Good point on the tax on any investment returns but put the investment in a TFSA or RRSP and you're good.
Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?
- Thread starter PrivatePilot
- Start date
2 million Euro construction cost??? What in the actual F.
I had some involvement with a prototype/experimental hydrogen filling station installation some years back (can't say where, NDA) and they spent more than that!
Hydrogen leaks through practically everything. Hydrogen has very low ignition energy and very wide explosive limits. You can't see the flames when it burns (only the flames from whatever else it sets on fire in the process). Requires pretty extreme countermeasures against leaks, and against fire if it does leak. Everything has to be specially made for hydrogen service. And, after all that, hydrogen is energy-intensive to make, bulky and heavy to transport (it's not the weight of the hydrogen, it's the weight of the pressure vessels to contain it, and yet more special countermeasures against leaks), which ends up making it expensive. The whole thing was a nightmare.
I know where to check on google maps and what to look for, and it ain't there any more.
This might be a tipping point reason for us to move to EV next car
We don't drive enough to justify but having a power source in the driveway plus all the other reasons for EV .....
www.theguardian.com
www.carexpert.com.au
We don't drive enough to justify but having a power source in the driveway plus all the other reasons for EV .....
Queensland woman uses electric car to run her son’s dialysis machine during power cut
Kristy Holmes always knew she could use her electric car for ‘good things’, but when storms caused a blackout, it proved life-saving
www.theguardian.com
2023 BYD Atto 3 Extended Range review
The BYD Atto 3 might be from a new brand, but it's quickly established itself as an electric car leader in Australia. Here's why.
www.carexpert.com.au
This is a developing situation. At the moment you'll have to pick and choose the vehicle carefully. Most of them today don't have the capability of exporting power (example, my Bolt) - aside from the negligible amount through the 12-volt power the same way as on any other car. Some have one-directional charging connectors and built in AC power outlets, which means you plug in via the CCS2 plug (I think you're in Australia, right?) for charging and you can plug in a 240v AC device into that outlet in the car. A very small number of them have bidirectional CCS1/2 capability through the AC charging equipment IF your EVSE charging station has the capability to manage it (F150 Lightning, apparently). The newer Hyundai/Kia vehicles have some way of doing this but I don't know the details. The VW ID... vehicles apparently are hardware-capable in the vehicle but I don't know if it's enabled yet or what sort of EVSE is needed in order to make use of it.
Backfeeding an AC circuit in your house if the power fails is normally no bueno, because it can back-feed all the way into the grid power by being stepped up to grid voltage at your transformer, and attempting to back-feed your whole neighborhood is going to cause badness to occur.
The DC to DC charger on the Gen2 Volt can push enough amps from the HV battery into the 12v system to maintain a ~2500w inverter running flat out. There are people who have hooked up 5+kw inverters to handle surge loads and just let the battery to handle the surge and then the DC2DC recover it once load drops. You just have to leave the car turned on - if you put an elastic band on the shift button it stops it from turning off as well.
But honestly, even 2000w goes a long way for emergency backup power - I have run a good portion of our house this way during past ice storms, sitting inside watching TV with the internet up and running, a bunch of lights, the furnace (all you need is the electronics and blower when youv'e got a gas furnace, thankfully), and when the power was out long enough that it became necessary, the refrigerator.
People waaaaay over estimate the wattage they need to run the essentials. We deliver a lot of the Generac backup power systems and I see people opting for 10-15kw systems when in reality in an emergency they could easily get away with a 2000w Honda and some extension cords. Yeah, you can run your stove and oven and all the luxuries with a 15kw system, but unless you're cooking Thanksgiving dinner during a major power outage, you really don't need it. Only exception would be is if you rely on electric baseboard heaters or something.
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The flipside to that is if you want unattended transfer to standby power, the price of the generator is only a small percentage of the bill. Paying a five figure bill for install and hardware that only gives you the bare necessities doesn't make sense to me (or most other people). Add a couple grand and you can continue on with your life almost unchanged with the grid down. Hell, finding a small, electric start, natural gas generator may not save you anything from a 10kw as the demand for those is so low that not many exist.
I have an EU2000 which runs what I need. Obviously it is a manual situation and if I am away from home, it is mostly useless. Also, I don't keep gas just for generator. Extended outage could be an issue. I typically have a 5 gallon tank of gas for the snowblower but normally only refill when it's empty so I may not have much available unless I siphon cars. On the upside, the generator isn't very thirsty. In past power outages, I ran it for an hour to get furnace and fridge caught up and then turned it off for 8 hours or so. I have some USB power banks now, so they will get added to the on cycle to power things while generator is off. If it's really cold or people are over, I could leave it running for lights but that is quite fuel inefficient as you need very little power.
I guess it depends on how handy one is, and how inconvenienced they're willing to be. Personally, knowing that some people pay in the vicinity of $10,000 for an automatic system, I'd rather a $1000 Honda 2000w inverter (or use what you have, in my case the cars) and put that other $9000 somewhere else.
I suppose if I lived in a rural area where the power went out evertime a mouse farted in the woods I'd feel different, but living somewhere reasonably urban where most outages are a few hours at most, and the longest one ever (during the blackout) was 24 hours, we have always made do with a few thousand watts and some careful loading.
I understand that not everyone is savvy enough to do this sort of thing though.
Back when I relied on a generator, whenever we'd get an ice storm warning in the winter I'd go out and pickup a bunch of gas. What level KillStorm they were calling for would dictate how much - sometimes I'd get a single jerry can, and I remember one of the worst ones we'd had forcasted I bought 100L. Worse case we just burned it in the cars afterwards. Best case, we'd be able to live pretty comfortably for a week.
Now I just go gas up both cars, and between the traction batteries, and then the engine just running to maintain them, between the two cars we'd also be good for probably a week.
@Brian P if one was to look for a Bolt...what is the current status / confirmation of whether the battery was replaced following their previous recalls on the matter?
I'm seeing recalls for both 2018 - 2019 and 2020-2022 which was superseded by a recall for all of them.
I did read on reddit that some people got <$2000 to just screw off and ended up not being able to get the new battery, while also losing 20% of their range.
I'm seeing recalls for both 2018 - 2019 and 2020-2022 which was superseded by a recall for all of them.
I did read on reddit that some people got <$2000 to just screw off and ended up not being able to get the new battery, while also losing 20% of their range.
Get the VIN and call a GM dealer, the service department will be able to look up the warranty history and tell you if it has a new battery or not.
The latest development with the late 2019-2022 Bolts that were built with the US-built battery but before the recall production-stop, is that rather than replacing the batteries in all of them, they were going to install software to limit charge to 80% while it watched for certain telltale signs that the battery needed replacement, and only replace it if that software indicated a fault, and this was to be active for 10,000 km at which point it would revert to being able to charge to 100%. But then it was discovered that this fault-detection software was false-tripping, and there was another software revision to fix that (still leaving the 80% charge limit in place for 10,000 km).
Vehicles built after (I think) early calendar year 2022 (includes mine) were built post-recall and aren't affected by all this. Very few 2022s (only a very small number built very early), and no 2023s, will be affected.
So, step 1, check VIN with dealer. Step 1A have the dealer confirm that it has the correct software in place for what battery is in the car, and whether that is affected by the 80% charging limit.
Step 2, turn car on, on center screen press the green leaf down near the bottom, select the "Charging" tab, "Options", "Charging limit" brings up a bar graph (there's two different ones, "Home" and "Away", check both). The white line on the scale is what the charging limit is set to. If it isn't already at 100%, drag it to 100% and see whether it accepts it or not.
The really early ones don't let you set any charging limit that you want, it either charges to 100% by default or there's a "Hilltop Reserve" that limits it to (I think) 88%, but this was changed after the first couple of years. But those should have all had the battery replaced as opposed to the software shenanigans. If you find an early one that hasn't had the battery changed (only for owners who were living under a rock, or didn't care), it remains eligible, and the dealer should be able to get it changed for free.
Vehicles built after (I think) early calendar year 2022 (includes mine) were built post-recall and aren't affected by all this. Very few 2022s (only a very small number built very early), and no 2023s, will be affected.
So, step 1, check VIN with dealer. Step 1A have the dealer confirm that it has the correct software in place for what battery is in the car, and whether that is affected by the 80% charging limit.
Step 2, turn car on, on center screen press the green leaf down near the bottom, select the "Charging" tab, "Options", "Charging limit" brings up a bar graph (there's two different ones, "Home" and "Away", check both). The white line on the scale is what the charging limit is set to. If it isn't already at 100%, drag it to 100% and see whether it accepts it or not.
The really early ones don't let you set any charging limit that you want, it either charges to 100% by default or there's a "Hilltop Reserve" that limits it to (I think) 88%, but this was changed after the first couple of years. But those should have all had the battery replaced as opposed to the software shenanigans. If you find an early one that hasn't had the battery changed (only for owners who were living under a rock, or didn't care), it remains eligible, and the dealer should be able to get it changed for free.
Great thanks! Found a few 2022/2023 which are sub-35k which interest me.
A handful of QC cars which don’t interest me as QC has always been on my not interested list.
A handful of QC cars which don’t interest me as QC has always been on my not interested list.
Chris-CJ
Well-known member
Range and charge comparison from "Car and Driver"
There is a reconfiguration of my 200A panel coming up soon. Free up some space by using tandem breakers and use that space to include future loads (panel is rated for all tandems). Reconfiguration will be in consultation with a sparky but to avoid being burnt by one persons possibly incorrect opinion, what is a reasonable breaker size for EVSE? I won't get the wire run until an electric vehicle is in the near future. I am thinking 50A as that should be good enough for any EV needs I'll ever have. Demand calc says with two EV's charging at 40A, hottub, A/C, pool heater, air compressor and dryer running, I am still under 200A. The number of times all of those things happened concurrently would be very very close to zero.
I don't want to do 60A breakers for EVSE as that would require separate disconnects near the EVSE and at least one may be potentially mounted 8' above grade which I can't see passing.
@PrivatePilot what did you end up installing at your house? Obviously it has been working for your needs including a BEV.
EDIT:
According to this, if charging current is limited to 48A, no disconnect is needed for a 60A breaker. That sounds like a better plan. With 48Ax2 and everything else in the house on, just kissing 200A expected load.
If an EV is being used bi-directional, there will need to be a full reconfiguration at that point to incorporate the required lockouts.
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Back to 50A max if possible. Can't get duplex breakers any larger for this panel. If I had to I could do even more reconfiguration and retire some existing full-size 2P breakers but I would prefer not to throw out too many expensive breakers.
I don't want to do 60A breakers for EVSE as that would require separate disconnects near the EVSE and at least one may be potentially mounted 8' above grade which I can't see passing.
@PrivatePilot what did you end up installing at your house? Obviously it has been working for your needs including a BEV.
EDIT:
According to this, if charging current is limited to 48A, no disconnect is needed for a 60A breaker. That sounds like a better plan. With 48Ax2 and everything else in the house on, just kissing 200A expected load.
If an EV is being used bi-directional, there will need to be a full reconfiguration at that point to incorporate the required lockouts.
EDIT 2:
Back to 50A max if possible. Can't get duplex breakers any larger for this panel. If I had to I could do even more reconfiguration and retire some existing full-size 2P breakers but I would prefer not to throw out too many expensive breakers.
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50-amp breaker can be used for a dedicated NEMA 14-50 receptacle, and that will supply up to a 40-amp EVSE on 240V. (9.6 kW) And because it's a receptacle, you're free to decide what to do with it later. If you've got electrical work coming up anyhow, you might as well get your permit once and be done with it ... pick a place for the receptacle and run the cable out to it. Then when you later get an EVSE, you can just plug it in.
Mine has a 14-50 receptacle on a 30-amp breaker and the EVSE is set to 24 amps, and that is enough for a full charge overnight for a non-pickup-truck EV. I didn't set it higher, because long ago when I drywalled the basement and ran a cable from the panel past the drywalled area "just in case", I didn't foresee connecting an EV charger to it. Still, it's enough.
Any EVSE requiring more than a 50-amp breaker+circuit (i.e. 60-amp circuit with the EVSE set to 80% = 48 amps) has to be hard-wired.
The on-board AC charger on the newer Bolts (including mine) will take 48 amps (11.2 kW) if you give it to it. The GM-supplied dual-voltage charger that the EUV comes with, is 32 amps.
I haven't run across anyone who has installed a 240V AC EVSE of higher capacity than that.
Mine has a 14-50 receptacle on a 30-amp breaker and the EVSE is set to 24 amps, and that is enough for a full charge overnight for a non-pickup-truck EV. I didn't set it higher, because long ago when I drywalled the basement and ran a cable from the panel past the drywalled area "just in case", I didn't foresee connecting an EV charger to it. Still, it's enough.
Any EVSE requiring more than a 50-amp breaker+circuit (i.e. 60-amp circuit with the EVSE set to 80% = 48 amps) has to be hard-wired.
The on-board AC charger on the newer Bolts (including mine) will take 48 amps (11.2 kW) if you give it to it. The GM-supplied dual-voltage charger that the EUV comes with, is 32 amps.
I haven't run across anyone who has installed a 240V AC EVSE of higher capacity than that.
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You have a 30A breaker on a 50A receptacle? ESA used to allow a 40A breaker on 50A receptacle in special circumstances but not anymore. They need a 50A breaker on 50A receptacle (see bulletin I linked above). I am surprised they approved 30A breaker for you (although, in my mind, worst case scenario would be a ton of "nuisance" trips if you plugged in a 50A load).
