Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly..... | Page 224 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

Who was in the wrong?

  • Cop

    Votes: 23 21.1%
  • Dude who got shot

    Votes: 31 28.4%
  • I like turtles

    Votes: 55 50.5%

  • Total voters
    109
I thought that's what's being discussed... If I'm charged with assault (as an officer) and the the courts find me not guilty... There's where it should end.







'Blame it on my 30 years experience watching guys get railroaded by their employers AFTER being cleared in court.
That's the bar.?....as long as i don't commit a crime....i cannot be fired? That's it. Never been convicted. Everyone else is fine?

And courts do not find you innocent nor to they clear you of wrongdoing.....just not guilty, not enough evidence to convict. Huge difference.
 
I thought that's what's being discussed... If I'm charged with assault (as an officer) and the the courts find me not guilty... There's where it should end.







'Blame it on my 30 years experience watching guys get railroaded by their employers AFTER being cleared in court.

Just because an incident doesn't meet the threshold for a criminal conviction.. does not mean it did not breach the terms of the contract.
Railroaded? I doubt it... most probably got less than they deserved.
I'm sure that in 'your 30 years experience' that you've seen lots of guys cross the line.. and get away with it.
 
I thought that's what's being discussed... If I'm charged with assault (as an officer) and the the courts find me not guilty... There's where it should end.

'Blame it on my 30 years experience watching guys get railroaded by their employers AFTER being cleared in court.

The level of proof for a criminal case and for a disciplinary panel can be markedly different. For example in the case of Dennis Mahoney-Bruer, that I brought up, the presiding judge in his findings essentially said, "I know what you did and you know what you did, but I cannot find you guilty beyond a reasonable doubt." The disciplinary panel could have found him guilty on the same evidence, but I don't think that he was a cop anymore at that point. He was operating a couple of bars. It's been a while now and, despite taking time off to try and attend the trial(s), I could never nail down where they were held until after the fact.
 
I think it should go through an internal process quickly, as it would in any other business.

1) If there are grounds for dismissal, get it done quickly.
2) disciplinary suspensions should be unpaid
3) Any criminal conviction should be grounds for dismissal regardless of the internal process

like the rest of us, a wrongly punished police officer the civil court system to rely on should the have cause to file a case for wrongful termination.
 
I think it should go through an internal process quickly, as it would in any other business.

1) If there are grounds for dismissal, get it done quickly.
2) disciplinary suspensions should be unpaid
3) Any criminal conviction should be grounds for dismissal regardless of the internal process

like the rest of us, a wrongly punished police officer the civil court system to rely on should the have cause to file a case for wrongful termination.

Fudge, I would been in civil court half my career getting fired and hired back !! Lawyers dream ! There is a reason it is the way it is, but yes improvements are needed.
 
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I wish siu would provide more useful statements. They do very little to calm the rumour mill. I still think they should model their process on the NTSB. Open and transparent release of facts as they are locked down. No speculation prior to final report that then lays out all facts, a supportable description of timeline and recommendations to avoid repeating the exact same investigation with different actors in it. Right now they do none of the above and basically waste money with nothing to show for it.
 
I wish siu would provide more useful statements. They do very little to calm the rumour mill. I still think they should model their process on the NTSB. Open and transparent release of facts as they are locked down. No speculation prior to final report that then lays out all facts, a supportable description of timeline and recommendations to avoid repeating the exact same investigation with different actors in it. Right now they do none of the above and basically waste money with nothing to show for it.

 
I wish siu would provide more useful statements. They do very little to calm the rumour mill.


It wouldn't/doesn't matter in cases such as the one lucky2 posted a link to.
'Family, friends, community as well as anyone with an axe to grind have their minds made up as to how things went down...

Sometimes the only conspiracy is that the is no conspiracy...
 
London, ON police officer got a year in jail for an on the job incident resulting in a death. You don't hear of that happening often.


And.........................

suspended with pay. Convicted criminal. And his lawyer contended going to jail would be too hard on him.
 
How do you get suspended, go to jail as a criminal, yet continue to collect a $90K taxpayer salary for 3 years?

The guy was suspended with pay when he was charged July 2017, convicted in Nov 2019 and is on the payroll?
 
For a change some (mostly) good. 5 ish AM this morning.

Woke up this morning to TTC supervisors and special constables in front of our house and a naked guy standing on the neighbour's hydro meter base (so basically between our houses, yes standing on the meter base) yelling and screaming. The guy is ranting and raving and yelling that there was/is a dog (we do not have one but our cat can be a real jerk....) and the dog attacked him and took his clothes.

EMS showed up next (in minutes) and with the TTC SCs tried to talk him down, no luck. So they backed off to the street.

The bad, it took TPS a good half hour to show up, to be fair I did not call them so I don't know when the TTC guys called it in. One of the TPS mentioned shift change...

The good, once they showed up they had it wrapped up in about 20 minutes. Deescalated the guy and talked him down (he had no weapon, no where to conceal one and white if it matters....).

The guy was obviously on a bad trip. His backpack had a good half dozen prescription pill containers. We live close to the TTC, it likely all started there.
 
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I have no idea what this cop did, but getting criminal charges for an on-duty incident at firing ranges away from public scrutiny means something must have gone terribly wrong. It also sounds like it may have been multiple different days.


On Sept. 24, 2020, Staff Sergeant Roberto Manca, a 23-year member of the OPP currently serving as a Central Region Emergency Response Team, was arrested and charged with four counts of section 244.2(1)(b) discharging firearm - recklessness, and four counts of section 86(1) careless use of a firearm, contrary to the Criminal Code.

The incidents were isolated to on-duty police training exercises at firearm ranges and did not involve the public.
 
I have no idea what this cop did, but getting criminal charges for an on-duty incident at firing ranges away from public scrutiny means something must have gone terribly wrong. It also sounds like it may have been multiple different days.


On Sept. 24, 2020, Staff Sergeant Roberto Manca, a 23-year member of the OPP currently serving as a Central Region Emergency Response Team, was arrested and charged with four counts of section 244.2(1)(b) discharging firearm - recklessness, and four counts of section 86(1) careless use of a firearm, contrary to the Criminal Code.

The incidents were isolated to on-duty police training exercises at firearm ranges and did not involve the public.

The only way those charges happen is if someone was put in danger by the discharge. That likely means firing while someone is down-range, or firing somewhere other than down-range.
 
The only way those charges happen is if someone was put in danger by the discharge. That likely means firing while someone is down-range, or firing somewhere other than down-range.
Could he have been firing around people during a simulation exercise?
 
I think it should go through an internal process quickly, as it would in any other business.

1) If there are grounds for dismissal, get it done quickly.
2) disciplinary suspensions should be unpaid
3) Any criminal conviction should be grounds for dismissal regardless of the internal process

like the rest of us, a wrongly punished police officer the civil court system to rely on should the have cause to file a case for wrongful termination.

It isn't really a "disciplinary suspension" until a finding by the police board. It's more of a "we can't take a chance on you if you actually did this thing that you're accused of" suspension in most cases.
 
It isn't really a "disciplinary suspension" until a finding by the police board. It's more of a "we can't take a chance on you if you actually did this thing that you're accused of" suspension in most cases.
Which is why the police board process should not be put on hold until the criminal case is complete. I have no problem with not allowing the findings of the PSB report to be brought up in the criminal trial. In most cases, if there is sufficient evidence to lay criminal charges, that should be more than enough to PSB to immediately wield a large disciplinary stick.
 
I have no idea what this cop did, but getting criminal charges for an on-duty incident at firing ranges away from public scrutiny means something must have gone terribly wrong. It also sounds like it may have been multiple different days.


On Sept. 24, 2020, Staff Sergeant Roberto Manca, a 23-year member of the OPP currently serving as a Central Region Emergency Response Team, was arrested and charged with four counts of section 244.2(1)(b) discharging firearm - recklessness, and four counts of section 86(1) careless use of a firearm, contrary to the Criminal Code.

The incidents were isolated to on-duty police training exercises at firearm ranges and did not involve the public.
Those are pretty serious offences - 5 years in prison for the first, 2 years for the second. The blueliners normally take care of one another, this guy must have done something really bad to warrant being arrested by his own for actions on a closed range. Is he really the kind of cop we want patrolling the streets?

Anyway, another case where he gets sent home with full pay, probably take 2-3 years to get to trial - but what's another $300K to Ontario taxpayers plus another chunk of change to cover his legal fees?

Ontario is the only province that pays suspended police officers -- when will this end?

I always love this quote from a a few years ago by a Waterloo Regional Police officer who was suspended with pay for three years. He sent an email to the police thanking them for his continued salary while he sat at home, played golf, travelled and took a course to become a firefighter.

"I am very thankful and fortunate to have received such as a nice gift from WRPS over the last three years. You have opened up others doors for me and have paid me to sit back and watch. What a dream come true," Craig Markham wrote.
 

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