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2022 MotoGP Discussion (No Links - Contains Spoilers!)
- Thread starter Chaos
- Start date
Would it be a surprise if they are leaving the motor cycle business they haven't made a competitive or modern bike for a long time. It seems like they quit the motorcycle business 10 years ago or more just haven't bothered telling anyone until now.
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According to this: Suzuki To Withdraw From MotoGP At End Of 2022 Season | MotoMatters.com | Kropotkin Thinks
Aprilia is looking to scoop up the 2 now-available slots to support a satellite team. the most natural conclusion is to target a current Moto2 team to run the bikes.
The following Moto2 teams have been in MotoGP in the past. Perhaps one of them may be back to MotoGP:
MarcVDS
Pons
Aspar
Forward
edit: so this is interesting....
Apparently, some negotiation is going to need to be had to replace the factory team with a satellite team. The current 6 satellite teams get an equal share of revenue from Dorna (factories do not get this). So if another satellite team is added, each satellite team's share will gets will decrease (e.g. cutting the same size of pie into more pieces). The natural solution of course if for Dorna to dig deeper in their pockets (e.g. make the pie bigger). Let's see how this goes down. Personally, I think we'll be down to 22 bikes next year. Shame.
Aprilia is looking to scoop up the 2 now-available slots to support a satellite team. the most natural conclusion is to target a current Moto2 team to run the bikes.
The following Moto2 teams have been in MotoGP in the past. Perhaps one of them may be back to MotoGP:
MarcVDS
Pons
Aspar
Forward
edit: so this is interesting....
Apparently, some negotiation is going to need to be had to replace the factory team with a satellite team. The current 6 satellite teams get an equal share of revenue from Dorna (factories do not get this). So if another satellite team is added, each satellite team's share will gets will decrease (e.g. cutting the same size of pie into more pieces). The natural solution of course if for Dorna to dig deeper in their pockets (e.g. make the pie bigger). Let's see how this goes down. Personally, I think we'll be down to 22 bikes next year. Shame.
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Priller
Well-known member
Yup. And apparently Dorna made their contracts more punitive for bailing early after Kawasaki left with little notice in 2008. It's not clear how much they'll have to pay to get out, but the word is it's not insignificant.
Dorna has just released a statement essentially threatening Suzuki with legal action if they leave, as well as saying, "We'll be fine without them anyway!", by highlighting mysterious manufacturers who will come in to fill the spot. (Considering both Kawasaki and BMW are extremely unlikely and the only companies left would be KTM subsidiaries, the odds are very low that this would be a new factory.)
Here's David Emmett's breakdown:
Dorna Issue Statement On Suzuki Withdrawal - Remind Suzuki Of Contractual Obligations | MotoMatters.com | Kropotkin Thinks
As he notes, it's a holiday week in Japan, so an official statement from Suzuki corporate is unlikely until Monday...
I'm wondering the same thing, though that would be a much bigger bombshell. If this is a broader 'motorcycle industry' decision then the timing makes a lot more sense, at least. Claiming Covid costs now seems crazy just after the first fully attended round of the year in Jerez. Why would you struggle through two years of reduced revenue and no home races just to bail now? Add the contractual stuff above, along with moves like hiring the well regarded (but not cheap) Livio Suppo as team manager, and this feels very left field if viewed purely from within the paddock.
The only thing that would make sense from a purely racing perspective is they took a look at the paddock, complete with a newly competitive Aprilia aggressively spending Mamma Piaggio's cash, and decided it would simply cost too much to keep their bike competitive. Faced with spending a packet to keep Mir and Rins around, they simply decided to pull the plug. Suzuki is notorious for operating on a shoestring, and while GP racing is cheaper than it used to be, it's not cheap.
But the real benefit of participating for the manufacturers is the R&D, and if Suzuki has no plans to make new models, that data is wasted. Suzuki has fallen a long way from the company that gave us the SV650, the Gixxer K5 and the Hayabusa. Or, rather, they're still selling basically the same bikes 20 odd years later...
There were rumours that RNF was looking at making a switch to Aprilia even before this all happened, as they're apparently extremely unhappy with Yamaha. One rumoured possibility is they go over to the Italian marque and Yamaha soaks up a chunk of the i4 know-how from the Suzuki box to make a new satellite team.
I heard something similar, with the extra tentacle that VR46 will assume the Yamaha satellite team role. Not sure how that will work given VR46 had signed a 3-year deal with Ducati. But evidently, contracts are made to be broken....
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I remember when Suzuki last withdrew from MotoGP in 2011, they told everyone that they planned to be back in 2014. They made good on that promise.
No such plans for returning this time around. They may be gone for a while.
No such plans for returning this time around. They may be gone for a while.
Well crap, Suzuki (no matter who’s riding it) is who I’ve always rooted for in motogp. As they’re now mostly gone from motocross racing as well it could be, as stated, the final spiral down which would be a shame.
They pulled out of Motocross? Supercross too?
TK4
Well-known member
Could GasGas Step Into The Premier Class If Suzuki Leaves MotoGP?
Following rumors of Suzuki’s impending departure from MotoGP, many analysts believe GasGas is a prime candidate to join the premier class.
www.rideapart.com
Racing is a very expensive form of advertisement and Suzuki hasn't been investing anything into their street bikes in ages, so from a financial standpoint withdrawing from MotoGP makes a lot of sense.
I was about to make a snarky joke that the last significantly new street bike model that Suzuki produced was my 2004 VStrom 650. Except then I stopped and thought about it, and that statement might actually be close to true?!
In terms of new engineering, the VStrom had the SV650 engine and a new frame. I guess they introduced a new frame with the Gladius in 2009 (which is still used on today's SV650), and it looks like the GSR750 was introduced in 2011 (and is now the GSX-S750). All of those inherited engines from previous models that have otherwise had very few updates other than emissions compliance.
I was about to make a snarky joke that the last significantly new street bike model that Suzuki produced was my 2004 VStrom 650. Except then I stopped and thought about it, and that statement might actually be close to true?!
In terms of new engineering, the VStrom had the SV650 engine and a new frame. I guess they introduced a new frame with the Gladius in 2009 (which is still used on today's SV650), and it looks like the GSR750 was introduced in 2011 (and is now the GSX-S750). All of those inherited engines from previous models that have otherwise had very few updates other than emissions compliance.
Priller
Well-known member
This all gets very complicated. Apparently the satellite teams get funding from Dorna while factory teams don't, and adding one would reduce the pool of funds to the rest. But GasGas would functionally be a satellite team as well, unless they were to develop an entirely new bike, which is extremely unlikely. And if they were to call themselves a factory team but use the KTM as a base, there would be all sorts of issues around concessions, considering the established machinery.Could GasGas Step Into The Premier Class If Suzuki Leaves MotoGP?
Following rumors of Suzuki’s impending departure from MotoGP, many analysts believe GasGas is a prime candidate to join the premier class.
Add that the KTM has serious issues, and the satellite team in particular has been absolutely nowhere over the past couple years. Last year it was assumed that Petrucci was past it and Lecuona never had it, but the vaunted pair coming out of Moto2 have picked up where they left off: out of the points. Granted, they're both rookies, but it's been a disappointing start by any standard.
Definitely less benefit if you never make new bikes with which to apply all the data you collect out of the racing crucible. What doesn't make sense is the timing, having just renewed various contracts etc.
Suzuki motor histories:
Hayabusa: 1999
SV650/V-Strom 650: 1999
V-Strom 1050 (TL-1000 motor): 1997
DR-Z400: 2000
Various 750s (GSX-R750 motor): possibly 2006, though it's hard to tell how much of that engine is an evolution of previous 750's
Various 1000s (old GSX-R1000 motor): 2005
GSX-R1000: hard to know, last motor update was 2017, but it was essentially an evolved version of the 2005 motor changed for emissions
Not sure about the 125 motor or the various cruiser motors...
So the only possibly new motor is the Gixxer 1k (even that was a dud on release, coming in well down on power to the Aprilia and BMW, and slotting in with the Kawasaki and Yamaha as underdeveloped also-rans).
Ultimately, Suzuki stopped trying to make class-leading bikes around 2005/6, choosing instead to iterate existing models and compete on price. It makes a kind of sense, but definitely feels like a company with better things to do...
The latest gsxr1000 had an innovative VVT system but for some reason, the bike didn't outperform or stand out at all compared to the other superbikes.
Maybe that was the final nail for them. It definitely wasn't a minor update and took some R&D effort. IFIRC the chassis and most other items were carryovers.
They really havent launched anything new in decades now if you discount the 1000. This new hayabusa...
Priller
Well-known member
Ah, thanks for the info. I actually went after and Googled the various superbike shootouts from 2017, and the Gixxer didn't place higher than 3rd in any of them. (The only exception was the useless Cycle World one that was just Japanese bikes and did the PR-friendly thing that CW specialised in and concluded, "They're all great!") It's funny how different the results can be, depending on the publication, with the R1 ranging from winner in one to joint last in others. Finding some commonalities, sounds like the Suzuki's VVT actually made for a very useful motor with lots of midrange (still down on peak power from the Euro brands), but the brakes were awful and the handling was comparatively heavy, especially at speed.
As you say, Suzuki may have put some real effort into it, only to end up with something middling and a bit off the pace. Having seen the R&D that would be required to regain their early '00s superbike crown from BMW/Aprilia/Ducati (depending who you ask), they decided it wasn't worth the bother...
Csbk 2021 champion was on a GSXR.
Probably a strong shout to win again this year.
It’s a shame what’s happening with Suzuki, the K5 was the bike that BMW copied.
Priller
Well-known member
Probably says more about the rider and team than the base streetbike in CSBK. Not that WSBK is much different...
It's funny, at the time the K5 came out, it was considered great but not special, as it was part of a continuous evolution from Suzuki since they started the 1000 in 2001, and so it was assumed that the next one would be even better in a straight line of progress. Then you had the triple whammy in 2008 of the credit crisis killing sportbike sales, BMW blowing everyone out of the water with the S1000RR, and increasingly strict emissions regulations that the Japanese brands have struggled with more than the Europeans.
It's only in hindsight that the K5 can be appreciated as the incredible package it was, winning endless club races and establishing the baseline for litrebikes that still matters now. It could be argued that it's the best 'pure' sportbike ever made, as anything after needed lots of electronics to work, especially on the TC side...
Winales_2017
Well-known member
It's sad to see as the bike was solid on non-HP dominant tracks, but I think they realize that financial uncertainty is too high to justify an arms race with VAG and the major Japanese manufactures: Honda and Yamaha. The Hamamatsu Team was the underdog on the grid taking on the giants with a long pedigree of championships in the GP class so it was amazing to see Mir deliver a championship this time around.
It sucks because that was a very forgiving chassis and with the right rider it could be a front-row bike. I don't know what will happen to thier slot, as mentioned they are signed until '26, but my guess they will just sell it or be an engine provider?
Marc looks like he is getting back into the groove, it's no where near his '19 spec, of course, but I think everyone likes seeing out there doing his best. For all the talk about Fabio and Pecco coming up and taking over... it's still Marc that remains who people talk about for a reason. He is just way more exciting to watch, podium was possible even at this level with a poor developed HRC so now it's just on Honda to step up their game.
Edit: Dieselgate sage strike again. I'm actually in the middle of reading Faster, Higher, Further by Ewing after having been at VAG during Dieselgate and its oddly serendipitous as they were one of the many implicated during that time but didn't suffer much if any consequences back then.
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/IQNOZQY4HRKVZM536OZLK5BMLA.jpg)
European raids over defeat devices in Suzuki diesel engines
Prosecutors in Germany, Italy and Hungary have conducted searches related to the use of illegal defeat devices that provide rigged emissions readings to comply with European Union regulations in Suzuki diesel vehicles.
www.reuters.com
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Winales_2017
Well-known member
Well, with Suzuki pulling out (TBD) it seems the rumour is Mir decided to not take any chances and secured the second HRC seat: I'm not sure how that will pan out, honestly I want him to stay healthy and the Honda is a body destroyer.
It's better than seeing him on the grid than not of course, but I really wish Yamaha had given him Franky's seat and send given Franky Dovi's work satelite bike. Seeing Mir on a violent bike at such a young stage of his career even after one championship makes me anxious about his long term prospects. Confrimtion still pending, but lets see what happens since the seats are pretty much all taken. Marini really should be out of a seat if it weren't for Rossi and Dovi should be shown the door at the end of this season as well for his own sake.
www.crash.net
Also, apparently Ducati (and others?) has been cheating with it's tire pressures since Michelin came back:
www.motorsportmagazine.com
It's better than seeing him on the grid than not of course, but I really wish Yamaha had given him Franky's seat and send given Franky Dovi's work satelite bike. Seeing Mir on a violent bike at such a young stage of his career even after one championship makes me anxious about his long term prospects. Confrimtion still pending, but lets see what happens since the seats are pretty much all taken. Marini really should be out of a seat if it weren't for Rossi and Dovi should be shown the door at the end of this season as well for his own sake.
Gossip: Pol Espargaro set for Honda exit, Joan Mir to replace him?
Pol Espargaro set to leave Repsol Honda at the end of the current MotoGP campaign after allegedly being informed that his 2023 option will not be exercised?
www.crash.net
Also, apparently Ducati (and others?) has been cheating with it's tire pressures since Michelin came back:
MotoGP bombshell: ‘Some teams are cheating the tyre rules’
Some teams are breaking MotoGP’s tyre-pressure rules to gain a performance advantage and so far they’re getting away with it
www.motorsportmagazine.com
I would rather see Mir and even Rins on Duc's rather than Honda or Yamaha (if they're not on Suzuki's).
TK4
Well-known member
MotoGP bombshell: ‘Some teams are cheating the tyre rules’
Some teams are breaking MotoGP’s tyre-pressure rules to gain a performance advantage and so far they’re getting away with it
www.motorsportmagazine.com
Winales_2017
Well-known member
My hot-take: Aleix to test rider, Mav takes Marini's bike and both Mir and Rins on an Aprillia would be the best of all possible solutions.
That works Ducati seat is already between Enea or Jorge, so who knows... I doubt Taka is getting resigned next year so an LCR seat for Miller if they don't move Ai up for that Japanese Honda money?
It's crazy limited in GP and the talent pool is deep, Pedro Acosta will likely get a chance at several works bikes so I forsee lots of 1 year contracts for anyone renewing.
Well, it took a while but it finally has been conformed, Suzuki is in discussion with DORNA to exit MotoGP at the end of 2022:
Suzuki News
www.suzuki-news.com is the premier fan website latest race news, imagery and videos from all Suzuki motorsport worldwide.
www.suzuki-racing.com
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