Clock is ticking as the Gardiner Expressway crumbles

Forum Sponsor
backmarkerducati said:
What we need is someone that can look at a map and strong arm the railways.

We have a wide set of tracks that are directly beside the Gardiner at Strachan that go all the way to the DVP! Build a new Gardiner from Strachan above the railway tracks (can be a tunnel for the tracks OR an elevated roadway) all the way to the DVP. Might be some minor issues at Union and a couple of bridges to deal with but these can be worked out, but we will have to stop the new fancy stuff they are planning at track level there (union).

Problem solved, cheapest possible solution. Ralway will have major issue with anyone doing this but the federal, provincial, and municipal governments need to grow some and set them straight for the better good of the country.
Click to expand...

That's one of the busiest rail lines in north america. Closing the gardiner would have a much smaller impact on the canadian economy.

My vote for the best solution is one side at a time, alternate traffic direction on the other side (i.e. in the morning EB only on the gardiner, WB only in the evening). It would still cause a traffic disaster, but at this point, I think that is unavoidable.
 
GreyGhost said:
That's one of the busiest rail lines in north america. Closing the gardiner would have a much smaller impact on the canadian economy.

My vote for the best solution is one side at a time, alternate traffic direction on the other side (i.e. in the morning EB only on the gardiner, WB only in the evening). It would still cause a traffic disaster, but at this point, I think that is unavoidable.
Click to expand...

The trick would be to do a modular build so it could be done with minimal disruption in rail traffic. Build the sections before hand and put them in at night, building the elevated roadway a section at a time. It can also be done one side at a time to offset the disruption further. No loss of rail capacity is key to this.
 
Another thing, when's that 4th eastbound lane from Jarvis to the DVP going to open again? It's been shut down for a couple of years now and I see no signs of repair work being done.
 
ZX600 said:
lol Yea the Gardiner problem is only a Mayor ford problem

It's amazing how people only read or regurgitate the parts that are convenient to the argument they are trying to make
Click to expand...

It is amazing how people don't read isn't it. I never once said that this is Rob Fords fault. I stated the current Mayor and City council. They are the current ones in power that have done nothing for 2 years. In no way am I excusing the previous administrations but they can't do anything now. The Mayor and council are the ones going to be making current choices and deciding the direction. More of doing nothing is not something to defend. Because a person isn't a Rob Ford fan doesn't mean they are a David Miller or Mel Lastman fan either.

The only thing I faulted the Ford's for was the parrotting of this 'war against the car' nonsense. It is simply not true there is no war against the car. There is a war against congestion which is a massive problem in Toronto.
 
There will never be a good solution implemented. Toronto has never done anything well and never will.
 
The most likely outcome is that only bare-minimum maintenance will be done, until something bad enough happens that they have to shut it down.

At that point, get ready for congestion charges of the magnitude that London UK charges - with the intent of getting people to take public transit. 'Course, the subway has capacity issues of its own.

Most European cities have created car-free downtown areas, and I can see it happening here.

I already take the subway most of the time if I have to go downtown, because traffic and parking are too much hassle.
 
Brian P said:
The most likely outcome is that only bare-minimum maintenance will be done, until something bad enough happens that they have to shut it down.

At that point, get ready for congestion charges of the magnitude that London UK charges - with the intent of getting people to take public transit. 'Course, the subway has capacity issues of its own.

Most European cities have created car-free downtown areas, and I can see it happening here.

I already take the subway most of the time if I have to go downtown, because traffic and parking are too much hassle.
Click to expand...

If Toronto had HALF the transit system other large cities have (London, New York, Boston, Chicago), I'd fully agree with this. The truth is, they don't and the TTC during rush hour is a great lesson in humans immitating sardines trying to stuff themselves back in the can.
 
Never said it was going to be pleasant :) I've spent a little time in Munich, which has a population somewhat smaller than Toronto, but the train system is enormously more extensive, and the central station is enormous. It would be a challenge for Toronto to do that now ...
 
nfq said:
If Toronto had HALF the transit system other large cities have (London, New York, Boston, Chicago), I'd fully agree with this. The truth is, they don't and the TTC during rush hour is a great lesson in humans immitating sardines trying to stuff themselves back in the can.
Click to expand...

You're thinking of Tokyo, not Toronto.

[video=youtube_share;b0A9-oUoMug]http://youtu.be/b0A9-oUoMug[/video]
 
IIRC Boston's "the big dig" was over $10 billion, and it renders any future expansion to be essentially impossible.

edit: Wiki says the total cost at the end of the day, including interest, is expected to be $22 billion.
 
Last edited:
Brian P said:
IIRC Boston's "the big dig" was over $10 billion, and it renders any future expansion to be essentially impossible.

edit: Wiki says the total cost at the end of the day, including interest, is expected to be $22 billion.
Click to expand...

Boston is a good example of how much tunnelling really costs. Far out of the ballpark Toronto would be able to spend.
 
fixed_it_540.jpg
 
That bridge needs to be torn apart and rebuilt into something...tunnel, a new bridge...whatever but something needs to be done ASAP. Are they waiting until someone dies or what? I drive underneath it to go to work and I'm ******** my pants especially when I take my bike. It's a total grid lock anyways during rush hour. Wouldn't make a difference if they shut it down. It's gridlock everywhere in the vicinity. DVP is another case. 3-5 years from now you better have a full tank of gas because traffic ain't gonna be moving ever!!!
 
And, of course, now, they're blaming all off the 905ers like me who commute into the city for work. We need to shoulder the burden of the costs, by paying a toll. Never mind that the people of Toronto have voted for mayors who would give them circuses instead of bread for the last half a decade, who spent tax money on frivolous crap instead of infrastructure, while also refusing to raise taxes to a level that would support both. It's pretty easy to buy votes, when you're using other people's money to do it.

It's time for this city to realize that it can't just point fingers everywhere else. Suck it up and fix your roads, water system, and sewers dammit!
 
Rob MacLennan said:
And, of course, now, they're blaming all off the 905ers like me who commute into the city for work. We need to shoulder the burden of the costs, by paying a toll. Never mind that the people of Toronto have voted for mayors who would give them circuses instead of bread for the last half a decade, who spent tax money on frivolous crap instead of infrastructure, while also refusing to raise taxes to a level that would support both. It's pretty easy to buy votes, when you're using other people's money to do it.

It's time for this city to realize that it can't just point fingers everywhere else. Suck it up and fix your roads, water system, and sewers dammit!
Click to expand...

Good post. :thumbup:
 
patch the gardner while they start on tunnels. add a toll on the gardner to help pay for the tunnels.
once the tunnels are done leave tolls on both for a couple of years, then replace the gardner.
73 million cars travel it each year, charge $2 per car/per acess with 407 plate scanners (but none of the 407 bs)
you could claim close to 200 mill per year in revenue, as well as lower some traffic.

the gardner rebuild could also be left with less acess points and more of an express route to the dvp to keep the cars passing by downtown moving while lessening the traffic
 
Last edited:
awyala said:
This has been over 30 years in deadlocked discussions. These fools in the council will sit on this until it becomes a major H&S hazard and only that impetus will prompt a rush decision.

A great working example is the road system in Brussels, but that time has passed with this city's idiotic planning department.
There was a chance before all the condos went into build a solution, whether it would have been a parallel road network, then demolish the Gardner without interruption, or to dig and tunnel another TTC subway line, or at the very least force each condo developer to pitch into a pool that would address these concerns, maybe even pitch into underground infrastructure for tunnels since they were digging massive foundations ANYWAYS!

The city missed a huuuuuuuuuuge opportunity for a PPP scheme during the condo boom.

Get ready for a toll folks!
Click to expand...

I think the condos are killing the city. Increasing density in a city bounded by water on one side with nowhere to grow. The increase in condos are increasing traffic. You can't even see the lake for most of the length of the gardiner anymore, and the skyline looks terrible. As much as I'd hate to say it, Toronto is turning into less of a world class city because of all the condos. But I digress.

If they rebuild the gardiner, I'd like to see more lanes with an HOV which includes motorcycles of course. And there should be a barrier, not just painted lines to separate the HOV lanes from regular lanes.
 
barriers wont work, one accident and no way around would cause people to reverse down the highway or wait hours to move.
they also looked into a highway over the water
Forum Sponsor
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom