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Stocks

blackcamaro

Well-known member
That's simpler for the end-user.

So you hope that Purpose is smarter than you and has a secure system for safely storing coins? What if Purpose loses access to a portion of their holdings? I assume if it was public knowledge, the fund takes a haircut to compensate (and Purpose gets sued and loses). On the other hand, if they lost the keys to a cold wallet containing 50% of their holdings, are they required to disclose that? They only buy one thing so presumably the last 50% will never be needed as they never rebalance nor buy alternative crypto and hope to keep growing the fund with time.

Is there a mechanism in place to require holding funds/companies to churn coins to show that they have access to their holdings? "Owning" virtual things brings up interesting issues.
The answer to the first question. Yes, I believe Purpose and CI are smarter then me and will do a better job at protecting the actual Bitcoin and Ethereum then I would. They have a lot more to lose then I do.

The rest of the questions I don’t have the answer to. There is quite a bit of risk in my opinion holding any kind of crypto in any form. Maybe I have added more risk by holding through a ETF but it works for me. Both holdings are less then 5% of my portfolio which is otherwise a fairly safe mix of index funds, bank and utilities type stocks.

One big risk obviously is crypto trades 24/7. ETF obviously regular trading hours. If one day BTC started falling off a cliff on Friday night and continued all weekend I wouldn’t be able to sell until Monday morning. That is slightly concerning.

Honestly it was a fomo kind of thing and I bought some. Let’s see where it goes.
 

GreyGhost

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Yup. 20% in fees depending on the coins and exchange.

Seems like someone makes a shitcoin, and they sell it only for ETH. They hoard ETH/BYC, and make massive fees for this….sounds like banks.
So I need to pay to buy eth and then pay 20% to convert to shitcoin or 20% includes both transactions? Does it cost me another 20% to get back out or is it another $400? It would suck to pay millions in transaction fees if you win the crypto lottery.
 

mimico_polak

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So I need to pay to buy eth and then pay 20% to convert to shitcoin or 20% includes both transactions? Does it cost me another 20% to get back out or is it another $400? It would suck to pay millions in transaction fees if you win the crypto lottery.
I can't remember how much it cost to buy the first ETH...but I think it was around 20% or so in fees.

I'm not sure how much the fee is to get rid of it and go backwards...but expect 20%.

Many of the coins apparently have massive fees to make any moves (20-40%) depending on the coin/exchange/etc. Totally not worth in dealing with small sums...but big sums...If I won the crypto lotto and made $1,000,000 I'd be pretty ****** to have to pay 200k. Mind you I'd still have 800k that I didn't have before on a gamble...so I'm sure I'd survive.
 

GreyGhost

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I can't remember how much it cost to buy the first ETH...but I think it was around 20% or so in fees.

I'm not sure how much the fee is to get rid of it and go backwards...but expect 20%.

Many of the coins apparently have massive fees to make any moves (20-40%) depending on the coin/exchange/etc. Totally not worth in dealing with small sums...but big sums...If I won the crypto lotto and made $1,000,000 I'd be pretty ****** to have to pay 200k. Mind you I'd still have 800k that I didn't have before on a gamble...so I'm sure I'd survive.
Still, 40% or more in fees to get in and out is pretty punitive and puts a real damper on returns unless they are thousands of percent. I guess that 20% is what pays for the mining in the first place. I've got shares that are up thousands of percent and it costs me $20 to get in and out regardless of the number of shares. The more I hear, the more it really is a lottery. Buy, hope for the best, pay 40% fees and 50% tax on any winnings and you have a great story but far less money than your story would indicate.
 

mimico_polak

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Still, 40% or more in fees to get in and out is pretty punitive and puts a real damper on returns unless they are thousands of percent. I guess that 20% is what pays for the mining in the first place. I've got shares that are up thousands of percent and it costs me $20 to get in and out regardless of the number of shares. The more I hear, the more it really is a lottery. Buy, hope for the best, pay 40% fees and 50% tax on any winnings and you have a great story but far less money than your story would indicate.
Definitely logical reasoning there.

But let's take a look at the hypothetical example of my buddy...

Buy in $750
20% is $150

So he buys $500 of SHIBA

It's now worth approx 50k (for fun let's use round numbers)

20% of 50k = 10k into thin air

Leaves you with 40k

50% is taxed so that leaves you with 20k

All things aside...turning $500 into 20k within 1 year is still a win in my books.
 

GreyGhost

Well-known member
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Definitely logical reasoning there.

But let's take a look at the hypothetical example of my buddy...

Buy in $750
20% is $150

So he buys $500 of SHIBA

It's now worth approx 50k (for fun let's use round numbers)

20% of 50k = 10k into thin air

Leaves you with 40k

50% is taxed so that leaves you with 20k

All things aside...turning $500 into 20k within 1 year is still a win in my books.
It works ok at 4000% return. If you get a 100% return which would normally be considered stellar it's crap. 750 becomes 500 invested becomes 1000 becomes 800 coming out and you get taxed to you are left with 782.5 after tax. Shocking. 100% return on paper, 5% IRL. I am assuming crypto is taxed as a capital gain not income?
 

mimico_polak

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It works ok at 4000% return. If you get a 100% return which would normally be considered stellar it's crap. 750 becomes 500 invested becomes 1000 becomes 800 coming out and you get taxed to you are left with 782.5 after tax. Shocking. 100% return on paper, 5% IRL. I am assuming crypto is taxed as a capital gain not income?
Yes correct. If you're looking at normal sized returns it's not worth the time to set up an account. Agreed 100%.

As far as I understand it's taxed as capital gains. So I guess you can also deduct all the fees / transaction amounts and that would lessen the taxable income. Regardless....100% gambling.
 

GreyGhost

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One big risk obviously is crypto trades 24/7. ETF obviously regular trading hours. If one day BTC started falling off a cliff on Friday night and continued all weekend I wouldn’t be able to sell until Monday morning. That is slightly concerning.
I would assume that you can get after hours trades though as with other securities. Liquidity will be impaired though (although quite possibly less than the liquidity impairment of the underlying crypto). Who tries to catch a falling knife in after-hours trading?
 
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mimico_polak

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I would assume that you can get after hours trades trough as with other securities. Liquidity will be impaired though (although quite possibly less than the liquidity impairment of the underlying crypto). Who tries to catch a falling knife in after-hours trading?
A lot of people that would get freaked out.

Everyone has a dream of hitting it big…not everyone has the nerves to HODL to the moon.
 

GreyGhost

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A lot of people that would get freaked out.

Everyone has a dream of hitting it big…not everyone has the nerves to HODL to the moon.
If the bottom is falling out, there should be a hell of a lot available for sale, but somebody needs to be buying for transactions to happen. I don't know who that somebody is. Trying to catch it while it is dropping off a cliff seems unwise. At least wait until it splats or starts oscillating before adding money. On a related note, I haven't decided whether to double down on LSPD now that it is down ~17% from my first buy.
 
Definitely logical reasoning there.

But let's take a look at the hypothetical example of my buddy...

Buy in $750
20% is $150

So he buys $500 of SHIBA

It's now worth approx 50k (for fun let's use round numbers)

20% of 50k = 10k into thin air

Leaves you with 40k

50% is taxed so that leaves you with 20k

All things aside...turning $500 into 20k within 1 year is still a win in my books.
No idea how your buddy gets ripped off with 20% to buy anything.

Shakepay to Kucoin or Kraken to buy Shib would be ~1.0-1.4% total at most
 

mimico_polak

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No idea how your buddy gets ripped off with 20% to buy anything.

Shakepay to Kucoin or Kraken to buy Shib would be ~1.0-1.4% total at most
I will ask him....text message is pretty clear:

'Recently bought 2k to new, but the effing fees were $400'

He bought Quid and Mintyswap. Whatever the hell that means.
 

Scuba Steve

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Yup but that's ok. I've got one green and 10 red today. Daily numbers are interesting but I'm only really concerned about long-term.
Here is my list
e95e00de499d54b9b50ebc7674c92740.jpg


Sent using a thumb maybe 2
 

mimico_polak

Well-known member
Site Supporter
I know buddy didn't sell when it went to the moon...

1637949474313.png
 

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