What is up with people?

[Dimitri]

So we start people at $18 and they move to $20 in short order just to keep them. This sets off long term employees that had to work for years to get to $20. The impact on moral is crippling. But what do you do?

What Starbucks did, give everyone the same increase of $2.40 an hour when wages jumped to $14 an hour in 2018. Keeping everyone in line with the new bottom wage.

But paying people for their experience and loyalty isn't fair to business owners. Employees should suck it up and deal with their lack of worth to the company.

 

[nobbie48]

Construction worker is in good shape. Really hard to replace most of them. No matter how hard they try to build precisely there is a hell of a lot of build-to-fit that doesn't automate well at all.

Trucker should be good for a generation or more as self-driving is BS. The question there is do the lobbyists win the battle over the people analysing safety. Long-haul trucker automates well but from the highway ramp to destination should be done by humans for a long time.

Manual data entry should mostly disappear. I am shocked that gas/water are still read by somebody walking to every house with a meter. I expect the next generation will report at a distance.

Construction isn't worry free.

Trucking will be around for a while but whether it's profitable or not remains to be seen. Drones in volume are Sci-Fi at the moment IMO.

Manual data will be click click if that. I'm a Luddite and I pay bills on line. Virus protection will be a forever job.

Repairs to existing buildings will be good for a while. The problem is reasonable repairs require outside the box thinking. No one teaches that. It's less confusing to tear the thing down and build new one. The problem facing that industry is developer destruction. We don't have the ancient structures to protect as in Europe.

 

[mimico_polak]

It’s coming to a renovation near you…

 

[POWERMAN]

......and that's how Skynet came into existence.

 

[JZ67]

What Starbucks did, give everyone the same increase of $2.40 an hour when wages jumped to $14 an hour in 2018. Keeping everyone in line with the new bottom wage.

But paying people for their experience and loyalty isn't fair to business owners. Employees should suck it up and deal with their lack of worth to the company.

I don't agree with that statement and it is what started unionization. An employee is an employers most valuable asset. Without people, nothing gets done. Experienced employees add production value and increase throughput for a company.

Just like race teams looking for fractions of a second, business owners look for percentage improvements on production and throughput as these are values that can be controlled. Every value add input goes directly to the bottom line.

This is why high turnover is a huge problem as the company is constantly in training and never realizing maximum potential. If a company does not have a competitive pay structure or provides a decent work environment, employees leave.

From my experience, an employee simply wants to know that they are valued and appreciated. It isn't always about the money because the grass is seldom greener. A genuine "thank you" goes a really long way and while we are trying to offer incentive for new recruits we are also managing the assets we have as well. We show genuine appreciation in many forms and the gestures are often reciprocated.

 

[Chris-CJ]

I don't agree with that statement and it is what started unionization. An employee is an employers most valuable asset. Without people, nothing gets done. Experienced employees add production value and increase throughput for a company.

Just like race teams looking for fractions of a second, business owners look for percentage improvements on production and throughput as these are values that can be controlled. Every value add input goes directly to the bottom line.

This is why high turnover is a huge problem as the company is constantly in training and never realizing maximum potential. If a company does not have a competitive pay structure or provides a decent work environment, employees leave.

From my experience, an employee simply wants to know that they are valued and appreciated. It isn't always about the money because the grass is seldom greener. A genuine "thank you" goes a really long way and while we are trying to offer incentive for new recruits we are also managing the assets we have as well. We show genuine appreciation in many forms and the gestures are often reciprocated.

Well said!
On a related note, "Outsourcing" for cheap is one facet that has changed the paradigm.
The work is done to the letter of contract ("above and beyond" - what is that?!!). Recall your last experience with an Offshore help desk and you will get what I mean.

 

[油井緋色]

Remember this. 6 years ago millennials became the dominant force in federal politics, politicians and electorate - it was their voting block that brought in the current regime.

Since being elected, the govt you elected has added more public debt than all govts combined in the last 150 years. And the forecast isn’t rosy.

Boomers and GenX are getting good more goodies from millennials than they ever gave themselves. Since millennials are starting to be the core taxpayers, they will end up servicing the debts - not their parents.

Thanks! GenX appreciates your generosity, I sure boomers do too!

Population estimates on July 1st, by age and sex

Estimated number of persons on July 1st, by 5-year age groups and sex, and median age, for Canada, provinces and territories.

www150.statcan.gc.ca

It's Gen X and boomers that voted those policies in (apparently X didn't have as much children? lol) Not surprising though because they're the ones retiring; ppl retiring would vote lazy policies in. Mil and Z are gonna get wrecked (some are already feeling it.) Whatever though, the way I see it is gen x and boomers are setting up for basic income anyway which is needed if we want automation/quality of life to go up and everybody works less.

And yes, I'm well aware we're ******.

We pay 50% above min wage. 7:30-4 M-F schedule. Full dental & medical benefit plan, pension plan, paid sick days, 3 weeks vacation after 3 years, 4 after 10. Great career advancement opportunities

Our retention rate is near 100% over the last 10 years.

Very hard to find employees. We’re not hiring today, but it took 5 mos to find 3 solid entry level staff, we gave up on summer students.

That beats Starbucks by a long shot lol

But paying people for their experience and loyalty isn't fair to business owners. Employees should suck it up and deal with their lack of worth to the company.

I actually agree with this. Jobs like McDonalds, Wal-Mart, and other entry lvl jobs should be miserable enough to provoke one to want the **** out. I know quite a few ppl who are successful now because "I wanted to kill myself working at WalMart" or something.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Jobs in some industries are just plentiful enough that applicants can pick and choose I guess now.

Trucking industry for example. I fell into a driver trainer gig at my current job recently (long story, but hey, It's been an interesting twist) and the third guy I started with a few weeks ago lasted.......5 minutes.

He walked out with me and when I was about 30 seconds into my polite "This is the gist of what we do here, so lets get started" spiel, he stopped and said "Oh, I didn't realize that wasn't straight load work. I don't do the kind of work you guys do. So I don't want to waste anyones time, I'll be leaving now".

"Ummm, OK then. Go back up to dispatch and talk to so-and-so and I guess we'll be seeing you!".

Punched out and went home.

There's lots of driving jobs right now - there's a shortage of us actually, so yeah, drivers can pick and choose. In many ways it doesn't surprise me in the least that people would bail out of the sometimes backbreaking work involved in my job (like I've said too many times here, we're a human forklift sometimes) when there's no-touch jobs out there that, for them at least, pay the same money. What would YOU do?

 

[油井緋色]

https://www.reddit.com/r/depression/comments/3dvvep

This might be a huge contributor. I understand what these guys feel...many of my frds and I feel the same way. I don't think it's truly depression either because anytime we have vacation, the mood perks right up lol

 

[GreyGhost]

https://www.reddit.com/r/depression/comments/3dvvep

This might be a huge contributor. I understand what these guys feel...many of my frds and I feel the same way. I don't think it's truly depression either because anytime we have vacation, the mood perks right up lol

Golden handcuffs have always been an issue. You can either stop blowing money on *&^*(&^ to set yourself up for a lower paying but more enjoyable job or just put your head down with the knowledge that those 40 hours allow you to do what you want the other 128. I have known a few people working 100 hours a week at multiple minimum wage jobs that put their head down and do what is required for their family. They are the ones that are truly trapped. If you work 40 hours a week, hate your job, constantly ***** about it and do nothing to change the situation that is on you. There are lots of hours where you can retrain, do side jobs, have hobbies, etc.

 

[油井緋色]

Golden handcuffs have always been an issue. You can either stop blowing money on *&^*(&^ to set yourself up for a lower paying but more enjoyable job or just put your head down with the knowledge that those 40 hours allow you to do what you want the other 128. I have known a few people working 100 hours a week at multiple minimum wage jobs that put their head down and do what is required for their family. They are the ones that are truly trapped. If you work 40 hours a week, hate your job, constantly ***** about it and do nothing to change the situation that is on you. There are lots of hours where you can retrain, do side jobs, have hobbies, etc.

It's hard to describe....sometimes I wake up on workdays and wish the roof would just collapse and murder me lol. Weekends are great though!

I can't say any of my friends are struggling financially but the ones without kids have had their spirit murdered. While I understand there's quite a bit of "suck it up little *****" cream that needs to be applied, there's clearly a whole lot of people where that isn't working.

This also plays into why I believe automation is the future; society needs to catch up with tech though or we'll just end up with a bunch of homeless ppl and crime rates skyrocket.

 

[mimico_polak]

https://www.reddit.com/r/depression/comments/3dvvep

This might be a huge contributor. I understand what these guys feel...many of my frds and I feel the same way. I don't think it's truly depression either because anytime we have vacation, the mood perks right up lol

See I look at it differently. There's a whole younger generation that is 'special' and is told to 'follow their dreams' and everything that isn't along this path is bad.

Do I love my job? Nope
Do I like my job? Meh
Is it my dream job? Sweet baby Jesus no
Do I tolerate it? Yup
Is it secure? Sure...as secure as any other industry
Is it stable? Same as above
Does it provide me with enough to live, put a roof over my head, have a vacation, and eat well? Sure does. Not as much as we want (always more) but we're not starving.

Sometimes the problem isn't the job, it's YOU (obviously not YOU YOU because you're special) and people have these stupidly high expectations that they DESERVE a super job, and a fun/enjoyable/proper job is OWED to them.

It's not. Life's not about you. You are not special (except to maybe your parents and SO)....that's it.

So as @GreyGhost says...if the job is so depressing that it's affecting you, there are options. Not for everyone obviously, but there are always options.

- retraining
- restarting
- re-evaluating yourself and your expectations

But it's just so much easier to ***** and complain.

I finished school as an engineering grad with a B.Eng. I have literally done a zero amount of actual engineering (hence lack of P.Eng.). I enjoy my job/career/industry that when I see an opportunity I go for it. It's typically worked out well since 2007. But if I am really reasonable...I leave and go elsewhere.

Best part is, I didn't know this industry existed...like not in a million years would I have thought I'd be doing this. But an opportunity came, I took it, and am well enough known that if this doesn't work out...I can make a few calls and have a job within a few weeks in another part of the industry.

 

[GreyGhost]

It's hard to describe....

I can't say any of my friends are struggling financially but the ones without kids have had their spirit murdered. While I understand there's quite a bit of "suck it up little *****" cream that needs to be applied, there's clearly a whole lot of people where that isn't working.

This also plays into why I believe automation is the future; society needs to catch up with tech though or we'll just end up with a bunch of homeless ppl and crime rates skyrocket.

I know the feeling. I have no sympathy for people that moan about how their job sucks while they have a house, cottage, snowmobile, two new cars, boat, etc. Sell all that *&^*(&^*. Now your monthly expenses are half. Get a job that makes you happy and pays half and you are in the same cashflow situation you left but happier.

 

[油井緋色]

@mimico_polak I agree and understand with what you're saying, it doesn't mean I don't understand the other viewpoint though.

It's like you said: I've accepted my circumstances and realize I'm really good at what I do, employers want me, and they will pay me a **** ton of money, It is tolerable.

I've also accepted the fact that for the next 10-15 years of life, I'm gonna wake up wanting to kill myself until I get financial freedom lol

Buy a couple toys during those 10-15 years to offset the misery. Not exactly the reality most people want to accept.

It's quite plausible many of those employees mentioned here haven't accepted the above or had a perspective swap.

I know the feeling. I have no sympathy for people that moan about how their job sucks while they have a house, cottage, snowmobile, two new cars, boat, etc. Sell all that *&^*(&^*. Now your monthly expenses are half. Get a job that makes you happy and pays half and you are in the same cashflow situation you left but happier.

No kids, btw, saves the most money by far lol

Can get by with 1 car if someone needs it for work, and that's it for unnecessary bills!

 

[Jampy00]

I've worked my share or terrible jobs for terrible people. I've also been lucky enough to work with true leaders that inspire and motivate you.
Learning from these experiences I can say I have grown considerably in my empathy for "entry level employees". It can (at times) be a terrible experience it can also be a great one. Some of this comes from the job itself, some comes from the leadership and some comes from the individual.
It has been my experience if one of these three things fall short the other two will soon follow.

I find that now, most people wants all the happiness as quickly as possible. But then they crash when reality hits and they forgot about the responsibility. I lived a portion of my life like this and it ended with a lot of debt and little happiness. Now I choose to be content with the understanding I am doing the best I can within my means.

 

[GreyGhost]

No kids, btw, saves the most money by far lol

Well, unlike the rest of the stuff on my list, once you decide to acquire kids, you are pretty much stuck on that path and just need to suck it up. You can be smart with the kids too though. Rep hockey/competitive gymnastics cost dump truck loads of money and lets be honest, very few make it. You'd be way ahead putting the $xx,xxx dollars per year into financial investments. Recreational sports are good. Most competitive sports for kids are a stupid idea designed to extract as much money from parents as possible.

 

[油井緋色]

Well, unlike the rest of the stuff on my list, once you decide to acquire kids, you are pretty much stuck on that path and just need to suck it up. You can be smart with the kids too though. Rep hockey/competitive gymnastics cost dump truck loads of money and lets be honest, very few make it. You'd be way ahead putting the $xx,xxx dollars per year into financial investments. Recreational sports are good. Most competitive sports for kids are a stupid idea designed to extract as much money from parents as possible.

If I had kids, I wouldn't put them in sports tbh because they can get that from online games.

I would, instead, tell them to pick an instrument they'll play until they're done high school once they hit grade 1-4. This is REALLY EXPENSIVE but something Western society doesn't focus enough on; translation of emotions into something others can feel. Plus it'll serve as a precursor to: "you picked this path, now you gotta pick a career, any regrets? LEARN FROM IT!" lol

 

[mimico_polak]

@mimico_polak Buy a couple toys during those 10-15 years to offset the misery. Not exactly the reality most people want to accept.

It's quite plausible many of those employees mentioned here haven't accepted the above or had a perspective swap.

No kids, btw, saves the most money by far lol

Can get by with 1 car if someone needs it for work, and that's it for unnecessary bills!

Can you get a normal nickname so I can reference you without the whole paragraph? LOL

Misery is what you make it, same as happiness. Now I'm not saying your friends aren't depressed...but when I have the discussions with some others about how 'bad they have it' it goes like this.

'Life sucks, XXX is much better'
'Why don't you go?'
'Don't have enough cash'
'Sell the house, you've got enough equity for what you say you need, and then some'
'It's not that easy'
'OK...what's stopping you?'
'You don't understand'
'Try me'
'You've got a good life'
'Once again...what is actually stopping you?'

This is typically how the discussion ends. Similarly...

'This job sucks / doesn't pay enough / xxx'
'Have you looked at something else?'
'No...it's all ****'
'Any transferrable skills?'
'You don't understand cause you're an office worker'
'Try me'
'Eff off'

My friends typically say the same thing to me 'Why do you change your jobs so often? I couldn't do that'

And my response is always the same. When I feel it's time to move on, for whatever reason (money, joy, opportunity, etc.), I start looking for something better.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't....but if you don't ask or look into it...well that's on you.

 

[GreyGhost]

If I had kids, I wouldn't put them in sports tbh because they can get that from online games.

I would, instead, tell them to pick an instrument they'll play until they're done high school once they hit grade 1-4. This is REALLY EXPENSIVE but something Western society doesn't focus enough on; translation of emotions into something others can feel. Plus it'll serve as a precursor to: "you picked this path, now you gotta pick a career, any regrets? LEARN FROM IT!" lol

A friend posted a video of his kid (~10 yo) playing the entertainer. Really technically competent. No emotion but that's ok for now, I was impressed at his technical level.

EDIT:
I know you are video game focussed, but interacting face to face with real people is also an important life skill. Also exercise is good. Far too many video game people (I suspect the majority) become fat introverts. Balance is good.

 

[Deleted member 50930]

Financial Independence, Retire Early (FIRE)​