Daily sports car?

[Relax]

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Unless huge strides get made wrt battery capacity, recharge times and infrastructure, EV and performance (yes, yes, instant torque... but... range) just seem to be at odds with each other.

As much as I hate Tesla as a car, company, and person, don't you remember when the most mileage you could get out of an EV was about 160 kms? Then the Model S came out and blew peoples' minds by almost tripling that. Give it time.

I also remember when my phone only had 30 minutes talk time and took 10 hours to charge.

 

[GreyGhost]

As much as I hate Tesla as a car, company, and person, don't you remember when the most mileage you could get out of an EV was about 160 kms? Then the Model S came out and blew peoples' minds by almost tripling that. Give it time.

I also remember when my phone only had 30 minutes talk time and took 10 hours to charge.

It would be counter to this thread but an easy way to increase range is to make the corolla of EV's. 75 hp electric motor would be faster than every ICE version (excluding GR). When was the last time we saw an EV with less than 200 hp? It's a cheap upgrade for manufacturers to make so I understand why they do it but real world range would be far higher with the smaller motor as people don't realize how far they are dipping their toe.

 

[Wingboy]

As much as I hate Tesla as a car, company, and person, don't you remember when the most mileage you could get out of an EV was about 160 kms? Then the Model S came out and blew peoples' minds by almost tripling that. Give it time.

I also remember when my phone only had 30 minutes talk time and took 10 hours to charge.

Ya. I remember when have was 35 cents a gallon. Lol.

 

[Lightcycle]

As much as I hate Tesla as a car, company, and person, don't you remember when the most mileage you could get out of an EV was about 160 kms? Then the Model S came out and blew peoples' minds by almost tripling that. Give it time.

I also remember when my phone only had 30 minutes talk time and took 10 hours to charge.

Was watching a docu on EVs and why sales are stalling lately.

Part of it is that buyers can't keep up with the rate of change within the technology. When battery and charging tech becomes outdated within 2-3 years and depreciation rates of current EVs go through the floor as a result, first-time buyers tend to stay on the sidelines waiting for the tech to stabilize.

Nobody expects MY2028 cars to get 2-3X better fuel economy than current cars and those future ICE cars will still take 2 minutes to fill up a tank, as they did back in 2010 and 1980...

However, who knows what to expect from MY2028 EVs...?

So, in a roundabout way, the fast-pace of EV tech is actually hurting the adoption rate.

 

[GreyGhost]

Was watching a docu on EVs and why sales are stalling lately.

Part of it is that buyers can't keep up with the rate of change within the technology. When battery and charging tech becomes outdated within 2-3 years and depreciation rates of current EVs go through the floor as a result, first-time buyers tend to stay on the sidelines waiting for the tech to stabilize.

Nobody expects MY2028 cars to get 2-3X better fuel economy than current cars and those future ICE cars will still take 2 minutes to fill up a tank, as they did back in 2010 and 1980...

However, who knows what to expect from MY2028 EVs...?

So, in a roundabout way, the fast-pace of EV tech is actually hurting the adoption rate.

Also, if you already have one, why pay the huge delta to upgrade? How much is different between a new model S and one 15 years old? They seem to be eol'd more because of crashes than being beyond economical repair. So the early and mid adopters are satisfied, the late adopters (for the most part) can't afford the entry so you just need to produce enough to cover the crashed ones plus a few more.

 

[Relax]

Also, if you already have one, why pay the huge delta to upgrade? How much is different between a new model S and one 15 years old? They seem to be eol'd more because of crashes than being beyond economical repair.

Is it actually "economical" to repair a Model S? I mean for the general public that needs to have a shop fix it for them. Is it like a PC where you can just reflash the firmware? Sure, there's a lot of stuff you don't have to worry about - ICE engine, exhaust, transmission, transfer case/diff. But it can't be cheap to replace proprietary boards/ECU's/control modules. If an electric motor fails, can they be rebuilt or just replaced? Battery packs are a definite replacement. Everything else is typical for the auto industry - brakes, suspension, steering, HVAC. The body and frame could last forever being all aluminum.

 

[GreyGhost]

Is it actually "economical" to repair a Model S? I mean for the general public that needs to have a shop fix it for them. Is it like a PC where you can just reflash the firmware? Sure, there's a lot of stuff you don't have to worry about - ICE engine, exhaust, transmission, transfer case/diff. But it can't be cheap to replace proprietary boards/ECU's/control modules. If an electric motor fails, can they be rebuilt or just replaced? Battery packs are a definite replacement. Everything else is typical for the auto industry - brakes, suspension, steering, HVAC. The body and frame could last forever being all aluminum.

A friend did a battery pack on an old S. 15k iirc. Brought the car back to close to new. While expensive, compared to a 15K car, it was miles nicer. The mmi on old tesla kills itself but aftermarket has found a way to deal with that. It should be perpetual warranty imo as that fault is purely a manufacturer f up. Writing millions of logs to a card with a limited lifespan and the owner can't even access the logs. Purely for tesla's use. F them.

 

[High Flya]

Been seeing a lot of this in my feeds:

Dat asssss:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a69636201/2027-toyota-gr-gt-supercar-revealed/

$4-500K.

....so back to sports cars; as much as it's encouraging to see an oem still bringing out stuff like this, it demonstrates that newer isn't always better/progress. The LFA was way better, and that came out 15 years ago. Not that's in my price bracket, but who in their right mind wouldn't buy a LFA instead of this GRGT for the same money?

 

[Lightcycle]

....so back to sports cars; as much as it's encouraging to see an oem still bringing out stuff like this, it demonstrates that newer isn't always better/progress. The LFA was way better, and that came out 15 years ago. Not that's in my price bracket, but who in their right mind wouldn't buy a LFA instead of this GRGT for the same money?

You're not wrong.

However, current market prices for used LFAs are over double their original MSRP...

LFA

Browse and bid online for the chance to own a Lexus LFA at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online.

bringatrailer.com

A true collectible, unlike those manufactured artificial scarcity models.

Also... who the heck paid $1.6M for one?!?!

 

[GreyGhost]

You're not wrong.

However, current market prices for used LFAs are over double their original MSRP...

LFA

Browse and bid online for the chance to own a Lexus LFA at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online.

bringatrailer.com

A true collectible, unlike those manufactured artificial scarcity models.

Also... who the heck paid $1.6M for one?!?!

Exactly. Assuming it wouldn't make you insolvent, 500k for an lfa would be an easy decision.

 

[Evoex]

You're not wrong.

However, current market prices for used LFAs are over double their original MSRP...

LFA

Browse and bid online for the chance to own a Lexus LFA at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online.

bringatrailer.com

A true collectible, unlike those manufactured artificial scarcity models.

Also... who the heck paid $1.6M for one?!?!

2k-Mile 2012 Lexus LFA Nurburgring Package

Bid for the chance to own a 2k-Mile 2012 Lexus LFA Nurburgring Package at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #67,771.

bringatrailer.com

lol the seats

 

[Hardwrkr13]

Was watching a docu on EVs and why sales are stalling lately.

Part of it is that buyers can't keep up with the rate of change within the technology. When battery and charging tech becomes outdated within 2-3 years and depreciation rates of current EVs go through the floor as a result, first-time buyers tend to stay on the sidelines waiting for the tech to stabilize.

Nobody expects MY2028 cars to get 2-3X better fuel economy than current cars and those future ICE cars will still take 2 minutes to fill up a tank, as they did back in 2010 and 1980...

However, who knows what to expect from MY2028 EVs...?

So, in a roundabout way, the fast-pace of EV tech is actually hurting the adoption rate.

You're not wrong.
I do feel though that we're one good EV roadster away from shaking up the used ICE sportscar market. When I say good that includes price/range/performance. This might be why I'm finding it difficult to commit to another car right now as /i like to make money on them.
Right now the analog market is heating up but as the buyers age that will go away as well (just look at the 60's muscle car market even the 90's F-body market that was heating up is cooling fast)

 

[High Flya]

EVs make for bad sportscars as they seem to feel like a simulation of a driving simulator. A lot of that is the weight, and the attempts to disguise it, but you can't cheat physics. I think regulations and design trends are pushing EVs further in that direction, so I'd be shocked if an EV that feels like a real sportscar gets made.

 

[Mad Mike]

Dunno about that. Emissions standards in the US are state-based, not federal and the most restrictive regulation is California's CARB.

Also CARB isn't the only market that has strict emissions, safety and noise regulations. Another big one is Euro 6, so even if CA lowered its standards, the European market still has its own hurdles and hoops to jump through.

They are both state and federal, but mostly federal. The Fed's set tail pipe emissions, fuel effeciency, tampering rules and mandatory ev targets.

 

[Lightcycle]

They are both state and federal, but mostly federal. The Fed's set tail pipe emissions, fuel effeciency, tampering rules and mandatory ev targets.

Not accurate.

As it pertains to the specific topic at hand - emissions standards - the federal governing body is the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

Under US EPA, there is a provision called the Clean Air Act (CAA) that allows other governmental entities to set thier own emissions standards.

From the US EPA site:

Basic Information about the Emission Standards Reference Guide for On-road and Nonroad Vehicles and Engines | US EPA

The page contains overview information on mobile sources, EPA's approach to regulating the emissions from mobile sources, and the vehicle/engine certification process.

www.epa.gov

Standards Set by Other Government Entities

Under the CAA the California Air Resources Board (CARB) may also adopt and enforce its own emissions standards

Since CARB imposes stricter emissions standards than US EPA, it over rules the federal standards. This is the reason vehicle manufacturers aim for CARB compliance as it guarantees that they will automatically comply with both US EPA and Euro 6, which have less strict requirements.

In the context of this thread, can Trump change US EPA's allowance, repeal the CAA and make the more lax federal standard apply at the state level? Anything is possible, but guaranteed there will be an extended legal fight over this and three years from now, after Trump leaves office, most of his reforms will be reversed anyway.

Will vehicle manufacturers immediately jump on any changes to the CAA and modify their emissions targets just for such a short period? Unlikely, especially when Euro 6 will inevitably be superceded by Euro 7 and Euro 8, which will certainly be stricter than even CARB is today.

 

[mimico_polak]

Not a sports car ... but DAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMNNNNNN....

Genesis G90 Wingback teases a possible BMW M5 Touring rival | Evo

Genesis wants to expand its Magma brand into ‘a spectrum of typologies’ that includes sports cars, convertibles and apparently super estates

www.evo.co.uk

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