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Coronavirus

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GreyGhost said:
Cormac Mac Sweeney tweeted this image purported from Public Health Agency of Canada. Interesting graphic but almost useless without further information. Obviously blue line is much better than grey, but how much decrease in our current rate of contact is required? Do we need to lock the doors and not go out, go back to april where one person goes to a store once a week and that is it, stop having any social visits, shut down schools, etc. etc?

The link goes to an article published in April. That article has similar graphs but obviously they only have data from April and before. I have no idea where the current image was sourced.

www.680news.com

New model shows COVID-19 accelerating at alarming rate in Ontario

A new model released by the Public Health Agency of Canada shows how young people make up most of the provinces COVID-19 cases to date.
www.680news.com www.680news.com

EiiFDGTXsAAggnf

www.medrxiv.org

Estimating the impact of COVID-19 control measures using a Bayesian model of physical distancing

Extensive physical distancing measures are currently the primary intervention against coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) worldwide. It is therefore urgent to estimate the impact such measures are having. We introduce a Bayesian epidemiological model in which a proportion of individuals are...
www.medrxiv.org www.medrxiv.org
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I had that discussion with the Mrs. this weekend and said yes, Fewer outings.

We always wore masks and distanced but were seeing more people being casual about it, paying lip service at best. People are following rules that they don't understand and get it wrong.

People don't understand bubbles. They think they can leave one and join another.
 
Baggsy said:
I'm not sure what systems like the TTC are going to do. They've already published a policy, and they may already be on the other side of this to @Zoodles95 . They're going to support the union, whichever way it's wind blows. The same will go for city council. If the union doesn't want masks there won't be masks. Think about enforcement; if a 95 pound driver, has a 275 pound maskless person board, how are they going to get them off? If it happens all over the city, will the police come? Will they have to put bouncers on the buses? That's why earlier I said you have to talk reasonably to people and convince them to wear masks, rather than calling them names etc. and having them entrench their views of you.
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We already have zero tolerence policies. No shirt or shoes? Bus does not move. Try bringing a jerry can with fuel on the bus or a gas powered device with fuel on the bus and the bus does not move.

My mother has terminal COPD and she was wearing a mask intil recently until one of her specialists essentially ordered her to wear a face shield. This is a pandemic; why a stricter policy has not been implemented at the transit property is beyond me.

We will not do a wildcat strike. Lots of work refusals have been done over this and the Ministry Of Labor has okayed the regional policies and conditions so in a way these conditions are condoned by a Provincial Agency.

It is what it is. We have had several drivers off sick but none dead yet. A father and brother in law of some drivers have died of Covid but none of my coworkers. Only one driver had Covid really bad and he was off a couple of months. He is back now but has been greatly impacted by Covid. He is just "off". It is like he aged 10 years on 2 months. Kind of shuffles when he walks and he is always out of breath. Hopefully these issues are not permanent.

I love my.job. i do not want to go back to OTR trucking and my days of being national sales manager is a good decade in the rear view mirror. I hope to drive a transit bus at least another 15 to 17 years; but I want to enjoy my years with my wife as long as I can.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
 
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@Zoodles95 I feel your pain...I know a lot of people here have a hate on for teachers, but I'm in the same boat...I LOVE my job and I'm so happy to be back in the classroom with my kiddos, HOWEVER, public health keeps changing the school guidelines and it's really hard to keep 20 6 & 7 year olds from congregating together at recess...not so hard in the classroom while I'm with them, but outside, it's a challenge...

I have banking/finance and trucking/logistics experience as well, but that's going back to the 90s and early 2000s...been teaching since 2005 so most employers (other than another school board) would see those skills as being stale dated...as a few others have said, teaching online was horrible, so hopefully we don't have to close schools again...

stay safe and keep healthy...
 
ifiddles said:
@Zoodles95 I feel your pain...I know a lot of people here have a hate on for teachers, but I'm in the same boat...I LOVE my job and I'm so happy to be back in the classroom with my kiddos, HOWEVER, public health keeps changing the school guidelines and it's really hard to keep 20 6 & 7 year olds from congregating together at recess...not so hard in the classroom while I'm with them, but outside, it's a challenge...

I have banking/finance and trucking/logistics experience as well, but that's going back to the 90s and early 2000s...been teaching since 2005 so most employers (other than another school board) would see those skills as being stale dated...as a few others have said, teaching online was horrible, so hopefully we don't have to close schools again...

stay safe and keep healthy...
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I have a hate for most of the activity of the teachers union and many useless wanker teachers that are completely detached from reality but there are some absolutely amazing teachers that the kids are lucky to have in their lives. The problem is the system is setup to protect the wankers while not acknowledging and rewarding the special teachers.
 
so for all you guys who really understand the science behind virus' and transmission including particle size etc., do you know or think that air purifiers could help in a classroom setting...I've searched on the internet and some sites say yes, others no...I'm not that well versed in the science behind this virus to really know...any thoughts?
 
ifiddles said:
so for all you guys who really understand the science behind virus' and transmission including particle size etc., do you know or think that air purifiers could help in a classroom setting...I've searched on the internet and some sites say yes, others no...I'm not that well versed in the science behind this virus to really know...any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Without doing a ton of research, my personal opinion is the average HEPA filter in a classroom will do f all if you have an infected person in that classroom. It is moving a relatively small amount of air. Picking some reasonable numbers (links below), filter moves 100 cfm, 750 sq ft (7500 cu ft @ 10' ceiling) that gives 0.8 ach (air changes per hour). The vast majority of that air will probably be recirculating around the unit and the far corner of the class may have air that only gets filtered once a day. For a transient spreader (eg janitor cleaning after hours) that may help. For a spreader in the classroom for many hours, I just don't see how it would help. You have captured some of the virus but a very high percentage will get breathed in or land on people or surfaces long before it makes it to the filter. A bigger filter with a much higher flow rate (easy to get portable industrial hepa at 1000+cfm) improves things but gets too loud for a classroom.

FWIW, from what I've seen, dentist offices are running multiple HEPA filters in each treament room. Eyeball estimate says something like 400 cfm in 1500 cu ft for ~15 ach. That may help filter a room in the gap between patients.

www.energystar.gov

Product Finder — ENERGY STAR Certified Room Air Cleaners

Compare ENERGY STAR Certified Room Air Cleaners, find rebates, and learn more.
www.energystar.gov www.energystar.gov
 
This is my opinion but if you can’t really feel the air moving (as if you’re outside in a really small breeze) then nothing much is working to stop droplets settling on surfaces. Our air handling units in the labs pull so much air out that it’s hard to open the main doors to exterior corridors and they aren’t biological containment labs either and they aren’t doing that much to affect large droplets. Those high level biological containment labs shift a ton of air and work at negative pressures in case of a breach. HEPA is filtering out light tiny particles but the droplets that contain the virus are heavier and need a bit more energy to get them to move from their trajectory.

To be fair though, there’s honestly no real commercial environments where you’d get that kind of airflow, perhaps some refrigeration units. Imagine taking a spray bottle and trying to spray a surface but the droplets are moved by the air, that’s the only way you’d prevent them settling. That's why we are wearing masks!
 
jc100 said:
This is my opinion but if you can’t really feel the air moving (as if you’re outside in a really small breeze) then nothing much is working to stop droplets settling on surfaces. Our air handling units in the labs pull so much air out that it’s hard to open the main doors to exterior corridors and they aren’t biological containment labs either and they aren’t doing that much to affect large droplets. Those high level biological containment labs shift a ton of air and work at negative pressures in case of a breach. HEPA is filtering out light tiny particles but the droplets that contain the virus are heavier and need a bit more energy to get them to move from their trajectory.

To be fair though, there’s honestly no real commercial environments where you’d get that kind of airflow, perhaps some refrigeration units. Imagine taking a spray bottle and trying to spray a surface but the droplets are moved by the air, that’s the only way you’d prevent them settling. That's why we are wearing masks!
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Yeah, the cheapest effective approach is probably something like a wall of fans so you had a known air direction and made sure people stayed beside each other and not downstream. When droplets got to the opposite side, it would be really hard for them to turn and recirculate. Floor would still get covered and it would be loud and uncomfortable for a class.
 
GreyGhost said:
Without doing a ton of research, my personal opinion is the average HEPA filter in a classroom will do f all if you have an infected person in that classroom. It is moving a relatively small amount of air. Picking some reasonable numbers (links below), filter moves 100 cfm, 750 sq ft (7500 cu ft @ 10' ceiling) that gives 0.8 ach (air changes per hour). The vast majority of that air will probably be recirculating around the unit and the far corner of the class may have air that only gets filtered once a day. For a transient spreader (eg janitor cleaning after hours) that may help. For a spreader in the classroom for many hours, I just don't see how it would help. You have captured some of the virus but a very high percentage will get breathed in or land on people or surfaces long before it makes it to the filter. A bigger filter with a much higher flow rate (easy to get portable industrial hepa at 1000+cfm) improves things but gets too loud for a classroom.

FWIW, from what I've seen, dentist offices are running multiple HEPA filters in each treament room. Eyeball estimate says something like 400 cfm in 1500 cu ft for ~15 ach. That may help filter a room in the gap between patients.

www.energystar.gov

Product Finder — ENERGY STAR Certified Room Air Cleaners

Compare ENERGY STAR Certified Room Air Cleaners, find rebates, and learn more.
www.energystar.gov www.energystar.gov
Click to expand...

I'm not going to challenge your numbers and basically agree. However there is the straw that brakes the camel's back comparison so if I had a choice between a filtered room and non filtered I would go for the filters. I think there would be more cost effective measures which means more measures could be implemented.

If you think about how long it takes for a fan to clear the air in a bathroom after someone drops a bomb a small ventilation system isn't all that great.
 
GreyGhost said:
I have a hate for most of the activity of the teachers union and many useless wanker teachers that are completely detached from reality but there are some absolutely amazing teachers that the kids are lucky to have in their lives. The problem is the system is setup to protect the wankers while not acknowledging and rewarding the special teachers.
Click to expand...

I know a part time professor that has written a novel that basically is a whinefest about her not getting tenure. People want tenure for job security but can't get it because it protects those with it. I'm in so you can close the door.
 
One possible solution would be to start the school year in the Spring and run it until the Fall with the classroom windows open.
 
So into the legalities. My S-I-L wants to fly up from the USA, supposedly to settle a will issue ans see the family home one last time. If, when she arrives, she is let in she rents a car and drives to a B&B where she stays for 14 days. Then she adds the precaution of a test and a few more days in isolation.

Since she is supposed to go directly from the AP to the B&B she can't stop for groceries. We live near the AP and could have a box ready for her to do a driveway pick up. NO contact will be made. She phones when she's at the curb and we put the box out, go back inside and she puts it in her trunk. Is this legal?

Not that I care because we aren't in quarantine.

TBH I think she's just on an ego break but as long as it doesn't cost us money or health I don't really care.

IMO her personal bubble only exists between her ears.
 
nobbie48 said:
So into the legalities. My S-I-L wants to fly up from the USA, supposedly to settle a will issue ans see the family home one last time. If, when she arrives, she is let in she rents a car and drives to a B&B where she stays for 14 days. Then she adds the precaution of a test and a few more days in isolation.

Since she is supposed to go directly from the AP to the B&B she can't stop for groceries. We live near the AP and could have a box ready for her to do a driveway pick up. NO contact will be made. She phones when she's at the curb and we put the box out, go back inside and she puts it in her trunk. Is this legal?

Not that I care because we aren't in quarantine.

TBH I think she's just on an ego break but as long as it doesn't cost us money or health I don't really care.

IMO her personal bubble only exists between her ears.
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In the early days when people were repatriating, they were leaving the car box in the car for the arriving passenger. Not sure if the rental company will play along with that or not. A 14 day car rental that never moves is expensive, isn't there a chauffeur option (limo with divider up?)?

As far as the legality of the plan, it sounds clean to me. That is limiting contact as much as possible. I have no idea on the logistics of a covid test without ohip. Current system has you login with your healthcard number to see results. After 14 days in isolation with no symptoms, I doubt it adds much useful information.
 
Brian P said:
This virus will preferentially attack the stupid people.

www.nbcnews.com

Ex-Nashville council member, a coronavirus skeptic, dies from Covid-19

Tony Tenpenny had been in the hospital for more than a month before succumbing to the deadly virus he questioned.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
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Strange but true, the stupid are far more likely to catch the virus as they are more likely to put themselves in the virus' path.

Too dumb to understand the facts, to dumb to care -- COVID loves the dumbest among us.
 
GreyGhost said:
In the early days when people were repatriating, they were leaving the car box in the car for the arriving passenger. Not sure if the rental company will play along with that or not. A 14 day car rental that never moves is expensive, isn't there a chauffeur option (limo with divider up?)?

As far as the legality of the plan, it sounds clean to me. That is limiting contact as much as possible. I have no idea on the logistics of a covid test without ohip. Current system has you login with your healthcard number to see results. After 14 days in isolation with no symptoms, I doubt it adds much useful information.
Click to expand...

Good idea on leaving the food box in the car at pick up time. As far as her renting the thing it's her money. She'll need it a couple of weeks later and in case of emergency she has an escape vehicle, legal or not.

She has dual citizenship but her last province of residence would have been Alberta. Again her problem.

The problem with the test is that five minutes afterwards someone could sneeze nearby and negate the whole thing.

She could get turned back at the airport and be sent home. Her excuse to enter has a lot of holes in it. It's a sentimental journey.
 
Mad Mike said:
Strange but true, the stupid are far more likely to catch the virus as they are more likely to put themselves in the virus' path.

Too dumb to understand the facts, to dumb to care -- COVID loves the dumbest among us.
Click to expand...

I've been noticing a lot of feeble older types not wearing masks properly. Masks are a nuisance but installing a ventilator isn't fun either. High risk and low compliance is a bad mix.
 
nobbie48 said:
Good idea on leaving the food box in the car at pick up time. As far as her renting the thing it's her money. She'll need it a couple of weeks later and in case of emergency she has an escape vehicle, legal or not.

She has dual citizenship but her last province of residence would have been Alberta. Again her problem.

The problem with the test is that five minutes afterwards someone could sneeze nearby and negate the whole thing.

She could get turned back at the airport and be sent home. Her excuse to enter has a lot of holes in it. It's a sentimental journey.
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FWIW, I know a Canadian that has driven to the US and back (to see their mom) and has now gone back down. No problems at all at the border. I suspect travelling south is easier than north but if your sister is Canadian, I doubt JT would consider denying her. If she was american, I think it could be a tougher fight. Border agents are federal, they don't give a crap about provinces so I doubt your sisters last residence matters (but she should be damn sure she has an address and reservation for her quarantine plan).
 
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