COVID and the housing market

[GreyGhost]

^
30 years old is of huge cultural importance in Asia

Sheng nu - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Unmarried and Over 27? In China, That Makes You a “Leftover Woman”

Sheng nu refers to any urban, professional woman over the age of 27 who is still single.

www.vogue.com

That's fair, I would be fine if that study looked at 30 year olds. A specific age makes sense. A range a decade long is statistical mud.

 

[Hardwrkr13]

Wife's sister started looking for her first house and on day two found a condo instead in her price range of $550k. In a small town and it's overpriced. She doesn't love it but thinks it's all she can afford even though I've shown her there's some much better detached only needing some minor lipstick work that would be better and actually make her some money when she sells. Telling her how easy that lipstick work is isn't sinking in. Her agent isn't helpful and just wants a sale which is easy to see. Agent convinced her to put in an offer on the overpriced condo (on the market over 2 weeks) so she did. Really hoping she doesn't get it.

 

[mimico_polak]

Wow. That’s too bad about the agent @Hardwrkr13 but is very common.
While our agent didn’t do much to help us find this house (we were just lucky) she did do an awesome job on selling our previous place.

If the deal falls through I say dump the agent and find a new one.

UPDATE: my buddy that had the seller refuse all offers and wanted a condition where the deal couldn’t be broken due to seeing the condo financials ended up relenting on that condition and buddy got the condo. Didn’t ask how much but he went in with an offer 4 times.

 

[crankcall]

Wife's sister started looking for her first house and on day two found a condo instead in her price range of $550k. In a small town and it's overpriced. She doesn't love it but thinks it's all she can afford

sounds like she got caught in the phenom called 'emotion purchase syndrome' , if I don't buy this I may get nothing.
Not unlike the bidding process, " I must win this house or my friends and girlfriend will think I'm not tough enough"

separation of business and emotion is really hard when it comes to housing

 

[GreyGhost]

Hmm. Interesting strategy for expensive non-principal properties. A company owns the property and when you want to sell, the buyer buys the company, not the property so you don't trigger land transfer tax (and potentially also get to use the $800K+ small business capital gain exemption).

Leaked records open a 'Pandora' box of financial secrets

Hundreds of world leaders, powerful politicians, billionaires, celebrities, religious leaders and drug dealers have been hiding their investments in mansions, exclusive beachfront property, yachts and other assets for the past quarter-century, according to a review of nearly 12 million files...

www.680news.com

 

[mimico_polak]

Hmm. Interesting strategy for expensive non-principal properties. A company owns the property and when you want to sell, the buyer buys the company, not the property so you don't trigger land transfer tax (and potentially also get to use the $800K+ small business capital gain exemption).

Leaked records open a 'Pandora' box of financial secrets

Hundreds of world leaders, powerful politicians, billionaires, celebrities, religious leaders and drug dealers have been hiding their investments in mansions, exclusive beachfront property, yachts and other assets for the past quarter-century, according to a review of nearly 12 million files...

www.680news.com

Wow. I’m poor I guess because I’ve never heard or considered that option.

Next time I buy an investment property I think I’ll go the Corp route. Didn’t do it the first time, and could probably have saved some good coin.

My buddy set up a Corp and does weird businesses with it. Also uses it to make his 300k/year contract salary trickle to him to not be hit all at once.

 

[GreyGhost]

Wow. I’m poor I guess because I’ve never heard or considered that option.

Next time I buy an investment property I think I’ll go the Corp route. Didn’t do it the first time, and could probably have saved some good coin.

My buddy set up a Corp and does weird businesses with it. Also uses it to make his 300k/year contract salary trickle to him to not be hit all at once.

If you are going to start investing in property or plan on spinning up an operating company or working on contract, investigate a family trust. Not as good as it used to be wrt income sprinkling but it allows you to spread income over time (either to even out good or bad years or to save money pre-personal income tax for the long-term). If you sell companies in the trust, each family member is eligible for 800k+ (indexed to inflation) in tax free capital gains.

 

[mimico_polak]

If you are going to start investing in property or plan on spinning up an operating company or working on contract, investigate a family trust. Not as good as it used to be wrt income sprinkling but it allows you to spread income over time (either to even out good or bad years or to save money pre-personal income tax for the long-term). If you sell companies in the trust, each family member is eligible for 800k+ (indexed to inflation) in tax free capital gains.

You’re going to be my first business expense when it’s time. ‘Financial planning business meeting’ will be the expense line.

 

[Baggsy]

Neighbor to the house where we used to live just sold for $2 million. I can't afford this market.

 

[mimico_polak]

Neighbor to the house where we used to live just sold for $2 million. I can't afford this market.

We couldn’t afford this place if we tried now. Zero chance.

We sold our investment property to buy this, and our town…so maybe those would also rise accordingly and maybe we could afford a MORE expensive house….insanity.

Although we have seen houses staying on the market longer. Particularly the cottage area (dads been looking).

 

[crankcall]

apparently to 'afford' a Toronto house right now takes a family income of $196,000.00 . There are a lot of people that cannot afford the GTA market . And they are couples with ok jobs.

 

[mimico_polak]

apparently to 'afford' a Toronto house right now takes a family income of $196,000.00 . There are a lot of people that cannot afford the GTA market . And they are couples with ok jobs.

And yet the market is on fire…making housing an investment is something that (I personally think) cannot be reversed nowadays without major implications.

No politician will touch it, so let the poors deal with it and blame it on them for not working hard enough.

 

[GreyGhost]

And yet the market is on fire…making housing an investment is something that (I personally think) cannot be reversed nowadays without major implications.

No politician will touch it, so let the poors deal with it and blame it on them for not working hard enough.

Forget poors, we are talking about four times the median income to have a chance at paying for the mortgage. God knows how they are supposed to save up a six figure downpayment at the same time as house prices increase by a bigger six figure number every year.

No homeowner I know could afford to buy their current house. Even years ago, the only way they could afford their house was a previous house that ran up in value at a ridiculous rate (us included).

 

[crankcall]

Most of my friends have traded up to get where they are, they could all afford to buy in again if they had to, but it would be much smaller and in a much 'lesser' postal code.

Guy Average is pretty screwed

 

[nobbie48]

Wow. I’m poor I guess because I’ve never heard or considered that option.

Next time I buy an investment property I think I’ll go the Corp route. Didn’t do it the first time, and could probably have saved some good coin.

My buddy set up a Corp and does weird businesses with it. Also uses it to make his 300k/year contract salary trickle to him to not be hit all at once.

i knew a contractor that started a management company that managed his contracting company. He dumped the profits into the management company to defer taxes. Put family on the payroll. It's a balancing act with the accounting.

 

[POWERMAN]

I've been spending the past couple of weekends looking for a place to buy in Hamilton.
Prices already crept up to the 600k-700k+ range for downtrodden / beat up properties.

A few cases the main and upper floor were completely redone and I was taken a aback at the level of detail they put into them...only to find out that the basement is unfinished and looks like some ghoulish slaughterhouse where one would expect to find the creepy crawlies lurking in the shadows.
A bit frustrating as you will not see any pictures of those basements on the listing lol.

Long story short - anything half decent that is visually appealing seems to be in the 1million+ range.

 

[crankcall]

There are still some value homes along Beach Rd ( its not near the beach) and some East end postal codes around the industrial areas. Its not for everyone, but somebody has to live there.
Barton, Melvin, Parkdale area , they are in the news a lot, but housing may be affordable .

 

[nobbie48]

I've been spending the past couple of weekends looking for a place to buy in Hamilton.
Prices already crept up to the 600k-700k+ range for downtrodden / beat up properties.

A few cases the main and upper floor were completely redone and I was taken a aback at the level of detail they put into them...only to find out that the basement is unfinished and looks like some ghoulish slaughterhouse where one would expect to find the creepy crawlies lurking in the shadows.
A bit frustrating as you will not see any pictures of those basements on the listing lol.

Long story short - anything half decent that is visually appealing seems to be in the 1million+ range.

A couple just bought the starter home next to my daughter, near Gage Park. Paid around $700K. It's a two bedroom story and a half and not tarted up. Shared driveway and tired looking. Newly weds buy and then move a couple years later when the stork lands on the roof. I think it went for $150K a dozen years and three couples ago.

The unfinished basement is a plus IMO. It lets you see what you're getting. It is all too easy to tart up a decaying foundation and flip. A cheap drywall job hides the water leakage and mold until the ink dries on the sales contract.

Before the 1950's basements were where you stored off season goods and home made preserves. Dad's rickety workbench shared space with the washing machine and concrete tubs. Low headroom was the norm. The rec room / livable basement started in the late 50's.

Nobbie in Hamilton means north of Barton and away from the steel mills.

If I was looking to buy I'd go for the untouched original place and use the savings to do the kind of renovations that are important to me.

To get those places you have to think like a real estate agent. Look for tired places with old owners. It sounds ghoulish but follow the obituary columns. Mom or pop dies and the survivor might be thinking of moving to a home. No one is going to put a house on a platter for you.

Hamilton has been a lot friendlier than Toronto but that could be changing as Toronto moves west. On a nice day walk your dog and chat with people and find out who might be interested in selling. Borrow a dog if need be.

 

[shanekingsley]

If I was looking to buy I'd go for the untouched original place and use the savings to do the kind of renovations that are important to me.

To get those places you have to think like a real estate agent. Look for tired places with old owners. It sounds ghoulish but follow the obituary columns. Mom or pop dies and the survivor might be thinking of moving to a home. No one is going to put a house on a platter for you.

Good point.
We bought our home in 2013 from two siblings whose Mom had just passed away. The kids grew up in this house, moved out, got married etc., but Mom stayed in the house until she passed. The kids wanted a quick sale since they held sentimental attachments to the house and didn't want to corrupt those feelings. They were willing to accept the first offer that came to the house within reason of their asking. We bid $1k under asking and got it immediately - no conditions.

The house was 40 years old and all original except for regular maintenance. Aesthetically, it was very dated, but all well maintained.

We then lived in the house for 5 years to get a really good feel for it, then decided to do our reno's and hopefully will stay here for another 15-20 years.

 

[backmarkerducati]

Good point.
We bought our home in 2013 from two siblings whose Mom had just passed away. The kids grew up in this house, moved out, got married etc., but Mom stayed in the house until she passed. The kids wanted a quick sale since they held sentimental attachments to the house and didn't want to corrupt those feelings. They were willing to accept the first offer that came to the house within reason of their asking. We bid $1k under asking and got it immediately - no conditions.

The house was 40 years old and all original except for regular maintenance. Aesthetically, it was very dated, but all well maintained.

We then lived in the house for 5 years to get a really good feel for it, then decided to do our reno's and hopefully will stay here for another 15-20 years.

Right before buying our current home we bid on a similar scenario. Multiple siblings, owner had either passed or was in care. Pretty much all original ~1950s house. We bid 95% of asking, the counter was simply "not enough money". We walked, it was 2008, I kept an eye on it, sold six months later for almost 100K less then we offered.

I truly worked out for the best as we got a better home in a better area for pretty much the same money.