The nitrogen wouldn't be a total loss system. It would run from a precharged bottle like that used on a shock reservoir.
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If you could have one bike...
- Thread starter -Maverick-
- Start date
the Nitrogen in suspension systems eventually does need to be recharged – you will slowly loose pressure over time. Most people never end up rebuilding a shock and just swap it when it fails so most people probably are not aware. I had to have my Elka MTB shock recharged when I did a rebuild of it. In a pneumatic valve you also have to deal with oil finding its way into the system – this is why nitrogen (inert) is used instead of air in the first place (air + hot oil = fire hazard).
All MotoGP bikes do use a compressed supply of nitrogen to make up for the loss of Nitrogen in the pneumatic valves. You are never going to have a totally sealed system with something moving as fast as a valve in a sport bike engine. I doubt the technology will ever make it down to street bikes – much more likely to see camless valves first.
Valve Control 101: Pneumatics - good read. Part 1 covers conventional springs, part 2 is desmo.
All MotoGP bikes do use a compressed supply of nitrogen to make up for the loss of Nitrogen in the pneumatic valves. You are never going to have a totally sealed system with something moving as fast as a valve in a sport bike engine. I doubt the technology will ever make it down to street bikes – much more likely to see camless valves first.
Valve Control 101: Pneumatics - good read. Part 1 covers conventional springs, part 2 is desmo.
It has to be a total loss system to work unless there is an on board scavenger tank and compressor.
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Sent from my moto g(7) plus using Tapatalk
Trials
Well-known member
So what I think you are saying is they use 1 air spring in place of 2 coil springs or 1 spring +Desmo 
but keep in mind that if the scientist could figure out a way to open up the entire top area of the combustion chamber on every stroke they would.
:/ 1 big poppet valve to do both jobs of intake and exhaust would be pure genius. or a rotary valve that does both
but keep in mind that if the scientist could figure out a way to open up the entire top area of the combustion chamber on every stroke they would.
:/ 1 big poppet valve to do both jobs of intake and exhaust would be pure genius. or a rotary valve that does both
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actually before WW2 Ducati was an electric company. They made radios and toasters.
Trials
Well-known member
Blowing up fossil fuel is still an imperfect science,
but if you come up with something that grossly surpasses fuel burn efficiency of everything else out there right now and it rides just like a motorcycle and can be easy adapted to safe air flight, you would really have something there
but if you come up with something that grossly surpasses fuel burn efficiency of everything else out there right now and it rides just like a motorcycle and can be easy adapted to safe air flight, you would really have something there
So, you decide to put words into MY mouth and pretend like I actually said this thing?
Trials
Well-known member
That response was to:
pushing the valve closed mechanically would be a Desmo design, unless you literally mean that the valves are opened by a cam :/ which only makes sense, and then literally close it with "nitrogen from a refillable tank carried on board" can't wait to see how that works.
That does not prevent the potential for valve float unless the valve train force is capable of operating in both directions,
pushing the valve closed mechanically would be a Desmo design, unless you literally mean that the valves are opened by a cam :/ which only makes sense, and then literally close it with "nitrogen from a refillable tank carried on board"
can't wait to see how that works.
J_F
Guest
interesting...was Ford running high voltage actuators I wonder? or just battery voltage?
will read up on this
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Pneumatic actuators close the valves cam opens them no springs or desmo. Lots of info on Google.That response was to:
That does not prevent the potential for valve float unless the valve train force is capable of operating in both directions,
pushing the valve closed mechanically would be a Desmo design, unless you literally mean that the valves are opened by a cam :/ which only makes sense, and then literally close it with "nitrogen from a refillable tank carried on board"
Sent from my moto g(7) plus using Tapatalk
That response was to:
That does not prevent the potential for valve float unless the valve train force is capable of operating in both directions,
pushing the valve closed mechanically would be a Desmo design, unless you literally mean that the valves are opened by a cam :/ which only makes sense, and then literally close it with "nitrogen from a refillable tank carried on board"
Some people talk, just to hear themselves.
Trials
Well-known member
Maybe magnetizing the cam follower could be made to work too, some great ideas come about just because somebody imagined it.
You got something better to talk about?
Trials
Well-known member
I came up with a Renault pneumatic spring system
and a Renault proposed hydraulic valve drive that does away with cams altogether.
Trials
Well-known member
Found this:
"Honda’s Pneumatic Valve Return System had inverted pressurized cups attached to the valve stems. The pressure came from nitrogen gas delivered at 6 – 8 bar (87 – 116 psi), equivalent to spring pressure of the replaced components. At the start of a race, the PVRS storage cylinder held approximately 150 bar (2175 psi). Replacing conventional springs reduced engine weight by 20 percent."
They made a lighter engine they didn't make the Desmo concept obsolete.
"Honda’s Pneumatic Valve Return System had inverted pressurized cups attached to the valve stems. The pressure came from nitrogen gas delivered at 6 – 8 bar (87 – 116 psi), equivalent to spring pressure of the replaced components. At the start of a race, the PVRS storage cylinder held approximately 150 bar (2175 psi). Replacing conventional springs reduced engine weight by 20 percent."
They made a lighter engine they didn't make the Desmo concept obsolete.
Koenigsegg Freevalve doesn't have anything close to a cam shaft.
Yup??
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