ABS brakes vs non ABS

[fastar1]

Forum Sponsor

It's called risk homeostasis, where people take the benefit provided by safety innovations and apply them in a way that distributes the benefit to other areas of their lives, to improve their wealth, social interaction, leisure time, or what-have-you. Like doing their makeup while driving. The theory is controversial, but to me that's because it proposes that risk level remains constant even with improved safety measures. I contend that risk is reduced somewhat, roughly to the same extent that time and money savings are also increased.

So I'd say that while the full theoretical reduction in collisions due to the introduction of ABS and all those other electronic nannies may never fully materialize, safety is improved to a degree even though it makes people bigger nincompoops.

 

[ddusseld]

I am not sure how the message I quoted is agreeing but whatever, no big deal....

Originally Posted by 09SV650S
I seriously question this! not trying to start something here but I would get her ABS system checked out then! Because My SV has it and I've stopped my bike from highway speeds to a grinding halt that feels like it will throw you over the bars in pretty short distances!

Sorry mate! I'm thinking it might be a bit of driver error, lack of ability, or a incorrectly working system. On a side note: tire condition can be a factor in stopping distance but I'm assuming the bikes tires are in safe operating conditions with enough tread and proper air pressure as well. Tires will have an effect on stopping distance but not at the big distance that you're portraying.

That's my nickel."

I did agree with Sunny so whats the deal? But a bike with ABS is still safer than one with out.

 

[09SV650S]

Do a little online searching then. It's a known intermittent issue, with current ABS systems. If you hit a bump when it's activated, the system will occasionally kick out for an extended period, once the tire is grounded again. This can result in quite radically extended braking distances. It even occurs with the BMW S1000RR. It doesn't happen all the time and ABS is definitely a benefit, but it's serious brown trousers time when it does occur.

I'm not debating the fact that this doesn't happen. But it comes down to the rider. I know when mine disengages for any reason and shuts down the abs light stays on!

Maybe her bike has a light to? If it does did anyone ask her if it was on while she was under hard breaking. Of so the system was disengaged.

Again not disputing the fact that scenario doesn't happen but she'd be able to react better when the bike is telling her what is going on at the same time.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

I'm not debating the fact that this doesn't happen. But it comes down to the rider. I know when mine disengages for any reason and shuts down the abs light stays on!

Maybe her bike has a light to? If it does did anyone ask her if it was on while she was under hard breaking. Of so the system was disengaged.

Again not disputing the fact that scenario doesn't happen but she'd be able to react better when the bike is telling her what is going on at the same time.

The ABS system does not consider it to be a 'fault', and so it doesn't report it as a failure. It disengages the brakes for perhaps a quarter of a second, which amounts to having absolutely no brake control for 3.5 metres, at a mere 50 Kmh. That will put you into the intersection.

 

[09SV650S]

The ABS system does not consider it to be a 'fault', and so it doesn't report it as a failure. It disengages the brakes for perhaps a quarter of a second, which amounts to having absolutely no brake control for 3.5 metres, at a mere 50 Kmh. That will put you into the intersection.

Wow what a debate lol

Long story short. Rider is still responsible for the vehicle they operate. Under any conditions with any vehicle safety options equipped.

Even when my abs has disengaged. I've still managed to stop fast enough. Even more so at a 50km/h crawl.

If the bike in front stopped sooner. Then there's way more to that story than a bump in the road. I'd say reaction time and a few other things in there as well.

 

[fastar1]

Wow what a debate lol

Long story short. Rider is still responsible for the vehicle they operate. Under any conditions with any vehicle safety options equipped.

Even when my abs has disengaged. I've still managed to stop fast enough. Even more so at a 50km/h crawl.

If the bike in front stopped sooner. Then there's way more to that story than a bump in the road. I'd say reaction time and a few other things in there as well.

It's not the same as having the ABS disengaged, where you can still apply the brakes. In the situations being described, the BRAKES are disengaged when the ABS is on and senses no grip. What's a rider supposed to do?

The bike could have had front wheel hop/chatter in this example, causing ABS to disengage the brakes for a good length. Like Sunny said, the suspension has to be tuned right.

 

[09SV650S]

It's not the same as having the ABS disengaged, where you can still apply the brakes. In the situations being described, the BRAKES are disengaged when the ABS is on and senses no grip. What's a rider supposed to do?

Well nothing I guess. Do an emergency bail like mentioned in the other thread lol There did we solve the worlds issues now? hahaha

 

[Alex_San]

I still worry about the implementation of all these safety devices that will be coming to the Motorcycle industry in the near future. One just needs to take a look at what all of these safety devices ABS,TC, DSTC etc etc have done to the car industry.

Sure the cars are much safer, they brake,steer, wipe your arse for you, but overall the quality of driving by the average Canadian has decreased since the introduction of said safety devices.

Sometimes learning from your mistakes is key. A new riders first highside or lowside is usually a good reminder of how dangerous it can be operating two wheels on a public road. Once TC and ABS becomes the norm i feel this important wake up call will disappear.

I think the quality of driving is more related to the general behaviour and mental attitude of many GTA residents (I won't say Canadians, since I didn't see this mess elsewhere) -> ignorance, I'm better than you, road is mine, it won't happen to me, more ignorance.
Having said that, I totally understand where you're coming from...

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Wow what a debate lol

Long story short. Rider is still responsible for the vehicle they operate. Under any conditions with any vehicle safety options equipped.

Even when my abs has disengaged. I've still managed to stop fast enough. Even more so at a 50km/h crawl.

If the bike in front stopped sooner. Then there's way more to that story than a bump in the road. I'd say reaction time and a few other things in there as well.

I think that you're missing a fundamental point here. The ABS doesn't 'disengage' in this situation, leaving the brakes functional. This is a case in which ALL braking is lost.

It's not the same as having the ABS disengaged, where you can still apply the brakes. In the situations being described, the BRAKES are disengaged when the ABS is on and senses no grip. What's a rider supposed to do?

The bike could have had front wheel hop/chatter in this example, causing ABS to disengage the brakes for a good length. Like Sunny said, the suspension has to be tuned right.

Properly tuned suspension will minimize this condition, but won't eliminate it. Square-edged bumps, like potholes, can still trigger it with the best of suspension.

 

[SunnY S]

Proper suspension set up is critical. A lot of guys have found this the best solution.

As well, it also matters HOW you brake with ABS equipped bikes.

The BMW Performance Center in South Carolina, the BMW preferred method of teaching braking for ABS bikes is to do this :

-first, a sudden and hard rear brake application followed a split second later by a smooth, quick and full application of the front brake.

I can honestly say, since I adopted these 2 solutions in my riding, I haven't experienced an ABS release since.


For those that want to experience the scary effects of ABS release......... at your own risk of course........ take the downbound Appleby Line hill where it gets bumpy as you descend just before the hairpin, and hammer the brakes. You're welcome.


Having said all this..... I will never ever NOT own a bike without ABS.

.

 

[Wingboy]

I will never own a touring bike without abs.The linked braking system on my Wing is a big plus in combination with the abs.

 

[BPS88]

Anyone knw how the as on the monster 696?

 

[SunnY S]

Anyone knw how the as on the monster 696?

^^^^ looks like you typed this on an iphone.


When you spring for the ABS option on a Duc 696/796, the already small gas tank, shrinks even smaller.

Thats unacceptable and poor engineering IMHO.


.

 

[Low rider]

The major issue with ABS on motorcycles is the sole fact that under heavy breaking situations, the rear wheel has very little weight alocated to it.
In such situations where the rider may not feel comfortable to jam harder on the front brake, the rear wheel will just continue to free wheel over stutter bumps.
Thus extending the braking distance.

ABS is not for me.
Extending braking distances isn't a great idea.
Every time I ride her SV, the ABS kicks in at every stoplight.
Yes, I am heavy on the brakes. But the ABS should not ever, ever ever extend a braking distance in my opinoin.
For that reason, ABS should never be put onto motorcycles.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

The major issue with ABS on motorcycles is the sole fact that under heavy breaking situations, the rear wheel has very little weight alocated to it.
In such situations where the rider may not feel comfortable to jam harder on the front brake, the rear wheel will just continue to free wheel over stutter bumps.
Thus extending the braking distance.

It doesn't extend it any more than a locked rear wheel will. Less, in fact, even over 'stutter bumps.'

ABS is not for me.
Extending braking distances isn't a great idea.
Every time I ride her SV, the ABS kicks in at every stoplight.
Yes, I am heavy on the brakes. But the ABS should not ever, ever ever extend a braking distance in my opinoin.
For that reason, ABS should never be put onto motorcycles.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. It could just be that the ABS on the SV isn't up to the current standards. It could be that you would actually be locking the front wheel under braking, on the SV, if it didn't have ABS. Fact is that the current run of 'sport' ABS, on top of the line bikes, will out-brake 99% of the riders out there. It has gotten that good, apart from the sort of failures that ddusseld mentioned.

 

[rrbarna]

The major issue with ABS on motorcycles is the sole fact that under heavy breaking situations, the rear wheel has very little weight alocated to it.
In such situations where the rider may not feel comfortable to jam harder on the front brake, the rear wheel will just continue to free wheel over stutter bumps.
Thus extending the braking distance.

ABS is not for me.
Extending braking distances isn't a great idea.
Every time I ride her SV, the ABS kicks in at every stoplight.
Yes, I am heavy on the brakes. But the ABS should not ever, ever ever extend a braking distance in my opinoin.
For that reason, ABS should never be put onto motorcycles.

ABS interferes with my stunting, but it did save my ***** once. It sucks not to be able to come sliding to a stop sideways... freakin' technology.

Barna

Forum Sponsor