COVID and the housing market

Do people feel we have hit the low in the market, or is this still to come?
I think people started feeling that it's the low end...and now all this talk of rate raises next week have put people on guard again in a wait and see type of moment.

Our street is tanking (Dundas / Mavis area) and the recent sales of a bungalow and side split have really tanked the market.

Any inclination we had of moving is out the window right now.
 
I think people started feeling that it's the low end...and now all this talk of rate raises next week have put people on guard again in a wait and see type of moment.

Our street is tanking (Dundas / Mavis area) and the recent sales of a bungalow and side split have really tanked the market.

Any inclination we had of moving is out the window right now.
If you look at a hyper-local market like your street, a few panic/indiference sales (divorce, estate, relocation to LTC, etc) can depress the values substantially. In that case, the comp price doesn't really represent the price of that product in that market but it will still be used for future sales and take a long time for values to recover to match nearby similar streets.
 
If you look at a hyper-local market like your street, a few panic/indiference sales (divorce, estate, relocation to LTC, etc) can depress the values substantially. In that case, the comp price doesn't really represent the price of that product in that market but it will still be used for future sales and take a long time for values to recover to match nearby similar streets.
Sadly you are correct.

Recent sales on our street:

- dead spouse x 3 (in their 70s) (#4 being prepared already)
- divorce x1
- unaffordable to continue x1

However, I'm glad to see that the new buyers on the street so far are renovating and appear to be for their own families instead of rentals...from discussions / observations. Reality may be very different.
 
That’s a surprise because that two yrs ago was a million plus for the lot and they would knock it down for the McMansion. Might be some slowing on mansion building also .


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Two years ago the one right beside was 1.55 million fully renovated but huge tree in the front. New owner tried for 3 feet forward and 2 higher DENIED. They dumped it and got $1.15 million that’s the new bench mark the realtors use. It’s apples to oranges in my opinion. Across has no trees blocking a big stupid build.
 
I think people started feeling that it's the low end...and now all this talk of rate raises next week have put people on guard again in a wait and see type of moment.

Our street is tanking (Dundas / Mavis area) and the recent sales of a bungalow and side split have really tanked the market.

Any inclination we had of moving is out the window right now.
As I’ve said before, the next year or two could be a good time to turn lemons into lemonade if you’ve got a few bucks, the stomach and the time. I remember looking at 4 bedroom houses in the Beaches (with parking) in ‘95 for $320k-$360 when the market tanked. I chickened out and played it safe with a $215k subdivision house in Brooklin. I wasted all the money I saved on motorcycles and women, don’t be that guy. If I had bought one of those houses in the Beaches my net worth today would be significantly higher. When you’ve lived through a few economic cycles you see things a little differently.
 
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If I had bought one of those houses in the Beaches my net worth today would be significantly higher.
Probably but also your disposable income over all these years would almost certainly have been much lower. Would you have been happier with more house and less bikes? Housing net worth is a fun number on paper but for most people, it represents dead money that they will never get to enjoy and it will pass to their heirs (either after a move to LTC or death).
 
Probably but also your disposable income over all these years would almost certainly have been much lower. Would you have been happier with more house and less bikes? Housing net worth is a fun number on paper but for most people, it represents dead money that they will never get to enjoy and it will pass to their heirs (either after a move to LTC or death).
That’s true if you only have a primary residence but having a higher net worth allows you to acquire additional investment properties when golden opportunities present themselves, residential or otherwise. The most financially successful people I’ve known over the years have had two things in common, they all did it through real estate and were not particularly intelligent people.
 
That’s true if you only have a primary residence but having a higher net worth allows you to acquire additional investment properties when golden opportunities present themselves, residential or otherwise. The most financially successful people I’ve known over the years have had two things in common, they all did it through real estate and were not particularly intelligent people.
Buying rental properties is an entirely different conversation than buying a more expensive house to live in. There is a path where the beaches house appreciated faster which allowed you to pull more out which allowed you to buy more rental properties but most people don't have the stones to leverage their primary residence to the limit. I try to keep 30-50% leverage and that is scary/painful enough at times. I understand the appeal of a paid-off house but the missed opportunity cost is ridiculously large (millions over a lifetime for many homeowners).

For most people, leverage is the key to wealth and most people only use leverage for real estate. Using leverage for other investments can have similar returns but it isn't as common. Everybody expects you to borrow for a mortgage but if you tell them you borrowed to invest in the markets, they look at you like a degenerate gambler.
 
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Buying rental properties is an entirely different conversation than buying a more expensive house to live in. There is a path where the beaches house appreciated faster which allowed you to pull more out which allowed you to buy more rental properties but most people don't have the stones to leverage their primary residence to the limit. I try to keep 30-50% leverage and that is scary/painful enough at times. I understand the appeal of a paid-off house but the missed opportunity cost is ridiculously large (millions over a lifetime for many homeowners).

For most people, leverage is the key to wealth and most people only use leverage for real estate. Using leverage for other investments can have similar returns but it isn't as common. Everybody expects you to borrow for a mortgage but if you tell them you borrowed to invest in the markets, they look at you like a degenerate gambler.
I hate debt so I pay everything off. Opportunity cost may be high but I sleep well.

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I hate debt so I pay everything off. Opportunity cost may be high but I sleep well.

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That's a reasonable position to take. You also took a different path to wealth, leverage isn't the only one. As long as people understand and make educated decisions, I can't criticize the choice they make. If my net worth was 10x what it is now, would I keep my foot on the gas and keep so much risk exposure? Probably not. At that point, I may choose to pay off loans as that's a guaranteed ~4% after tax. I think I'll always keep a percentage exposed but that percentage will change over time.
 
Our street is tanking (Dundas / Mavis area) and the recent sales of a bungalow and side split have really tanked the market.

Any inclination we had of moving is out the window right now.

Hmmm...........

Not certain I understand your rationale on this. Everyone wants to sell high and buy low, which in most real estate markets is not possible unless you plan to move from the GTA to an area with especially depressed values.

You might want to look at it from a gap perspective. By way of example, picking numbers out of the air, in a good market you might sell your house for $1.3M to buy another priced at $1.7M. Forget about fees and closing costs to make the calculation simpler. The gap here is $400K. In a bad market let's assume everything in down by 30%. You can now sell your house for just $910K ($1.3M x .7), but the purchase price of the other property is now reduced to $1.19M (1.7M x .7). The gap here is $280K, not the $400K you need when the market is higher. The original gap of $400K is now $280K ($400K x .7)

If you're selling and buying in the same market it might actually cost you less (the gap) in terms of the extra funds you need to sell low and then buy low.

Now, obviously, the reduction in prices may not be exactly 30% everywhere, but you get the drift on this in that it's really the gap that matters, not so much the price at any one point in time.
 
Hmmm...........

Not certain I understand your rationale on this. Everyone wants to sell high and buy low, which in most real estate market is not possible unless you plan to move from the GTA to an area with especially depressed values.

You might want to look at it from a gap perspective. By way of example, picking numbers out of the air, in a good market you might sell your house for $1.3M to buy another priced at $1.7M. Forget about fees and closing costs to make the calculation simpler. The gap here is $400K. In a bad market let's assume everything in down by 30%. You can now sell your house for just $910K ($1.3M x .7), but the purchase price of the other property is now reduced to $1.19M (1.7M x .7). The gap here is $280K, not the $400K you need when the market is higher. The original gap of $400K is now $280K ($400K x .7)

If you're selling and buying in the same market it might actually cost you less (the gap) to sell low and then buy low.
Imo, his street has been hit hard by recent fire sales. Unless he wanted to buy on his street, imo the gap between what he has and what he wants has grown by hundreds of thousands temporarily.
 
Imo, his street has been hit hard by recent fire sales. Unless he wanted to buy on his street, imo the gap between what he has and what he wants has grown by hundreds of thousands temporarily.

Maybe, maybe not. There are distress sales everywhere for many reasons, death, divorces, finance issues etc.....
 
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