Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle? | Page 125 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

GagguP

Well-known member
I’ve seen Costco’s price have a $0.20+ spread between other stations out here at times, so the savings can be very significant. Only in the evenings does the spread narrow to maybe 3-5¢
What's up with that? Gas stations lowering their prices in the evenings, how is it that they sell all day at 1.25 and in the evening drop the price 10c, is it all just to get volume sales?
 

PrivatePilot

Ironus Butticus
Site Supporter
What's up with that? Gas stations lowering their prices in the evenings, how is it that they sell all day at 1.25 and in the evening drop the price 10c, is it all just to get volume sales?
Because they can, and some people don’t pay attention to gas prices and just pump when their car is on E and they’re in a rush, which is often in the AM.

And many people are savvy, think ahead a little, and wait until the evenings when they know there’s increased competition and better prices, especially If there’s a Costco nearby that they are forced to compete with in the evenings when people have more time on their hands.

Costco doesn’t subscribe to this price jacking nonsense, so when other gas stations jack up their price 30¢ at midnight the spread can be super high in the mornings.
 

raginduck

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Who lines up to save $2 bucks?
They're not saving anything, and might be spending more.. If they're going out of their way and lining up to save a few cents a litre.
Starting up the vehicle, driving out of your way and idling in some line up for how long... dumb.
 

SunnY S

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Price of gas may rise, but cars are getting more and more efficient.

Civics and Elantras easily achieve 40+ mpg highway. That was unheard of not that long ago.

The new 2019 Insight is the least goofiest looking compact hybrid on the market and gets 55mpg.

Until Electric cars truly take over we are still in good shape for now with ICE. Even if gas prices still rise.

I also predict when Electric cars do take off the price of ICE cars will drop significantly which will further still make them a compelling value.
 

PrivatePilot

Ironus Butticus
Site Supporter
They're not saving anything, and might be spending more.. If they're going out of their way and lining up to save a few cents a litre.
At a few cents difference, especially when at most I'm pumping around 32L of gas now in either of our Volts, I won't bother.

But at 20c difference, yeah, I'll lineup at Costco for the 10 minutes it might take to get a pump - even on 30L of gas that's $6 saved.

The problem is, most people are blissfully clueless about how much gas their car even uses - ask the average driver their L/100KM and many will give you a blank stare. Many couldn't even tell you how many KM they can get on a tank - they just drive until it's on E, and pump. They don't even understand that driving 25KM return (out of their way to a Costco, for example) on a car that burns 10L/100KM is costing them $3.25 in gas at todays prices. If they're pumping 50L and saving even 10C/L versus a closer gas station, they're only saving $5, for a net savings of a mere $1.75.

A smaller tank, or a longer distance, and that "saving" can be wiped to nearly zero...or a loss.

But again, some car drivers can't even open their own hood, much less calculate this sort of stuff.
 
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Mad Mike

Well-known member
At a few cents difference, especially when at most I'm pumping around 32L of gas now in either of our Volts, I won't bother.

But at 20c difference, yeah, I'll lineup at Costco for the 10 minutes it might take to get a pump - even on 30L of gas that's $6 saved.

The problem is, most people are blissfully clueless about how much gas their car even uses - ask the average driver their L/100KM and many will give you a blank stare. Many couldn't even tell you how many KM they can get on a tank - they just drive until it's on E, and pump. They don't even understand that driving 25KM return (out of their way to a Costco, for example) on a car that burns 10L/100KM is costing them $3.25 in gas at todays prices. If they're pumping 50L and saving even 10C/L versus a closer gas station, they're only saving $5, for a net savings of a mere $1.75.

A smaller tank, or a longer distance, and that "saving" can be wiped to nearly zero...or a loss.

But again, some car drivers can't even open their own hood, much less calculate this sort of stuff.
Gas is cheap, that's why nobody cares.

When I started driving, min wage was $2.25/hr and gas cost $0.25/l. A Dodge 1/2 ton used 23l to go 100KM. That means a min wage earner would work for 2.5hrs to buy enough gas to drive 100km.

Today, min wage is $14, and gas costs 1.25/l. A newer Dodge 1/2 ton uses 16l to go 100km, so a min wage earner works for 1.4hrs to buy enough gas to drive 100km.
 

caboose56

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Price of gas may rise, but cars are getting more and more efficient.

Civics and Elantras easily achieve 40+ mpg highway. That was unheard of not that long ago.

The new 2019 Insight is the least goofiest looking compact hybrid on the market and gets 55mpg.

Until Electric cars truly take over we are still in good shape for now with ICE. Even if gas prices still rise.

I also predict when Electric cars do take off the price of ICE cars will drop significantly which will further still make them a compelling value.
Gas is cheap, that's why nobody cares.

When I started driving, min wage was $2.25/hr and gas cost $0.25/l. A Dodge 1/2 ton used 23l to go 100KM. That means a min wage earner would work for 2.5hrs to buy enough gas to drive 100km.

Today, min wage is $14, and gas costs 1.25/l. A newer Dodge 1/2 ton uses 16l to go 100km, so a min wage earner works for 1.4hrs to buy enough gas to drive 100km.
Both very good points.

It is really amazing the efficiency improvements we've seen over the last ten years or so. I'm sure the trend will continue to improve but with the laws of diminishing returns what is the realistic limit we could reach? I wonder....

One thing I've often wondered is why don't we have hybrids like diesel locomotives? An ICE engine spins a generator at a constant (read: most efficient) rpm, and that in turn drives an electric motor for propulsion. Is it not possible or feasible to scale it down into something that would fit in a car? Or even a transport truck?

I think one of the ideas that's pushing me towards electric is that I'm tired of being a chump paying whatever "they" feel like charging us for fuel. If I were to switch to a small gas ICE car, I'd still be a chump... just less of a chump. Driving a car that would use battery power for 90% or more of my driving gives me the ability to give "them" the finger every time I drive it.

I also wonder about the future of home power generation. What if we replaced our roof, when it is due for replacement, with something like the Tesla solar shingles and with that we charge up a home battery that will then charge up the car battery? Lots of efficiency loss there, I know, but what will happen in the next decade? As battery technology improves will there be an aftermarket replacement available for the Volt (or any other electric car) with greater capacity and range?
 

mxs

Well-known member
Site Supporter
I also wonder about the future of home power generation. What if we replaced our roof, when it is due for replacement, with something like the Tesla solar shingles and with that we charge up a home battery that will then charge up the car battery? Lots of efficiency loss there, I know, but what will happen in the next decade? As battery technology improves will there be an aftermarket replacement available for the Volt (or any other electric car) with greater capacity and range?
Why do you think there's a LOT of efficiency loss there? Many people in solar favorable parts of the world are doing it already. During a day their solar fills up a power wall, and in the evening when they get home they top-off their car battery and use whatever is left to run home and when they need to they tap into the off-peak grid. It costs pretty money in the beginning, but it's pretty good way to run thinks if you can ...

Anyways, it feels pretty good to NOT worry so much about gas prices ... I am down to about 180L/month running one BEV and one ICE and it's getting lower and lower as I drive the BEV more and more. Basically, ICE sees only longer rides. No inefficient city running, unless I absolutely have to use both vehicles.
 

GreyGhost

Well-known member
Site Supporter
One thing I've often wondered is why don't we have hybrids like diesel locomotives? An ICE engine spins a generator at a constant (read: most efficient) rpm, and that in turn drives an electric motor for propulsion. Is it not possible or feasible to scale it down into something that would fit in a car? Or even a transport truck?
I thought this would be a good idea in the past, but you are combining the heaviest and most expensive power trains so it probably wouldn't be economically viable.

As battery capacities are becoming larger and prices dropping, the economy of the ICE matters less and less. If you have to fill your volt once a month instead of once every 3 months, but in exchange the car is $2000 cheaper, that is an easy choice for me.

I am surprised they put such a large ICE in the Volt. Again, this is probably because it is designed as a transition vehicle to easy people into plug in vehicles. Something like a much better version of the i3 powertrain makes a lot of sense. Around a 30 hp constant speed engine to charge the battery. This is more than enough to maintain highway speed in north america. Rapid acceleration draws from the battery, cruising allows some power back into the battery.
 

DJM

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I wasn't able to find the cost of the Tesla shingles, but 2 Powerwalls are about 20K installed. I'd be dead long before the payback. And really, if everyone in Ontario switched to these the price of electricity would rise exponentially to make up the revenue loss.
 

mxs

Well-known member
Site Supporter
That's a big IF ... you never these sort of energy source transitions to happen in such fashion ... it will take decades and decades when majority of population switches to renewable power and by that time, our old but trusty grid will have to become a lot smarter and the utilities will have to start playing a very different role as well. It's a run on very looooong distance.

Don't worry about the Tesla shingles ... it will take long time before they become available up here. Of course the payback is not great up here whether its panels or power walls, because we enjoy relatively cheap price per grid kWh and our insolation rating is generally not greatest, plus 4 seasons with snow, ice ... etc. etc. But imagine you live in sunny area with no winter and expensive grid rates ... all of a sudden your position/payback gets a different positive spin on things.
 

caboose56

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Why do you think there's a LOT of efficiency loss there? Many people in solar favorable parts of the world are doing it already. During a day their solar fills up a power wall, and in the evening when they get home they top-off their car battery and use whatever is left to run home and when they need to they tap into the off-peak grid. It costs pretty money in the beginning, but it's pretty good way to run thinks if you can ...

Anyways, it feels pretty good to NOT worry so much about gas prices ... I am down to about 180L/month running one BEV and one ICE and it's getting lower and lower as I drive the BEV more and more. Basically, ICE sees only longer rides. No inefficient city running, unless I absolutely have to use both vehicles.
Any time energy is converted there's an efficiency loss. Quantitatively, I have no idea what typical numbers would be in a system that converts solar energy to stored chemical energy then converts that into a different cell of stored chemical energy. A lot? A little? I'm just speculating.
 

GagguP

Well-known member
What are everyone's thoughts on buying new / used (1 or 2 year old), what kind of price point would you be looking for on a 2016/2017 Volt?
 

Rick CH

Well-known member
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If you look at the prices for 1 or 2 year old used Volts, they're being priced pretty close to what a new one with the provincial incentive would cost out the door. One or two on this thread bought new and could chime in with their experience.
 

Scuba Steve

Well-known member
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If you look at the prices for 1 or 2 year old used Volts, they're being priced pretty close to what a new one with the provincial incentive would cost out the door. One or two on this thread bought new and could chime in with their experience.
I found used pricing to be way high thats why i bought new.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 

GreyGhost

Well-known member
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If you look at the prices for 1 or 2 year old used Volts, they're being priced pretty close to what a new one with the provincial incentive would cost out the door. One or two on this thread bought new and could chime in with their experience.
When I bought my last TDI, used were more money than new so I bought new. Volt seems to be the same for now. Owners hope the lack of inventory and cost-savings prop up the price enough to cover their entire outlay.
 

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