Furnace and AC... | GTAMotorcycle.com

Furnace and AC...

Zoodles95

Zoodles95

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Hi All,

Just looking for some feedback. The furnace at our place seems to be on its way out. Turns out it is a 2004, single stage etc.

AC unit was put in at the same time so R32 refrigerant which can no longer be recharged?

Got a guy in today and for a new 2 stage furnace and a 17 SEER AC unit would be $10400 before taxes. If we went to a 14 SEER AC unit it would be $9200 before taxes. AC unit would be a 2 ton unit. Our existing furnace is single stage mid efficiency and the existing AC is 13 SEER.

Just seeing if this is pretty competitive price wise? 10 year parts and labor, install to current code etc etc etc. Furnace would be a Lennox unit.

In a perfect world I would replace the furnace and do the AC compressor in a few years. Apparently just doing the furnace is an issue as you can't recharge the old refrigerate anymore?

House is a small raised ranch with about 1200 sq ft.on main level and lower level finished. We are in Waterdown.

Thoughts, feedback, recommendations?

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Zoodles95 said:
Hi All,

Just looking for some feedback. The furnace at our place seems to be on its way out. Turns out it is a 2004, single stage etc.

AC unit was put in at the same time so R32 refrigerant which can no longer be recharged?

Got a guy in today and for a new 2 stage furnace and a 17 SEER AC unit would be $10400 before taxes. If we went to a 14 SEER AC unit it would be $9200 before taxes. AC unit would be a 2 ton unit. Our existing furnace is single stage mid efficiency and the existing AC is 13 SEER.

Just seeing if this is pretty competitive price wise? 10 year parts and labor, install to current code etc etc etc. Furnace would be a Lennox unit.

In a perfect world I would replace the furnace and do the AC compressor in a few years. Apparently just doing the furnace is an issue as you can't recharge the old refrigerate anymore?

House is a small raised ranch with about 1200 sq ft.on main level and lower level finished. We are in Waterdown.

Thoughts, feedback, recommendations?

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
About 8 years ago I'd did the furnace and AC in the last house went 96 efficiency single stage and reasonable efficiency AC 16 seer I think cost savings more than make up any energy saving total was under 6 after tax. 1800 square foot house. I used air cor in in cambridge had the best price and decent workmanship. When I did the math a 20seer would save about 4 dollars a year over a 16. I don't think prices have changed much in that time and if a single stage has worked for you this long and you are happy with save the money.

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My kid runs an hvac operation, just not in the GTA. I’ll send you his rough cost for the unit and install. I paid $2800 for the hardware and $700 for install last summer. Goodman 55k btu furnace, and 2.5ton 16seer ac. No tinwork, no electrical upgrades, used existing line sets.
 
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I'd say your quote is high, or a lot high. Keep shopping around, unless this is normal out in the sticks were you have less competition.
 
sburns said:
I'd say your quote is high, or a lot high. Keep shopping around, unless this is normal out in the sticks were you have less competition.
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Look for contractors in Welland, St C or the Hammer.
 
Mad Mike said:
Look for contractors in Welland, St C or the Hammer.
Click to expand...
Yes exactly, the Hammer should have some better priced options.

If the OP was in Toronto I could give them 3 references as I just went through a bit of furnace troubles recently, luckily I called around because pricing was all over the place. Found a good option and it worked out great. Otherwise this one company wanted like $300 just to show up. :rolleyes:
 
On this house we did Lennox ML296V, last house we put in SLP98V. The SLP was noticeably quieter and had some nice features like numerical codes/airflow instead of a blinky light (that you have to lay on the floor to see). Price was almost double for SLP and ECM has now trickled down to ML so I saved the money. I'm still on the fence as to whether I made the right choice, I wish the furnace was quieter. ML is substantially quieter than the old single stage with 1 HP blower that would oil can all the ductwork every time it turned on but the SLP was noticeably quieter than ML. ML was ~5K installed, I paid close to 10 for SLP in ~2010.

A/C replacement coming up this summer. Current 10 SEER 3 ton R22 that is low on charge. On a hot day, if I turn on A/C, the compressor runs until I turn it off. Previous research has found higher SEER has a low likelihood of payback. Buy higher SEER if you want quieter, multi-stage (another can of worms that may not be worthwhile), etc as they don't normally give you those choices on low SEER models. I will have likely have to re-use the lineset as it is inaccessible but plan on changing the coil (pull piston controlled R22 coil and replace with TXV coil). My coil has a huge pressure drop so I am contemplating some bypass ducting to increase airflow but good luck finding a knowledgeable HVAC company that will understand what you want to do or be willing to do it.

Be careful with installed to code. I have seen a few high efficiency furnaces installed with fresh air drawn from the basement so they can save $20 worth of pipe. Bastards, sure code allows it but it still sucks. I even warned some friends in Waterdown about that and the HVAC people still did it. Get it in writing that they will pull fresh air from outside or you will be putting your house under negative pressure and actively blowing a lot of heated air out of your house.
 
Thanks for the feedback. We are in Waterdown so we are close to Hamilton and Burlington.

I am trying to hold my wife back so we can get a couple of quotes.

Looking for recommendations for an installer. Feel free to send some business my way!

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Zoodles95 said:
Thanks for the feedback. We are in Waterdown so we are close to Hamilton and Burlington.

I am trying to hold my wife back so we can get a couple of quotes.

Looking for recommendations for an installer. Feel free to send some business my way!

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Click to expand...
Try Air Cor.

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GreyGhost said:
ML is substantially quieter than the old single stage with 1 HP blower that would oil can all the ductwork every time it turned on...
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What causes that noise and how does a multistage furnace solve it? It's a little annoying now that I'm in a bungalow with the bedrooms sitting right above the majority of the ducting.
 
We put a Goodman dual stage, high efficiency in our 1500sq ft bungalow in ‘18 and it cost $2400 installed. House was built in ‘99 and furnace and AC were original and there was no issue just changing the furnace and leaving the old AC unit.
We put a Luxaire dual stage, 96 efficient in our current 2800sq ft bungalow and unit itself was around $2500.
 
Relax said:
What causes that noise and how does a multistage furnace solve it? It's a little annoying now that I'm in a bungalow with the bedrooms sitting right above the majority of the ducting.
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Noise is main blower motor. Slp had a thicker cabinet and more sound absorption. Not sure if I'd had a different blade design. Dont get me wrong, its not awful just quieter is better.

Multistage furnace could theoretically be an improvement but in most houses you have a control.issue that complicates that. Most houses dont have enough wires run to the thermostat to accommodate multistage anything. They send a heating or cooling signal to the furnace and let the furnace sort it out. For the SLP that means seven minutes on low, 15 minutes on medium and then high if it hasn't satisfied yet. Normal operation wouldnt get to high, just on a set point change. On ML, I get seven minutes on low, then high. As I downsized the furnace by over 30K BTU, it hits high everytime. If I could lock out high, I would probably be ok and it would just run constantly on low instead of cycling. I dont think there is an easy way for me to lock out high, it may be a bodge (eg tell furnace it has two-stage thermostat and furnace never sees call for high heat).

Smart thermostats are still incredibly dumb, they are just pretty and none of them have implemented the incredibly easy and effective solution to this problem (control box beside furnace with tons of i/o terminals controlled via serial connection down a wire pair). That would allow any house to easily control multistage heat and ac, hrv, humidifier etc.
 
crankcall said:
only thing I can add is do not let a Reliance truck in your driveway, even on your street if you can control that LOL
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That is normally my default position as well. A few people in the subdivision absolutely love reliance yanch though so maybe there are some good parts of that operation?

I used furnacedepot.ca as he lives in the neighbourhood, was reasonably priced and didnt seem like an idiot. I'm not sure if he does your area. I see he will wholesale an luxaire 2 stage for $2000 now. If you pay him for an installed furnace he subs out the install.
 
GreyGhost said:
Noise is main blower motor. Slp had a thicker cabinet and more sound absorption. Not sure if I'd had a different blade design. Dont get me wrong, its not awful just quieter is better.

Multistage furnace could theoretically be an improvement but in most houses you have a control.issue that complicates that. Most houses dont have enough wires run to the thermostat to accommodate multistage anything. They send a heating or cooling signal to the furnace and let the furnace sort it out. For the SLP that means seven minutes on low, 15 minutes on medium and then high if it hasn't satisfied yet. Normal operation wouldnt get to high, just on a set point change. On ML, I get seven minutes on low, then high. As I downsized the furnace by over 30K BTU, it hits high everytime. If I could lock out high, I would probably be ok and it would just run constantly on low instead of cycling. I dont think there is an easy way for me to lock out high, it may be a bodge (eg tell furnace it has two-stage thermostat and furnace never sees call for high heat).

Smart thermostats are still incredibly dumb, they are just pretty and none of them have implemented the incredibly easy and effective solution to this problem (control box beside furnace with tons of i/o terminals controlled via serial connection down a wire pair). That would allow any house to easily control multistage heat and ac, hrv, humidifier etc.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I meant the oil can sound of the ducts popping back and forth.

I already have the control problem with only a 4-wire thermostat cable plus the add-on wiring harness for our Ecobee. Eventually I'd like to fish an 8-wire cable to tie in the humidifier, dehumidifier, and air exchanger all into one IAQ thermostat. Still researching on who makes a good one, but I assume it will be Honeywell.
 
Relax said:
Sorry, I meant the oil can sound of the ducts popping back and forth.

I already have the control problem with only a 4-wire thermostat cable plus the add-on wiring harness for our Ecobee. Eventually I'd like to fish an 8-wire cable to tie in the humidifier, dehumidifier, and air exchanger all into one IAQ thermostat. Still researching on who makes a good one, but I assume it will be Honeywell.
Click to expand...
Ah, two stage may help with oil canning. Main improvement there was downsizing furnace so air volume was lower. At high now, my ducts are undersized, with the furnace that was grossly oversized, they were begging for mercy. 100F temp rise on the old furnace. Losers.
 
GreyGhost said:
Noise is main blower motor. Slp had a thicker cabinet and more sound absorption. Not sure if I'd had a different blade design. Dont get me wrong, its not awful just quieter is better.

Multistage furnace could theoretically be an improvement but in most houses you have a control.issue that complicates that. Most houses dont have enough wires run to the thermostat to accommodate multistage anything. They send a heating or cooling signal to the furnace and let the furnace sort it out. For the SLP that means seven minutes on low, 15 minutes on medium and then high if it hasn't satisfied yet. Normal operation wouldnt get to high, just on a set point change. On ML, I get seven minutes on low, then high. As I downsized the furnace by over 30K BTU, it hits high everytime. If I could lock out high, I would probably be ok and it would just run constantly on low instead of cycling. I dont think there is an easy way for me to lock out high, it may be a bodge (eg tell furnace it has two-stage thermostat and furnace never sees call for high heat).

Smart thermostats are still incredibly dumb, they are just pretty and none of them have implemented the incredibly easy and effective solution to this problem (control box beside furnace with tons of i/o terminals controlled via serial connection down a wire pair). That would allow any house to easily control multistage heat and ac, hrv, humidifier etc.
Click to expand...
On ours you can lock out stages if you go into the advanced settings on the thermostat.

We have just one spot in our ducting that pops all the time. Hoping it's a new-build thing that will go away as I'm not sure there's anything I can do about it.
 
We paid $4800 all in for our ARMSTRONG AIR PRO Series something something last year. Blower motor was making some weird noises and the price to replace that part was $3500. Same thing happened at our old townhouse. Crack in the assembly making noise, and it was better move financially to just replace the furnace then the part only. Highest quote we got was $5800.

Got it through DELTA Heating if you want a contact let me know. He's from Etobicoke but goes out to Oakville or further, been a while since I spoke with him.
 
Hardwrkr13 said:
On ours you can lock out stages if you go into the advanced settings on the thermostat.

We have just one spot in our ducting that pops all the time. Hoping it's a new-build thing that will go away as I'm not sure there's anything I can do about it.
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If the popping part is accessible, put a light ratchet strap around the duct. Adjust tension till it stops popping.
 
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