Canada Post - Huge losses

BigEvilDoer said:
Technically, it's the same strike. We were forced back to work with the gov't mandate ending on the 22nd.

As for being slimy, CP has walked away from the table 3x. Leaving CUPW sitting there for hours on end wondering if CP was coming back. They didn't.

CP has also broken the CBA (was reinstated by the back to work mandate until the 22nd) by rerouting parcels to Purolator - they have been delivering passports etc etc. Over 1100 parcels in my small city in the last 2 days.

CUPW actually gave in to several of their demands with their last proposal, but CP walked away, as noted earlier because they didn't get everything they wanted. They also revoked all of their previous concessions and went back to their first global offer that was offered before the strike.

Now, let's talk weekend parcel delivery. All for it. Go ahead. Use casuals. CUPW removed the overtime demand as long as casuals etc were given assignments to do it. CP demanded a new sub-class of worker - non union, no benefits etc. Minimum wage. You know that's never going to fly. Use the legions of casuals who are desperate for work --- CP has lamented that they don't understand why so many casuals quit. CP spends $10k on training per casual. Some don't get a shift for months on end - how is this a sustainable model? Toss them a bone and maybe they'll stick around.

CP wants a 55-60% reduction in full time workers. Every other day deliver is 50% of letter carriers out the door, then with the conversion to CMB, there's another 10-20% gone.

Of course CUPW is going to fight that.
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According to the CUPW.. as of last week when CP walked away.. CUPW was still insisting on using the existing language in the contract for weekend deliveries.. existing language is double time.
CUPW's submission to the industrial inquiry commission was focused on using full time employees at double time on weekends. They did suggest moving full timers work week so they'd work sat and/or sun and take a weekday off.. which is.. or was.. the obvious solution.. but then left in the over time demand.
 
As expected, union brass rejected latest CP offer. CP previously denied an extension. CP wants the strike. Imo, they believe that gets them to public purse cash influx faster. There is no way these two come to an agreement even if there is a two week extension. It is just delaying the inevitable. Sadly workers are going to take a financial beating.
 
sburns said:
I feel CP will just become like CBC, with the gov giving them money every year. Too many cooks in the pot for any realistic change.
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If the money keeps coming…there is no incentive or need for change.

Turn off the taps, watch the pain.
 
www.cupw.ca

CUPW Receives Global Offers

Today, May 21, our negotiation committees received global offers from Canada Post for both the Urban Postal Operation (UPO) and the Rural and Suburban Mail Carriers (RSMCs) bargaining units. The Negotiators are currently reviewing and analyzing the offers’ contents. We will provide a more...
www.cupw.ca www.cupw.ca
The union is still going on about full time workers making overtime pay for the weekend deliveries.
 
mimico_polak said:
If the money keeps coming…there is no incentive or need for change.

Turn off the taps, watch the pain.
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Very much how gov works...
Money could come with strings, but it won't
They could literally remove 1 or 2 layers of management, with little consequence, but they won't
So yeah I doubt anything will change.
 
GreyGhost said:
As expected, union brass rejected latest CP offer. CP previously denied an extension. CP wants the strike. Imo, they believe that gets them to public purse cash influx faster. There is no way these two come to an agreement even if there is a two week extension. It is just delaying the inevitable. Sadly workers are going to take a financial beating.
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Genuine question... did you read the actual offer and more importantly, did you understand it?

Dymamic routing - it's something that CP is refusing to budge on. Basically, they want to adjust route lengths on a daily basis. If it's a light day, you may end up walking 30km, and people at the bottom of the seniority get bumped and not called into work. Then, CP admits THAT THEY DON'T HAVE THE SOFTWARE OR MACHINE CAPABILITIES TO DO THIS. Long story short, they've got a pipe dream they don't want to give up on, even though there's no solution available.

Flyers. They want to remove paying us for flyer delivery. Right now, we get 1.2 CENTS per flyer for a regular size, and I think it's 2 cents (I'd have to look it up) for something like a Canadian Tire flyer. CP wants to remove all of those payments and keep 100% of the profit. They charge 18 cents for a regular flyer - we don't even get 10% of that to collate and then deliver.

Routes are designed to be 1.75 hours per section. Quite a few routes in my depot are completely screwed -- to deliver flyers on an Orange day (3 day cycle, Orange / Pink / Blue) on route 23 takes 3.5 hours. On Route 15 it takes 3 hours. On route 39 it takes 3.25 hours. If there's a normal amount of mail, you're forced into overtime, which CP wants to eliminate.

My depot also has about 60% of the foot routes getting an extra line on their pay stubs - "Over Assessed Route". Basically, CP is admitting they screwed up with the route building and need to pay us more to make up for it.

Load levelling is the next thing - if 1 route is heavy, and another is a bit lighter, they want to rebalance the load. I tend to skip my breaks and take them at the end of the day so I get to go home earlier. I absolutely bust my ass out there - I'm classified as a "runner". Very fast on the street. If I get back earlier due to my work ethic and skipping breaks, they want to be able to send me out again and deliver more. I get punished with MORE delivery and more KM for no more pay.

Does that sound right to you?
 
BigEvilDoer said:
Genuine question... did you read the actual offer and more importantly, did you understand it?

Dymamic routing - it's something that CP is refusing to budge on. Basically, they want to adjust route lengths on a daily basis. If it's a light day, you may end up walking 30km, and people at the bottom of the seniority get bumped and not called into work. Then, CP admits THAT THEY DON'T HAVE THE SOFTWARE OR MACHINE CAPABILITIES TO DO THIS. Long story short, they've got a pipe dream they don't want to give up on, even though there's no solution available.

Flyers. They want to remove paying us for flyer delivery. Right now, we get 1.2 CENTS per flyer for a regular size, and I think it's 2 cents (I'd have to look it up) for something like a Canadian Tire flyer. CP wants to remove all of those payments and keep 100% of the profit. They charge 18 cents for a regular flyer - we don't even get 10% of that to collate and then deliver.

Routes are designed to be 1.75 hours per section. Quite a few routes in my depot are completely screwed -- to deliver flyers on an Orange day (3 day cycle, Orange / Pink / Blue) on route 23 takes 3.5 hours. On Route 15 it takes 3 hours. On route 39 it takes 3.25 hours. If there's a normal amount of mail, you're forced into overtime, which CP wants to eliminate.

My depot also has about 60% of the foot routes getting an extra line on their pay stubs - "Over Assessed Route". Basically, CP is admitting they screwed up with the route building and need to pay us more to make up for it.

Load levelling is the next thing - if 1 route is heavy, and another is a bit lighter, they want to rebalance the load. I tend to skip my breaks and take them at the end of the day so I get to go home earlier. I absolutely bust my ass out there - I'm classified as a "runner". Very fast on the street. If I get back earlier due to my work ethic and skipping breaks, they want to be able to send me out again and deliver more. I get punished with MORE delivery and more KM for no more pay.

Does that sound right to you?
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I wasn't judging the unions position. I was expecting them to reject it as there are structural problems at CP that can't be solved through CUPW negotiation. The biggest problem is CP is incompetent and needs a grenade and a reset. CUPW has no ability to fix that.

EDIT:
As for the breaks being skipped, that's a complicated situation. I fully agree with your method and I hate stopping when I'm in a rhythm. If I get my work done, when shouldn't matter. Unfortunately the break crap is written in to H&S legislation and union contracts. Those don't allow for the flexibility we want. If you get hurt at work, they will check if you took the required break, find out you didn't and use that to crap on your case.
 
GreyGhost said:
EDIT:
As for the breaks being skipped, that's a complicated situation. I fully agree with your method and I hate stopping when I'm in a rhythm. If I get my work done, when shouldn't matter. Unfortunately the break crap is written in to H&S legislation and union contracts. Those don't allow for the flexibility we want. If you get hurt at work, they will check if you took the required break, find out you didn't and use that to crap on your case.
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a half hour unpaid break for every 5 hours is all that's required by law. AFAIK.. It's fine to make an agreement with an employee that they can take their break/lunch at the end of an 8 hour day so they can leave early.
Union contracts will have their own set of rules.
 
BigEvilDoer said:
Genuine question... did you read the actual offer and more importantly, did you understand it?

Dymamic routing - it's something that CP is refusing to budge on. Basically, they want to adjust route lengths on a daily basis. If it's a light day, you may end up walking 30km, and people at the bottom of the seniority get bumped and not called into work. Then, CP admits THAT THEY DON'T HAVE THE SOFTWARE OR MACHINE CAPABILITIES TO DO THIS. Long story short, they've got a pipe dream they don't want to give up on, even though there's no solution available.

Flyers. They want to remove paying us for flyer delivery. Right now, we get 1.2 CENTS per flyer for a regular size, and I think it's 2 cents (I'd have to look it up) for something like a Canadian Tire flyer. CP wants to remove all of those payments and keep 100% of the profit. They charge 18 cents for a regular flyer - we don't even get 10% of that to collate and then deliver.

Routes are designed to be 1.75 hours per section. Quite a few routes in my depot are completely screwed -- to deliver flyers on an Orange day (3 day cycle, Orange / Pink / Blue) on route 23 takes 3.5 hours. On Route 15 it takes 3 hours. On route 39 it takes 3.25 hours. If there's a normal amount of mail, you're forced into overtime, which CP wants to eliminate.

My depot also has about 60% of the foot routes getting an extra line on their pay stubs - "Over Assessed Route". Basically, CP is admitting they screwed up with the route building and need to pay us more to make up for it.

Load levelling is the next thing - if 1 route is heavy, and another is a bit lighter, they want to rebalance the load. I tend to skip my breaks and take them at the end of the day so I get to go home earlier. I absolutely bust my ass out there - I'm classified as a "runner". Very fast on the street. If I get back earlier due to my work ethic and skipping breaks, they want to be able to send me out again and deliver more. I get punished with MORE delivery and more KM for no more pay.

Does that sound right to you?
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Unions protect some.. but imo they also hinder the exceptional employees. Folks that should get promotions.. don't because of seniority.
If CP starts laying off people.. how many good workers will be shown the door.. while deadwood gets to stay?
 
raginduck said:
Unions protect some.. but imo they also hinder the exceptional employees. Folks that should get promotions.. don't because of seniority.
If CP starts laying off people.. how many good workers will be shown the door.. while deadwood gets to stay?
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In my experience, within unions seniority and exceptional employees are often inversely correlated. You survive by falling in line and doing the bare minimum mandated by the CBA. Those that strive to do better are told to stop making their seniors look bad.

EDIT:
A friend started work at a union shop. By the end of their first week, they were able to properly and safely complete the required days work within two hours (job was to inspect x widgets and test y widgets per shift). They were told in no uncertain terms by union rep that they had to fall in line or they would be pushed out. That company went bankrupt a few years later and now nobody has jobs.
 
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I just saw that report , few companies could weather a loss of that category and still exist . And it’s not like the years before twenty twenty four did not see similar dunk tank incidents . If that is not enough ammo to force a rethink ( by some other management group outside CP) I can’t think what is .


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PrivatePilot said:
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Not all unions are like this. See my earlier comments. Even the CAW/Unifor offered concessions to GM (of all places) in the past to maintain and regain production. Not every union is blind and greedy.
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They start out like CUPW. CAW death marched a ton of Ontario factories before figuring out cooperation was the only option. PSUs have always enjoyed protections that private sector unions do not - can’t move or close govt services, so the employer will never let the hostage die.
PrivatePilot said:
I understand the whole "Canadian passports must travel by Canada Post only" thing, but it's time they damn well pivot when it becomes necessary vs leaving people out in the cold, ruining vacations or travel plans.
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Agreed. Regulatory protection that PSUs enjoy should be removed in every govt sector.
 
Jeez I hope this doesn’t affect my daughters passport…we’re due to pick it up on Monday….
 
mimico_polak said:
Jeez I hope this doesn’t affect my daughters passport…we’re due to pick it up on Monday….
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right now the union is only refusing OT.
 
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