should I mix?

[SunnY S]

refused the first appointment a few days agao, where they offered me Moderna and looked at me like I had 2 heads,

found another place today that offered Pfizer to complement my first shot.

Justified....

Canadian health officials defend mix and match COVID-19 vaccine strategy after WHO comments

Canadian officials are defending Canada's mix-and-match approach to vaccinations after the World Health Organization warned Monday about “dangerous trends” in individual vaccination strategies, including mixing and matching.

www.cp24.com

 

[GreyGhost]

Justified....

Canadian health officials defend mix and match COVID-19 vaccine strategy after WHO comments

Canadian officials are defending Canada's mix-and-match approach to vaccinations after the World Health Organization warned Monday about “dangerous trends” in individual vaccination strategies, including mixing and matching.

www.cp24.com

Sadly not a credible source (and I'm not sure a credible source exists anymore). I agree that mixing has not had sufficient study but WHO's position carries zero weight with me based on their recent behavior and actions. Others may choose to give them more weight based on the title of their organization.

 

[mimico_polak]

Sadly not a credible source (and I'm not sure a credible source exists anymore). I agree that mixing has not had sufficient study but WHO's position carries zero weight with me based on their recent behavior and actions. Others may choose to give them more weight based on the title of their organization.

I’d probably trust them more considering Canada is also flip flopping. And I’m sure part of that push was the supply issues of Pfizer.

But you’re correct. Credible sources are hard to come by, plus it’s too late now as everyone we know already got mixed doses.

 

[CriticalCore]

More info I try to dig up on all this the less I even want to get the shot. Between working from home I rarely even go out, not much of a lifestyle change with very little risk as is, at this point will probably wait till my 30s, maybe by then we’ll have actual trials done on the vaccine effects. Between the hyped up death count and all around misinformation I’ll take my chances being in late 20s with low risk anyway.

Would get the JJ one if it comes back, feel a lot better getting injected with a weakened virus strain then mRNA like a test subject.

 

[GreyGhost]

More info I try to dig up on all this the less I even want to get the shot. Between working from home I rarely even go out, not much of a lifestyle change with very little risk as is, at this point will probably wait till my 30s, maybe by then we’ll have actual trials done on the vaccine effects. Between the hyped up death count and all around misinformation I’ll take my chances being in late 20s with low risk anyway.

Would get the JJ one if it comes back, feel a lot better getting injected with a weakened virus strain then mRNA like a test subject.

Medically your analysis seems reasonable. Practically, I suspect you will find substantial limitations on what you are allowed to do (travel obviously restricted to most countries, quite likely concerts/sporting events inaccessible, etc). Those things may not matter to you and that solidifies your desire to wait for proper study results.

On the other hand, if they really screwed up and MRNA wipes out those vaccinated, you survive along with most of the dumbest half of the population (although that could be your chance to take over the world).

 

[CriticalCore]

Medically your analysis seems reasonable. Practically, I suspect you will find substantial limitations on what you are allowed to do (travel obviously restricted to most countries, quite likely concerts/sporting events inaccessible, etc). Those things may not matter to you and that solidifies your desire to wait for proper study results.

On the other hand, if they really screwed up and MRNA wipes out those vaccinated, you survive along with most of the dumbest half of the population (although that could be your chance to take over the world).

Yea even with all the restrictions the only one that managed to get me was getting a dam haircut and stopping by Walmart looking for a new battery to install only to find everything except the food aisle closed off.

Got 50 people in the store shopping with nothing but tissue face masks that barely do anything. Opening up the whole store wouldn’t have changed anything, I suppose Walmart would’ve had to pay more people to clean up or sanitize before and after closing maybe.

 

[Wingboy]

Yea even with all the restrictions the only one that managed to get me was getting a dam haircut and stopping by Walmart looking for a new battery to install only to find everything except the food aisle closed off.

Got 50 people in the store shopping with nothing but tissue face masks that barely do anything. Opening up the whole store wouldn’t have changed anything, I suppose Walmart would’ve had to pay more people to clean up or sanitize before and after closing maybe.

Are you concerned at all about carrying the virus to others being asymptomatic?

 

[GreyGhost]

Are you concerned at all about carrying the virus to others being asymptomatic?

To be fair, science saying vaccine prevents that is also weak. Anecdotally that seems to be the case but we haven't had time yet for thorough scientific tracking/analysis.

 

[Wingboy]

Got 50 people in the store shopping with nothing but tissue face masks that barely do anything.

Show us your data to back up your conclusion.

 

[CriticalCore]

Are you concerned at all about carrying the virus to others being asymptomatic?

Never thought about that, wouldn’t want to get the old man sick, mom has her shots being in health care and all.

Would hope to have symptoms and survive vs being a symptomatic if I could give my infection preferences to the virus strain though.

 

[GreyGhost]

Never thought about that, wouldn’t want to get the old man sick, mom has her shots being in health care and all.

Would hope to have symptoms and survive vs being a symptomatic if I could give my infection preferences to the virus strain though.

Rapid test is available for ~$40. Quite a few false positives, not very many false negatives. There is a middle ground where you can delay vaccination and attempt to protect the vulnerable. If you are interacting with vulnerable people often, costs add up.

 

[CriticalCore]

Show us your data to back up your conclusion.

Data on the cloth face masks that don’t block out the air & moisture particles or the number of people in the store lol. The face masks are confirmed or the latter I got my eye witness testimony!

 

[DownUnder]

To be fair, science saying vaccine prevents that is also weak. Anecdotally that seems to be the case but we haven't had time yet for thorough scientific tracking/analysis.

As Israel is finding out, the mrna "vaccines" aren't vaccines but actually therapeutics. They aren't stopping people getting and transmitting the virus but they seem to help with the severity of symptoms and lowering the overall death rates.

 

[SunnY S]

nobody can dispute the facts, I just read another report today, 99.5 percent of covid DEATH's are for UNvaccinated people. I believe this was in the US.

In Canada, Dr's are reporting vast majority of covid deaths are non vaxxers.


Foolish not to accept it.

 

[Brian P]

As Israel is finding out, the mrna "vaccines" aren't vaccines but actually therapeutics. They aren't stopping people getting and transmitting the virus but they seem to help with the severity of symptoms and lowering the overall death rates.

Before going into a tizzy about Israel getting in so much trouble, look how small the numbers are, compared to the Sept 2020 and Jan 2021 peaks. The Jan 2021 situation coincided roughly with when their vaccination campaign started. Israel COVID: 846,327 Cases and 6,438 Deaths - Worldometer

Factors: few people under 16 years old have been vaccinated at all (they just recently started doing those 12 - 15), vaccines have lower efficacy for the Delta variant, Israel started their vaccine campaign in earnest sooner than anyone else did, and thus IF there is a waning of efficacy with time (quite conceivable) it will be the first to start showing up there.

COVID deaths reported in Israel for first time in over 2 weeks

Unvaccinated 48-year-old man and vaccinated man in his 80s succumb as daily cases keep rising; news outlets say Health Ministry inflating number of serious cases

www.timesofisrael.com

All countries including Canada are vulnerable to rapid spread among (unvaccinated - not eligible) children, especially once school goes back ... the hope is that most kids won't have serious cases.

No one has seriously doubted the possibility that we may need annual-ish booster shots for the next few years.

 

[Dimitri]

nobody can dispute the facts, I just read another report today, 99.5 percent of covid DEATH's are for UNvaccinated people. I believe this was in the US.

UK updated their Variants of Concern Document.

Investigation of SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern: technical briefings

Covering all Delta cases from February 1st to June 21.

Unvaccinated Delta Patients

Overnight Hospital Admissions - 1,182
Deaths - 92

Fully Vaccinated Delta Patients

Overnight Hospital Admissions - 313
Deaths - 118

Doing the same math used for the vaccines.

Vaccine efficacy - Wikipedia

Being double vaccinated prevented overnight hospital stays at a rate of...

(1,182-313)/1,182 = 73.5%

We are still going to have problems as the Delta variant takes hold.

 

[GreyGhost]

UK updated their Variants of Concern Document.

Investigation of SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern: technical briefings

Covering all Delta cases from February 1st to June 21.

Unvaccinated Delta Patients

Overnight Hospital Admissions - 1,182
Deaths - 92

Fully Vaccinated Delta Patients

Overnight Hospital Admissions - 313
Deaths - 118

Doing the same math used for the vaccines.

Vaccine efficacy - Wikipedia

Being double vaccinated prevented overnight hospital stays at a rate of...

(1,182-313)/1,182 = 73.5%

We are still going to have problems as the Delta variant takes hold.

You need at least one more layer of math there. You need to account for percentage double vaccinated vs unvaccinated. Also you should look at the health/succeptability differences in the two groups (vaccinated has a lot of 94 year old overweight diabetics) but that is much harder to quantify.

 

[FullMotoJacket]

You need at least one more layer of math there.

Good luck with that. It doesn't support his narrative.

 

[Dimitri]

You need at least one more layer of math there. You need to account for percentage double vaccinated vs unvaccinated.

Because of how there is a lag between being double vaccinated in the data of 14 days, and the UK's vaccination rate, there isn't that big of a difference. But if you want, let's look at the last two reporting weeks. Between June 7th and June 21st you have new hospitalizations of;

Unvaccinated 1,182 - 251 = 931
Double Vaccinated 313 - 42 = 271

Unvaccinated Rate is simple from June 7th to June 21st
Unvaccinated 39.1% to 35.3% = 37.2%

Double Vaccinated Data is >= 14 days from second dose, so it's actually May 24th to June 7th data on vaccinations in arms.
Double vaccinated 34.9% to 42.4% = 38.7%

Unvaccinated 931 * (38.7%/37.2%) = 969
Vaccinated 271 * (37.2%/38.7%) = 260

(969 - 260) / (969) = 73.2%

Happy?

Overnight hospitalization rate during these two weeks is nearly double for double vaccinated people as compared to unvaccinated.

Unvaccinated 931 / 251 = 371% * (38.7%/37.2%) = 386%
Double Vaccinated 271 / 42 = 645% * (37.2%/38.7%) = 620%

Likely do to a combination of things including letting their guard down now that they are "safe", and the overall increased susceptibility of the age groups that have been double vaccinated.

Also you should look at the health/succeptability differences in the two groups (vaccinated has a lot of 94 year old overweight diabetics) but that is much harder to quantify.

No government has been willing to split the risk factors and measures based on age groups. Which is why this time last year we already knew the average age of death was over 80 world wide, average hospitalized age wasn't too far behind that either. But we still applied blanket measures on the entire population.

Good luck with that. It doesn't support his narrative.

It actually didn't make a statistical difference, so I kept the math simple.

 

[GreyGhost]

Because of how there is a lag between being double vaccinated in the data of 14 days, and the UK's vaccination rate, there isn't that big of a difference. But if you want, let's look at the last two reporting weeks. Between June 7th and June 21st you have new hospitalizations of;

Unvaccinated 1,182 - 251 = 931
Double Vaccinated 313 - 42 = 271

Unvaccinated Rate is simple from June 7th to June 21st
Unvaccinated 39.1% to 35.3% = 37.2%

Double Vaccinated Data is >= 14 days from second dose, so it's actually May 24th to June 7th data on vaccinations in arms.
Double vaccinated 34.9% to 42.4% = 38.7%

Unvaccinated 931 * (38.7%/37.2%) = 969
Vaccinated 271 * (37.2%/38.7%) = 260

(969 - 260) / (969) = 73.2%

Happy?

Overnight hospitalization rate during these two weeks is nearly double for double vaccinated people as compared to unvaccinated.

Unvaccinated 931 / 251 = 371% * (38.7%/37.2%) = 386%
Double Vaccinated 271 / 42 = 645% * (37.2%/38.7%) = 620%

Likely do to a combination of things including letting their guard down now that they are "safe", and the overall increased susceptibility of the age groups that have been double vaccinated.



No government has been willing to split the risk factors and measures based on age groups. Which is why this time last year we already knew the average age of death was over 80 world wide, average hospitalized age wasn't too far behind that either. But we still applied blanket measures on the entire population.



It actually didn't make a statistical difference, so I kept the math simple.

Thanks. Unvax vs Full vax percentages were closer than I expected.

I'm not sure governments are unwilling to split the risk factors or if it is a combination of not knowing which risk factors really matter and/or being completely overwhelmed. Almost one day every week, Ontario numbers were way off as they were behind on data entry and they were just trying to track positive and dead. Adding 100 other things to track would likely have collapsed the tracking system.