DownUnder
Well-known member
Place went from being one of the most dangerous places on earth to one of the safest in less then a decade. If you ask any normal person on the street they would say its money well spent.
Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....
- Thread starter Paul
- Start date
I was thinking of the wrong country. I had El Salvador in my head. Then again you're definitely talking about a different standard for prisons in pretty much any Central/South American country.
Gaoler
Well-known member
Our problem is we don't have the stomach for treating some people the way they should be treated.
Many refuse to believe there are people who are beyond redemption.
It's pretty sad, but sometimes you run across a case where there's no net benefit to letting someone back into society at large.
Many refuse to believe there are people who are beyond redemption.
It's pretty sad, but sometimes you run across a case where there's no net benefit to letting someone back into society at large.
The El Salvador maxi prison will have innocent people incarcerated for a couple of years, which is wrong.
Our system lets everyone out until proven guilty in court, so masses of potential perpetrators are set free to reoffend, which is wrong.
El Salvador says some innocents will suffer but it's for the overall good of the country.
Canada says some innocents will suffer but it's for the overall good of the country.
Do you favour punishing people that were arrested "Under suspicion" or favour punishing people with no suspicious behavior?
Remember. It's for the good of the country.
The ultimate FAFO consequence.
I'm an adherent to the Blackstone Principle.
I had to look it up.
The Blackstone principle, often summarized as "better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer," emphasizes the importance of protecting the innocent in the legal system. It asserts that the presumption of innocence is a fundamental right, meaning that an accused person is considered innocent until proven guilty. This principle is crucial in ensuring that wrongful convictions are minimized, as it prioritizes the rights of individuals over the potential punishment of the guilty. Additionally, it has been influential in shaping modern legal systems and is often referenced in discussions about justice and morality in law.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=717f...tZm9ybXVsYXRpb24taW4tY3JpbWluYWwuaHRtbA&ntb=1
How would you explain that to the Salvadorans when the ten guilty shut down the education system because kids are afraid of going to school because they get mugged enroute for their shoes, lunch money, watches etc?
It would be interesting to get the opinions of Salvadorans who know a wrongly imprisoned person but at the same time, are enjoying the new peace and freedom.
Think long term. The politicians are doing diddly squat with the problem and our drug, crime, homeless situation is getting worse.
The Blackstone principle has limits.
Yes, and those limits would extend to when you live in a virtual war zone. We aren't there.
"better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer,"
The Blackstone Principle falls spectacularly when you have cops blatantly ignoring peoples rights (or tell them they don't have any) while treating them as guilty automatically during traffic stops and inferred consensual discussions hundreds if not thousands of times daily.
It also fails the individual, unless the individual is a criminal.
Dirty Frank
Well-known member
Street crime along with any any dissidents that the ruling party doesn't care for has been well quelled but other criminality is doing its part to fill the void.
It amounts to a reshuffling not a cure by a long shot.
Who should be punished. Male at the wheel, alleged female accomplice, delivery guy? Discuss
How easy something is to steal doesn't mitigate against the theft. The delivery guy is going to be punished by his insurance company.
No idea how the female was involved and the story doesn't make it any more clear.
The guy who actually stole the car is on the hook for everything that he did.
It's too bad the thief didn't run over the female accomplice in all that commotion.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I don’t worry about that. As long as we have qualified judges before allowing them to run. There is also a robust appeal process that puts a second set of eyes on convictions.
If the people want tough on crime, let them have some democratic say-so.
The alternative is judicial activism and way too many career criminals impacting the lives of law abiding citizens.
I’d go a step further and have a 2 strikes rule that strips citizenship for naturalized Canadians.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I’d imprison repeat criminals until they are tried. Less innocents suffer.
That’s the risk you take for being a bad guy in the first place.
My narrative would be the delivery guy left the car unsecured, possibly running and the male suspect and his skank walked by and noticed. Crime of opportunity.
Male says to skank let's grab it and go for a joyride. Skank is a passenger but knows the car is being stolen. Besides stealing the car, the male makes a bunch of stupid driving decisions.
The delivery guy appears to have failed to secure the car. Stupid but it that a crime? He will lose income until he gets a car back.
RM, I'm going to make some assumptions about you.
You probably have a respectable job that could be affected by criminal activity.
You probably have some amount of property and enough income to disqualify you from legal aid.
You probably have intellectual friends that wouldn't enjoy hearing about you getting involved in petty theft and drug deals.
You probably haven't spent time behind bars as a prisoner
The skanks are probably much the opposite. Basically, nothing to lose.
Humans are very adaptive to situations. Construction workers get used to hot, cold and wet weather. Letter carriers get used to slippery walks, heavy loads and barking dogs. Medics get used to seeing blood and bent limbs.
Career criminals and associated losers get used to prison. Three hots and a cot for life (USA) in some cases. Pecking orders are formed and accepted.
The ideal goal of Corrections is to convert the skanks to respectable people but what is the point if the days of misery for the victims outnumber the days of benefit from the reformed skank?
One clear benefit to society is that you don't need to house someone, at the cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, that has an impact on every tax paying citizen. Another is that you convert a net drain to a net contributor. As I have said, previously, where our system falls down is in how we deal with the persistent offenders. Again, we need to increase the facility to deal with those and alter the way that the system handles them. The majority of people in the system aren't persistent offenders but the "frequent fliers" always get the press.
So how do we deal with the frequent fliers?
I'll throw in another assumption about you. I think you put a lot of work into achieving the other assumptions. You didn't get them free. Even if all your fees were paid you will have had to use your brain, so here's the predicament.
Some friends were taking care of their mid teen grandson (Call him Blip) to give him a break from his lazy POS father who blamed everything that was wrong with their family life on someone else. An opportune moment came along and I was able to ask him what he wanted and the reply was "A radio", basically a ghetto blaster, less than $100.
Trying to get some work ethics / careers into the conversation I mentioned that an electrician could make that in a morning. He snarled back "I don't want to be no electrician." If I had asked him if he wanted to be rich, I'm sure he'd say "Yeah" but couldn't define rich or have a plan to get there.
This happened twenty or thirty years ago and I've lost touch with the family but the last I heard Blip was nothing but trouble, quite possibly a frequent flier.
Theoretically, Blip could be put in prison for five years and spend the time becoming a tradesperson or other contributing member of society.
Personally, I think Blip's life was screwed by his father and is beyond hope. How do you get the Blips to start thinking rationally?
I also know a couple of people that served their time and are working their arses off rebuilding their lives.
How many freebies do the Blips get at the expense of the innocent?
