Nurse values her job more than life ? I'm sorry saving her life is against our policy

[ItalStal]

Soon as I read it was company policy the one reason struck me.

Litigation.

I have worked in several nursing homes, they are not very fun and yes; the rules are there to protect the individual (Nurse/care worker).

If she had performed cpr and the patient died anyways she could have been held liable to a certain degree.

It sucks but that's how it is in old folks homes. Every time I am at one there is always an ambulance there or arriving, happens all the time.



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[CruisnGrrl]

depends on the home here, i know some require all staff to have cpr/first aid (last time i took a first aid course there were a few people in the course who worked as PSWs or in nursing homes).

 

[mmmnaked]

I can't fault the nurse too much. If thats policy, and the residents signed up for it, then that's all there is to it.

Would I choose to lose my job and face litigation to potentially save the life of a 90 year-old? Doubt it.

 

[rmemedic]

911 gets called all the time when a DNR is in place.

People panic and dont know what to do or how to handle the situation.

Guess what happens when we show up, and you dont produce the DNR form. You get the "full revival" package ..

First thing that gets asked when I'm doing on car shifts and we go in to a nursing home is if the patient has a DNR... A few times they didn't know off hand. Very strange to deal with someone with a DNR, as there are certain things they say they want or don't want done.

In Canada:

We have the good samaritan act

In the US:

Anyone can be sued for breaking a rib on up trying to save someones life and probably sued (with less success) for their death.




Liability.

Cold by our standards.

And this is the exact reason I thought as well... If I was in that nurses shoes I likely would have done the same thing. If it's company policy then that's the way it is.

 

[Bermuda]

If she got fired for breaching protocol and her *** sued to pieces... well, seems to me like she wouldn't have much of a life anymore. between legal fees, being jobless, no on wanting to hire her, major debt, and money she has to pay out to the families.

It's not just about being fired. She would get SUED. she would lose everything.

Seriously?? That's worth watching someone DIE, right in front of you, while you have the means to save them? I couldn't live with myself if I were in her shoes. This is a life, a human life. This nurse is a person who she is getting PAID to take care of her, on top of all of that - but only up until the point she is on the brink of death? The hell? A person who could have been saved, and wasn't over the fear of a possible lawsuit. That's simply wrong. Ethically wrong.

 

[mmmnaked]

Seriously?? That's worth watching someone DIE, right in front of you, while you have the means to save them? I couldn't live with myself if I were in her shoes. This is a life, a human life. This nurse is a person who she is getting PAID to take care of her, on top of all of that - but only up until the point she is on the brink of death? The hell? A person who could have been saved, and wasn't over the fear of a possible lawsuit. That's simply wrong. Ethically wrong.

Bleh.

Losing your job and possibly facing litigation is crippling. Would I put myself and my family through serious hardship to maybe save the life of a 90 year-old? Hell no.

What she did wasn't wrong. The policies of the employer, and the state of their pathetic judicial system is what's wrong. The way I see it is, this nurse had little choice. There's 7 billion other human lives left, after-all.

 

[rmemedic]

We also don't know the level that this "nurse" is trained to... She could just be the lady that brings around the food trays and wheels the occupants to their spot in front of the TV.

It would be stretching it to call some of these workers "nurses". It sounds like the other location has actual nurses from what I read.

It's hard, but at that late age in life, sometimes it's time to go... I've seen old people die as it was their wish to just finally go and just let nature take its course, and I've been there when an elderly patient dies and everything possible is being done... Everyone goes eventually, and she knew that at that facility the attendants had to wait for the EMTs to arrive if she ever needed help.

If I lived in a place like the states, and was in that nurses shoes, I would have done what she did... People get sued way too easily, even if they had the best of intentions.

Even here in Ontario, my arse is covered and I would STILL be nervous about using some of the interventions that I'm trained in if I came up on an accident and someone was very seriously hurt... I would still do them, but that's because we're not in the US.

 

[nobbie48]

Seriously?? That's worth watching someone DIE, right in front of you, while you have the means to save them? I couldn't live with myself if I were in her shoes. This is a life, a human life. This nurse is a person who she is getting PAID to take care of her, on top of all of that - but only up until the point she is on the brink of death? The hell? A person who could have been saved, and wasn't over the fear of a possible lawsuit. That's simply wrong. Ethically wrong.

Move to the USA and then comment. Lose your job and health benefits. No benefits and then your spouse or kids lose their medical benefits. Save an 87 YO or your own family?

 

[nobbie48]

911 gets called all the time when a DNR is in place.

People panic and dont know what to do or how to handle the situation.

Guess what happens when we show up, and you dont produce the DNR form. You get the "full revival" package ..

Are you going to wait until someone finds the forms to show you as the victim lays gasping on the floor? Oh wait it was Martha that had the DNR order. This is Marge. (I'm being synical.)


BTW it happens in Canada but we're nicer about it. Check with ambulance dispatch before commiting a loved one to a particular home. There will be stories.

 

[BusaBob]

CPR on an 87 year old woman. The results won't be very pretty. Chances of survival also very slim, and even if she survived, very poor outcome.

Sometimes, it's just your time to go.

...and the litigiousness problem in the States is just nuts.

 

[crankcall]

we have the answer , litigation.

The back story is , its not the old lady you tried to save and broke a rib that ruins your life, Its the family that hasnt seen Granny since last thanksgiving that with an ambulance chasing lawyer come looking for blood money.

My favorite line from a former nieghbour , it my insurance company sueing your insurance company, its not personal. ...... oh, ok

 

[Mr.Azim]

No. Instead, we live in an economy where your job is worth more than the next persons life, because there are more of those to go around. Live to work, until you can't. Live, that is.

My job = my life/living
Other peoples lives/living < my life/living

Although I do think the nurse had a moral/professional obligation to the individual, if her employment agreement said she could not do this and only do that, then she didn't have much choice.

 

[Jinster81]

This woman passes an employee but fails as an American.

 

[Cat13]

We also don't know the level that this "nurse" is trained to... She could just be the lady that brings around the food trays and wheels the occupants to their spot in front of the TV.

It would be stretching it to call some of these workers "nurses". It sounds like the other location has actual nurses from what I read.

It's hard, but at that late age in life, sometimes it's time to go... I've seen old people die as it was their wish to just finally go and just let nature take its course, and I've been there when an elderly patient dies and everything possible is being done... Everyone goes eventually, and she knew that at that facility the attendants had to wait for the EMTs to arrive if she ever needed help.

If I lived in a place like the states, and was in that nurses shoes, I would have done what she did... People get sued way too easily, even if they had the best of intentions.

Even here in Ontario, my arse is covered and I would STILL be nervous about using some of the interventions that I'm trained in if I came up on an accident and someone was very seriously hurt... I would still do them, but that's because we're not in the US.

I used to work as a cleaner at a hospital when I was in college. The amount of times I got yelled at by family members and patients for something and they didn't understand me saying I wasn't a nurse. I worked at a hospital.... course I was a nurse...

Move to the USA and then comment. Lose your job and health benefits. No benefits and then your spouse or kids lose their medical benefits. Save an 87 YO or your own family?

Exactly and keep in mind their economy isn't doing so well. So you lose your job and your family suffers. Its hard enough to find work there much less with a bad record with your previous employer.

 

[jeffjones]

Same type of things happen in Canada.

Coles Notes:

Kid has asthma attack and visibly in distress
Begs employee "Help, Phone" to call 911
employee says phone isn't for customers to go across the street and use payphone
Someone else calls 911 for him
Paramedics arrive at exit only door and refused entry by employee


http://www.torontosun.com/2013/03/04/tim-hortons-wouldnt-let-boy-call-911

 

[murf]

I wish people would just let them be.
They are the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave.
They are the richest country on the planet with the strongest Military the world has ever seen.
They are exceptional and the world is jealous.

Please use these events to ensure that our great country does not go down that road.

* Based on the new documentary about hunger, in 1970's they had poverty under control with only 200 foodbanks nationwide. Today they have over 4000 foodbanks and 1 in 4 children go without food daily and 2 in 4 children have at one point in life not had food or did not know where the next meal is coming from. We got money for bombs and bullets but no money for books and broccoli.

Canada is supposedly buying a few US fighter jets and claim it will only cost $13 BILLION yet the recently fired Budget Guy said it was going to ACTUALLY cost us more like $26 BILLION. Who are we defending against that we need fighter jets or is this part of the big spending appeasement boondoggle?

Ya, cause no kids in Canada live in poverty:

http://www.conferenceboard.ca/hcp/details/society/child-poverty.aspx

Be thankfull Canada has all those natural resources and has relied on the usa's military, otherwise it would be the same here.

 

[infernobuster]

Are you going to wait until someone finds the forms to show you as the victim lays gasping on the floor? Oh wait it was Martha that had the DNR order. This is Marge. (I'm being synical.)


BTW it happens in Canada but we're nicer about it. Check with ambulance dispatch before commiting a loved one to a particular home. There will be stories.

If we show up and they DONT show us the DNR form right away, that person gets our full attention.

Normally when we do show up and they produce the DNR form, that person has been dead for a while or within the last hour depending.
At that point we dont try and revive them as the DNR was there upon arrival.

 

[crankcall]

At the town I'm in (milton) EMS, fire response, is under 10mins usually, you can wait a while longer if you need police (lots) .

If EMS shows up at the door and somebody has a DNR in hand , you'd have to wonder why that was so handy. Not liked its kept on the fridge door with the kids report cards. Well, not at my house anyway.

 

[hdsomeday]

Question for EMS......is it true that the first thing you do is look for a Medic Alert bracelet (or equivalent)? If so, would it not make sense for someone with a DNR to simply put a bracelet on that states that?

Another question...does DNR apply in the US or is it NO CODE there? The reason I ask is that, if travelling, if you are at the point where a DNR would apply to you (for whatever reason) would you not want anyone that would respond to an emergercy concerning you to know that a DNR is in effect? Im thinking of someone like a 'Snowbird' that has a heart attack or something in Florida, doesnt want to burden the remaining family with hospital bills etc and has/wants DNR. Would EMS in other countries know what DNR is or does NO CODE cover everything?

 

[crankcall]

This reply is actually from my ER nurse wife, medical bracelet with DNR would be a problem since "somebody put a bracelet on gramps after he fell down", then they spit the money.

As a family with snowbirds, by the time DNR comes around your insurance to travel is so expensive you dont go. Crapping out in Miami is really expensive if you want to bring the body home. DNR isnt international, its just too complicated and too easy to fake.

Even if dad dies at home expect to be questioned long here in Ontario, they just want to be sure everything is above board. Which is good actually.