It's quasi-history through a non-fiction analysis of human evolution and well thought out.
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Church Burnings - Are these Hate Crimes?
- Thread starter Mad Mike
- Start date
It's quasi-history through a non-fiction analysis of human evolution and well thought out.
More information on residential school burials... that doesn't fit the narative
I would think the catholic church would be fighting to get this information out...
But no.
I would think the catholic church would be fighting to get this information out...
But no.
Not really, still a lot of kids buried there.
By not being willing to send the dead kids home for burial. The Church assumes responsibility of their graves. And did a piss poor job at that as well.
Not quite. The church would ask for reimbursement for coffins etc. for a proper burial or transportation costs to return the body to the reserve (knowing that in all likelihood they couldn't pay). Same, but not same same.
I guess we're reading the article differently.
What I am getting from this:
The media reports 751 unmarked graves at a closed residential school.
The populous FREAKS, lots and lots of coverage.
Locals say: (locals that INCLUDE the local indigenous)
HOL UP
That was a marked parish cemetery till the mid 60s that, for a reasons that are disputed, had the headstones removed.
There is documentation as to who is interred where and when, including children from the residential school
People that are alive today have seen these 4 mission registers and the band HAS possession of one of them (sneaky devils!), the other three are held by the Catholic church
It seems to me the Catholic church could put out SOME of the fire under their arses by releasing those records. At least to ME, it would indemnify themselves of a ton of badness, NOT ALL but a lot IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE.
I'm not gonna hang the "local" residential school for not returning dead kids to their parents.
I put that firmly in the lap of the government of the time, that was signing the cheques
And IN THIS CASE it seems the "church" did all they could with the dead kids (how they got dead kids and how many dead kids and how they got so MANY dead kids, is a different discussion) and they have documentation to this effect... that they won't release......
What I am getting from this:
The media reports 751 unmarked graves at a closed residential school.
The populous FREAKS, lots and lots of coverage.
Locals say: (locals that INCLUDE the local indigenous)
HOL UP
That was a marked parish cemetery till the mid 60s that, for a reasons that are disputed, had the headstones removed.
There is documentation as to who is interred where and when, including children from the residential school
People that are alive today have seen these 4 mission registers and the band HAS possession of one of them (sneaky devils!), the other three are held by the Catholic church
It seems to me the Catholic church could put out SOME of the fire under their arses by releasing those records. At least to ME, it would indemnify themselves of a ton of badness, NOT ALL but a lot IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE.
I'm not gonna hang the "local" residential school for not returning dead kids to their parents.
I put that firmly in the lap of the government of the time, that was signing the cheques
And IN THIS CASE it seems the "church" did all they could with the dead kids (how they got dead kids and how many dead kids and how they got so MANY dead kids, is a different discussion) and they have documentation to this effect... that they won't release......
They took the responsibility for the kids. It was their responsibility to return them.
It is the moral responsibility for anyone with kids in their care to see to them. Not just dispose of them once government funding is cut because the child is no longer living.
Don't put words into my mouth. I didn't say it wasn't their responsibility. I said your claim that they weren't willing to return the deceased children was wrong.
The kids were taken for free as far as the parents were concerned to go to the schools. They were also returned for free during what ever breaks they were allotted.
TRC Website - NCTR
The TRC website has been archived using the Wayback Machine software. You can view the archived version by clicking here. The Wayback Machine is an archive system for websites. The archived TRC website will work like a normal website, however, it is not being maintained with current information...
www.trc.ca
Followed by;
Followed by;
Followed by;
Followed by;
I don't know, maybe I'm living in a fantasy world. Everyone else is right. I doubt that though. Plenty of historic evidence of a lack of care in the childern's lives and deaths at residential schools for anyone willing to actually learn some history and not just try and white wash history.
That document by the way has a list of schools. For all those who act like it's ancient history. Schools that were shut down the last 50 years, so their students are still very much alive, include;
- St. Mary’s, Blood, Immaculate Conception Roman Catholic
- St. Paul’s, Blood Anglican
- Ermineskin Roman Catholic
- Anahim Lake Non-denominational
- Blue Quills, Saddle Lake, Sacred Heart Roman Catholic
- Cranbrook, St. Eugene’s, Kootenay Roman Catholic
- Lejac, Fraser Lake Roman Catholic
- Kamloops Roman Catholic
- Kuper Island Roman Catholic
- Sechelt Roman Catholic
- Lower Post Roman Catholic
- Cariboo, St. Joseph’s, Williams Lake Roman Catholic
- Christie, Clayoquot, Kakawis Roman Catholic
- St. Mary’s, Mission Roman Catholic
- Birtle Presbyterian
- Brandon Methodist, United Church after 1925 (1929?), Roman Catholic (1970–1972)
- Churchill Vocational Centre Non-denominational
- McKay Anglican
- Clearwater, Guy Hill, Clearwater Lake Roman Catholic
- Assiniboia Roman Catholic
- Portage la Prairie Presbyterian, later United Church
- Sandy Bay Roman Catholic
- Fort Franklin Hostel Non-denominational
- Fleming Hall Anglican
- Bompas Hall Anglican
- Lapointe Hall Roman Catholic
- Lapointe Hall, Deh Cho Hall Roman Catholic/Non-denominational
- Breynat Hall Roman Catholic
- Grandin College Roman Catholic
- Grollier Hall Roman Catholic
- Stringer Hall Anglican
- Akaitcho Hall Non-denominational
- Federal Hostel at Cambridge Bay Non-denominational
- Federal Hostel at Frobisher Bay (Ukkivik) Frobisher Bay Non-denominational
- Federal Hostel at Pond Inlet/Mittimatalik Non-denominational
- Mohawk Institute Anglican
- Cristal Lake Northern Light Gospel Mission
- St. Anne’s, Fort Albany Roman Catholic
- Fort Frances, St. Margaret’s Roman Catholic
- St. Mary’s, Kenora Roman Catholic
- Cecilia Jerey, Kenora, Shoal Lake Presbyterian, United Church briey, Presbyterian
- Bishop Horden Hall, Moose Fort, Moose Factory Anglican
- Poplar Hill Development School Northern Light Gospel Mission
- Shingwauk Home Anglican
- Pelican Lake, Pelican Falls Anglican
- Stirland Lake, Wahbon Bay Academy Northern Light Gospel Mission
- Amos, Amos Student Residence, St-Marc Residence, St-Marc-de-Figuery Roman Catholic
- Fort George, St. Phillip’s Anglican
- Fort George, St. Joseph’s Mission, Residence Couture, Sainte-Thérèse-de-l’Enfant-Jésus Roman Catholic
- Fort George Hostels Non-denominational
- Federal Hostel at Great Whale River, Postede-la-Baleine, Kuujjuaraapik Non-denominational
- La Tuque Anglican
- Mistassini Hostels Non-denominational
- Pointe Bleue Roman Catholic
- Sept-Îles, Seven Islands, Notre Dame, Maliotenam Roman Catholic
- Beauval, Lac la Plonge, Île-à-la-Crosse Roman Catholic
- St. Michael’s, Duck Lake Roman Catholic
- Gordon’s, Punnichy Anglican
- Marieval, Cowessess, Crooked Lake Roman Catholic
- Lebret, Qu’Appelle, St. Paul’s, Whitecalf Roman Catholic
- Lestock, Muscowequan, Muskowekwan, Touchwood Roman Catholic
- Prince Albert, St. Alban’s, All Saints, St. Barnabas, Lac La Ronge Anglican
- Coudert Hall Roman Catholic
- Yukon Hall Non-denominational/Protestant
So you support your statement that the church wasn't willing to return dead children by posting a quote saying that they were, provided the expenses were covered............
You take responsibility of the kids, you take responsibility of a proper burial. Schools were obligated to pay for the costs as part of the money given to them by the government. As per the first quote you obviously glossed over.
So the schools tried to offload the costs to the parents instead. But schools didn't stop there to try and skirt their responsibilities for a proper burial with the child's family. It was quite common to get students to dig shallow graves for their classmates as undertaker costs were too "expensive";
And when things got bad, like during the Spanish flu, mass graves were simply easier and cheaper.
None of that alters the fact that they were willing to send the bodies back to the reserves. All you've done is reiterate (ad nauseam) that they were being obtuse about doing so.
Willingness to do it, which they were funded by the government for, and giving lip service by skirting their financial and moral responsibilities are two different things.
What part of it doesn't matter if there was shenanigans, they were willing to send the bodies back don't you understand?
For someone who waltzed in and (somewhat pompously) presented themselves as well educated, you sure make a lot of rudimentary mistakes.
For someone who waltzed in and (somewhat pompously) presented themselves as well educated, you sure make a lot of rudimentary mistakes.
Nothing new... to anyone that actually pays attention to the stories.
It does matter, at minimum it's breach of contract from their responsibilities they agreed to when becoming a residential school. But not only defrauding the government, but also defrauding the parents for money they are responsible to spend, well that under Criminal Code (R.S.C., 1985, c. C-46) Section 301, comes with up to a 14 year jail sentence.
But keep believing whatever you'd like.
Ok, let's try a force restart. Were the churches willing to ship the bodies back to the reservations? It's a simple yes or no answer.
What part is "same old same old"
The part where the un-documented cemetery outside the residential school was actually well documented?
Or the part where what they thought was an un-documented residential school cemetery was actually a well documented parish cemetery that was used by everybody of the parish and peoples beyond for over 120 years?
Or the part where it has been proven the Catholic church has documentation on what was thought to be a residential school cemetery, when they keep saying they don't?
Or the part where the parish priest had a hissy fit and had all the headstones in a parish cemetery removed?
I guess I've been snoozin' then. This is all new to me... and to CBC News.
Can you give us more info on these "nothing new" instances like this... you know... cuz YOU'RE paying attention, and we're not.
It was covered in previous releases and follow ups. Some of the Native reps, that did press releases, made a point of saying these weren' undocumented school burials... most of them anyway.. and that most were known, documented and used by the community and not just the schools.
When the story of the 751 graves broke... They came on the next day to clarify a lot of what you brought up.
I have a lot of free time... too much some times.
For those interested here is some reading.
21 Things You May Not Know About the Indian Act
"Since its creation in 1876, the Indian Act has shaped, controlled, and constrained the lives and opportunities of Indigenous Peoples, and is at the root of many enduring stereotypes. Bob Joseph''s book comes at a key time in the reconciliation process, when awareness from both Indigenous and non-Indigenous communities is at a crescendo. Joseph explains how Indigenous Peoples can step out from under the Indian Act and return to self-government, self-determination, and self-reliance - and why doing so would result in a better country for every Canadian. He dissects the complex issues around truth and reconciliation, and clearly demonstrates why learning about the Indian Act''s cruel, enduring legacy is essential for the country to move toward true reconciliation."
21 Things You May Not Know About the Indian Act
"Since its creation in 1876, the Indian Act has shaped, controlled, and constrained the lives and opportunities of Indigenous Peoples, and is at the root of many enduring stereotypes. Bob Joseph''s book comes at a key time in the reconciliation process, when awareness from both Indigenous and non-Indigenous communities is at a crescendo. Joseph explains how Indigenous Peoples can step out from under the Indian Act and return to self-government, self-determination, and self-reliance - and why doing so would result in a better country for every Canadian. He dissects the complex issues around truth and reconciliation, and clearly demonstrates why learning about the Indian Act''s cruel, enduring legacy is essential for the country to move toward true reconciliation."
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