$10k new car!!! - why are bike prices so high??

MacDoc

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Metroland Media Group for Wheels.ca

Nissan announced pricing for its all-new Micra’s complete Canadian line-up this week and the automaker appears to be leaning on included features coupled with low prices.

The car, which carries the lowest MSRP in Canada at just $9,998, will see technological goodies like Bluetooth, Rear View Monitor, cruise control, manual air conditioning and automatic transmission.

Yammie's triples and Honda's 500s are getting the prices down but prices seem a rip off otherwise.
I can see limited production marques like Ducati and maybe Triumph commanding more but hell - the big three motorcycle makers surely could do better.

I mean c'mon $5800 for a Ninja 300!!! ( not to pick on Kawi but the CBR 250 list is $3500 now )

If the new prices come down then so will used ( thinking of that SV650s discussion )

Thoughts?
 
I think for one thing, cars are marketed to the mass consumer and expected to sell in larger numbers vs motorcycles which are usually "niche" recreational toys. I'll bet this car is built with all the lowest-end bin parts that Nissan could re-use from their other vehicles. Also I think my bike probably has more raw horsepower than that gawd ugly thing lol
 
That's likely too but if you look at machines like the KLR650 it went 20 years with little change and was and still is very good value for money.

It's new models every year that force the costs up and these days small volume runs are not really a big extra cost.

Honda is using half of a Jazz engine in the NC700 series.

I'm sure Suzuki's 650 motors all share some components.

I'd rather see changes every 5-7 years in models and lower prices....techinical upgrades within that period is okay but not major retooling all the time.

Also in Ontario would be good so see a major have insurance coverage :D
 
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Yammie's triples and Honda's 500s are getting the prices down but prices seem a rip off otherwise.
I can see limited production marques like Ducati and maybe Triumph commanding more but hell - the big three motorcycle makers surely could do better.

I mean c'mon $5800 for a Ninja 300!!! ( not to pick on Kawi but the CBR 250 list is $3500 now )

If the new prices come down then so will used ( thinking of that SV650s discussion )

Thoughts?
there has always been cars that start close to 10k new... i think the caviler and colbolt started at $12,999.
you really get what you pay for. what cars are you comparing this to and saying they are overpriced currently?
Fiat 500 $13,400
totyoa yaris $14,200
Chevy Sparc $11,900
Chevy Sonic $13,900
City Jetta $14,990 (IMO way better than the above cars, even though its not geared to really go over 80km)
 
Production quantity. Including worldwide sales, that car is made in much higher quantities than any up-market motorcycle.

That car is equivalent in the marketplace to a Honda Sonic scooter/motorcycle, which is something not sold in North America but is made in quantities of millions for the Asian market. Think CBR125 but with cheaper bodywork. Those are <$2000 in their home market (Thailand).

If you are looking at something more up-market and desirable ... triple the price. Same thing bike versus car.
 
www.eliomotors.com

Is this guy sniffing glue? Built in the USA. Soon hopefully. I want.

The Elio, wow, that's interesting.

However, it still has an internal combustion engine! Even a car that offers a fantastic 84 mpg is still a car that uses gasoline. For that kind of small vehicle that is only 1+1 (one driver, one passenger), I would buy it if it was all electric, with a range of 300 kms, and a price of USD $7,000.

Basically, this Elio car has to ditch the gas engine and go all electric. Everything else looks good.

[video=youtube;oXsNqPEbM_0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXsNqPEbM_0 [/video]
 
For less than $10k? Base model only is my guess...

More likely:
Rear view monitor +$1,000
Cruise control +$500 +additional wiring harness +$500
Air Conditionion +$1,000
Automatic Transmission +$1,200

+ the $9,998 equals $14,198 for that appointed vehicle.
 
The base model has the automatic transmission choice and these features stock
http://www.nissan.ca/content/dam/nissan/presskits/03-13-14_NC_15MICb_EN_r6-1_CAV.pdf

1.6-litre 4-cylinder engine
• 5-speed manual transmission or 4-speed automatic transmission
• 15" x 5.5" steel wheels with wheel covers
• P185/60R15 all-season tires
• Trip computer
• Variable intermittent windshield wipers
• 60/40 Split fold-down rear seats

Automatic transmission models add:
• Carpeted floor mats
• AM/FM/CD audio system with auxiliary
audio input jack and four speakers1 ® • Anti-lock Braking System (ABS)
Vehicle Dynamic Control (VDC) with
Traction Control System (TCS)

• Nissan Advanced Airbag System
• Air conditioning
• Cruise control with steering-wheel-mounted controls


Bottom line tho the prices are moving down and should do so in the entry and mid motorcycles as well.

$5400 for a Ninja 300 is a joke against a CBR250 at $3450 which will also be cheaper to insure ( not by much but hey we're talking entry level )

European and Japanese safety standards are stiff and hundreds of thousands of low to mid-level bikes are sold there - and too many mid models like the CB400F that are not sold in North America but which are sold in Australia which has a very strict safety and driver standards which keeps their insurance rates hilariously low compared to our ripoff system

We're getting screwed over every which way IMNSHO
 
If the market will bare that price - then that's what it will sell for.

MFG's are in the market to make money, not give product away.
 
because they want to be competitive in the market while using as little capital as they can. It's all about profits.
 
Just FYI, on that car, the auto tranny is available on the base trim level but not at the same price! It comes in a package with air conditioning and cruise control. The formatting in MacDoc's post is off. The radio, floor mats, etc are on the manual-tranny version.

I'll pretty much guarantee that auto tranny + air conditioning will add at least $2000 and probably $3000 to the price tag. No one will buy the absolute base model with manual transmission and no A/C. It is called a "loss leader". Nissan is not making money on those. It's a hook to get you in to the dealer where you will be up-sold to a higher trim level (or a Sentra).

This car is the equivalent of a scooter (and not MacDoc's fancy maxi-scooter) in the motorcycle world. It is not the equivalent of a CBR600.

And yes, I realize that the Nissan, cheap as it is, is a more complex vehicle than a CBR600 is.

A lot of it is production volume. The bikes that we see here in North America are all built in tiny production volumes by automotive standards. The entire production run of a good many up-market bikes (be it a CBR600 or a V-Strom or most anything else) is often 20,000 - 50,000 units total worldwide of all model years of each vehicle generation. Toyota sells 400,000 Camrys every year in the USA alone and they stay the same for several years. If you spend $20 million for that bike model on engineering, tooling, compliance with standards, etc that's $1000 per unit JUST FOR THE DEVELOPMENT. The Camry may have cost $500 million for development and tooling ... but divide that by 2 million units over the model run and it's only $250 per vehicle.

Don't forget also that if we use Honda for the bike example, they have some successful up-market models (CBR600) and their share of duds (DN-01, anyone?) and the sales of the successful models have to pay for not only their own development but also to subsidize the duds ... It cost them (order of magnitude) just as much to develop the DN-01 as it did a CBR600. So now it's $2000 tacked on to that CBR600, because the sales volume of the DN-01 couldn't possibly have covered but a fraction of what it cost them to develop that turd. (Sorry to anyone who owns one ... but the chances of anyone reading this and owning a DN-01 are pretty slim!)

Standardization in the automotive industry helps, too. It's much more extensive than it is with motorcycles. One of my customers builds the timing belt tensioner for every in-line-configuration VW diesel engine worldwide. Every VW diesel engine of an in-line 3 or 4 configuration uses variations of this tensioner and those engines are used in every VW, Audi, Seat, or Skoda with a transverse engine and a good many of the Audis with a longitudinal engine. It is a variation of a design that has been in production for a couple of decades. The parts that go to the engine assembly plant or to the dealer's service-parts desk or to most aftermarket channels (all of the good ones, there are some inferior copies) all come from the same source. The VW Group builds millions of cars every year, probably 40% of them are diesels ... do the math.

Honda Motor Corporation worldwide builds approximately 4 million cars and "trucks" ... and about 15 million motorcycles. The majority of those 15 million are not Gold Wings, CBR600s, etc. They are names we've never heard of ... Sonic, Wave, Airblade ... little single cylinder bikes on which the whole continent of Asia gets around on. The CBR125 and the Grom piggyback onto the engineering of those bikes. Simple, no-nonsense, and most certainly cheap, and built in HUGE production volumes. Those are the equivalent of the Nissan Micra in the marketplace and they are priced accordingly. The bikes that we consider desirable in our market ... are built in comparatively tiny volumes - so they cost more!
 
You can have a cheap entry level motorcycle, too. It's called a Honda Sonic, it isn't sold in our market (Grom/CBR125 are cousins) but it is sold in Asia, is built in vast quantities, and costs $2000-ish in that market. The Nissan Micra is a cheap entry level compact car that hasn't been sold in our market up until now but has been sold worldwide in vast quantities and it costs $10,000-ish. A CBR600 in terms of production volume is likely closer to Porsche Cayman level, and those cost a smidge more than $10,000 ! ! !

If you want a vehicle to be cheap, it has to be built in huge quantities. Doesn't matter car or bike. If it's not built in huge quantities, it's either gonna be expensive for what it is (car example: Porsche Cayman, bike example: just about anything in our market), or it's going to be a money-loser for the manufacturer, and there are plenty of examples of those to go around, both car and bike ...
 
Out of curiosity, why are you comparing cheap entry level compacts to motorcycles?

It is apples and oranges, but he has a point.

For example, how is it possible that the new Vespa 946 (with a single cylinder 4-stroke 125 cc) sells for USD $9,000 ($10K Canadian), the same price than a Nissan Micra car (1.6-litre 4-cylinder engine + seating for 5)?

How did motorcycles got so expensive?
 
Ummm, Brian? Can you go through all that again? Some of us weren't paying attention. Lol
Top notch answer though.


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