keep the state of California happy. It's by far one of their largest markets and it has the toughest emissions laws. While some of the smaller, higher efficiency engines will not require the use of these same more constrictive parts to work, a big air cooled V twin will. Which is why when you execute a Stage 1 upgrade on a Harley your engine performance increases so much....the engine is horribly constricted.
HD get's poked in the eye for oil tech but, Triumph has some air cooled twins humming with looks that date back to the 60's and 70s. No one gives them heck for that.
Bikes don't needs the latest and greatest to be the best. They don't need to win on Sunday to sell on Monday. That might help the SS folks for bragging rights of their given ride but, it's still not an accurate representation of their brand or marque.
Let's all be happy to ride our own ride and enough with the hating on others.
Bikes don't needs the latest and greatest to be the best. They don't need to win on Sunday to sell on Monday. That might help the SS folks for bragging rights of their given ride but, it's still not an accurate representation of their brand or marque.
Let's all be happy to ride our own ride and enough with the hating on others.
Yes, I remember hearing about them. They were at least given a choice, though, whereas my understanding is the US dealers had none - "do it now or lose your franchise". And like I said, Deeley's seem to have become increasingly arrogant as of late. I can't help but think that this would not be the case were Trev still alive.
As for horribly strangled stock air cooled motors, no argument there. I wish they would just ****, get off the pot and bring out the next generation of water cooled V-Twins NOW, dammit, and to hell with the traditionalists. That segment of their demographic is fading out fast anyway. Me, I would love to see a larger displacement and retuned V-Rod motor stuffed in a Road Glide frame.
LOL...I remember having this discusion with the Road Captain for Milton HOG...He was bemoaning the fact they wouldn't put that engine in his Fat Boy.
Rented a VROD once in Florida. It was a sweeeeet ride. I could see myself owning one when I get old and retired, or as a second bike.
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