Privatize LCBO

[Irocian]

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We also sell Beer at a cheaper price then the LCBO. Price a 24 pack at LCBO and you pay 4x6 where you pay the 24 price no matter if its the 24, 2x12 or 4x6.

We also carry Guinness in the bottle or can both imported. We can only sell imported beer that the LCBO allows us to do that way they get our customers to their stores as they didn't realize that when we started taking their empties that so many would be returned and their beer drinking customers started seeing better pricing and the same beer at our stores.

We have been asking to sell more imports and wine and have refused over and over. Corner stores can't take back the amount of empties even one beer store takes on average Sunday. plus you can't have them near food as the bottles and cans attract cockroaches that we are sprayed every week and have to throw bottles and cans as they are filled with them.

 

[Motorcycle Mike]

WOW We are a monopoly??????? We are controlled by? THE LCBO they tell us we can only sell Beer yet they can sell Beer and wine. Please get your facts in order before saying The Beer Store is a monopoly.

Okay, oligarchy then... or whatever you want to call it. Bottom line is the beer store is privately owned by a brewing conglomerate that only serves to stifle competition. It's monopoly or oligarchy on the sale of beer should be dismantled and have every grocery store and convenience store and gas station sell beer too.

As for the empties -- simple -- remove the deposit on them and I will put 100% of my empties out on the curb during recycling day and let them take care of it. I have no reason to trash something that is easily recycled, and it is easier for me to put them at the curb than in the trunk and bring back to a store. Maybe deposits were needed to get people to recycle back before blue bins were common, but I think most municipalities have blue bins now.

 

[bigguy1]

Okay, oligarchy then... or whatever you want to call it. Bottom line is the beer store is privately owned by a brewing conglomerate that only serves to stifle competition. It's monopoly or oligarchy on the sale of beer should be dismantled and have every grocery store and convenience store and gas station sell beer too.

As for the empties -- simple -- remove the deposit on them and I will put 100% of my empties out on the curb during recycling day and let them take care of it. I have no reason to trash something that is easily recycled, and it is easier for me to put them at the curb than in the trunk and bring back to a store. Maybe deposits were needed to get people to recycle back before blue bins were common, but I think most municipalities have blue bins now.

The price of beer would increase and the selection would deminish. The smaller craft breweries would have a hard time staying in business. As for the empties, there is no way blue boxes would work. Unless you crushed the bottles. I would need 2 bins just for my empties, nevermind my cardboard, paper and other recycling.
The beer stores have a good selection. They do a great job of recycling and they pay a pretty good wage and offer benefits to their part time staff. Would a grocery store be able to offer that?

 

[Motorcycle Mike]

The price of beer would increase and the selection would deminish. The smaller craft breweries would have a hard time staying in business. As for the empties, there is no way blue boxes would work. Unless you crushed the bottles. I would need 2 bins just for my empties, nevermind my cardboard, paper and other recycling.
The beer stores have a good selection. They do a great job of recycling and they pay a pretty good wage and offer benefits to their part time staff. Would a grocery store be able to offer that?

All of that doesn't seem to be a problem in any region I've been in that have more open beer sales.

I figure I could fit two cases of empties in a blue bin turned on their ends -- how much do you drink in a week?!

The beer store has a good selection?! Maybe of 5 flavours of lakeport, bud, canadian, labatts, and a couple of others... I wouldn't call it a great selection. Local stores, if allowed to sell beer, could stock local brews. I can't see it being a big issue for the local convenience store owner driving down to Cool Beer brewery or Amsterdam Brewery and stocking up on a few cases. Hell, if the owner likes you he might even drive down to Mississauga and pick up some Old Credit beer... because if regulations are lifted private owners could stock what ever sells best or whatever they want.

I think grocery stores have the distribution thing figured out.

 

[bigguy1]

All of that doesn't seem to be a problem in any region I've been in that have more open beer sales.

I figure I could fit two cases of empties in a blue bin turned on their ends -- how much do you drink in a week?!

The beer store has a good selection?! Maybe of 5 flavours of lakeport, bud, canadian, labatts, and a couple of others... I wouldn't call it a great selection. Local stores, if allowed to sell beer, could stock local brews. I can't see it being a big issue for the local convenience store owner driving down to Cool Beer brewery or Amsterdam Brewery and stocking up on a few cases. Hell, if the owner likes you he might even drive down to Mississauga and pick up some Old Credit beer... because if regulations are lifted private owners could stock what ever sells best or whatever they want.

I think grocery stores have the distribution thing figured out.

Have you been to the stores in the states? Limited selection. Even at Walmart. You honestly believe that the corner store owner would drive to Mississagua to pick up a few 12 packs of a beer only one or 2 people buy? Maybe if the store itself is in Mississagua. Otherwise the answer is no. It would not be worth the persons time, mileage, wear n tear and gas to do such a thing. Next time your in the beer store take a look at what htey have. It's a lot more than Molsons, labatts ans a couple others as you said.

 

[Irocian]

Its Molsons, Labbatts and Sleemans that own us. We have been getting more and more beer's in and more small brewers adding but again the LCBO limits what we can selll.

When a sale of a product goes on the same beer the Beer Store and LCBO sell amazingly it doesn't arrive on our weekly shipment until the sale is over. They do this to try and get customers away from us. The LCBO uses tax payor money to promote itself that why you hear the ads everywhere.

The Beer Store has now added to its website www.thebeerstore.ca you can find your local store or any store and see the in stock product everyday. Now things can happen, like someone coming in and buying the whole stock of product and its won't show instantly its updated at midnight daily or 1 or 2 am but its every day.

As for empties my store alone pulls in close to $1500 every day or more. At 10 cents and 20 cents for LCBO bottles and 10 cents for beer bottles or cans you do the math on how many that is a day and we are ranked in the middle of the plus 300 stores. I've worked at ones that take it close to $3000 a day and its not fun. They are sometimes covered in i don't know what, filled with cockroaches and bird crap.

This is why they can't be stored near food for health and safety reasons. Stores in the USA are massive no where close to our big stores. You can't compare pricing as we have sin taxes on this kind of stuff that they don't have and when i was in NYC corona cost more then what the Beer Store sells it for and thats due to sin taxes.

The government tells the brewers what the minimum price can be every year. They only allow beer to be on sale for so many weeks at a time and how much beer with higher volumes of alcohol can cost at a minimum. Everyday new beers are added but that walls of the beer store don't get bigger so unlike the LCBO we have started building bigger stores and just opened 1 on Laird and Eglington ave thats the start of what all beer stores will look like in the future.

 

[LiNK666]

I saw a line for 30 minutes to pay at the local LCBO on New years eve. It's disgusting the monopoly they have. They need to build more stores, better hours and holidays etc...

 

[bigguy1]

I saw a line for 30 minutes to pay at the local LCBO on New years eve. It's disgusting the monopoly they have. They need to build more stores, better hours and holidays etc...

There were big lines at grocery stores also. Maybe people should plan a head.

 

[LePhillou]

I saw a line for 30 minutes to pay at the local LCBO on New years eve. It's disgusting the monopoly they have. They need to build more stores, better hours and holidays etc...

as i posted earlier @post 98

they doing a pilot project to have some lcbo 'express' in more grocery stores

 

[AGAVE]

This is getting to be a joke.
I swear, government employees must spend half their time thinking up new ways to strike and avoid work.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...ndly-dissatisfied-with-contract-negotiations/

 

[FiReSTaRT]

Why? Because they refuse a pay cut when their employer is making billions in profit? Wage freeze is a 2-3% a year pay cut. If you don't believe me, tell me what the gas prices were like in 1998

 

[mmmnaked]

The offer stipulated that in order for employees to continue progressing through wage grids, the contract negotiation would have to offer up savings elsewhere to offset the climbing wages. Im not gonna pretend to know the inner-workings of the LCBO, but I know that union labour tends to be horrifically wasteful... the government is telling them that if they want rising wages, they have to figure out how to save money elsewhere. I'm sure that wouldn't be hard, but it's easier to just threaten a strike...

Also, their employer is, um.. us. So pardon me if I'm not entirely quick to side with the workers when they're effectively paid out of my pocket.

 

[ToSlow]

The offer stipulated that in order for employees to continue progressing through wage grids, the contract negotiation would have to offer up savings elsewhere to offset the climbing wages. Im not gonna pretend to know the inner-workings of the LCBO, but I know that union labour tends to be horrifically wasteful... the government is telling them that if they want rising wages, they have to figure out how to save money elsewhere. I'm sure that wouldn't be hard, but it's easier to just threaten a strike...

quick fix, hire immigrants to fill the jobs

 

[FiReSTaRT]

The offer stipulated that in order for employees to continue progressing through wage grids, the contract negotiation would have to offer up savings elsewhere to offset the climbing wages. Im not gonna pretend to know the inner-workings of the LCBO, but I know that union labour tends to be horrifically wasteful... the government is telling them that if they want rising wages, they have to figure out how to save money elsewhere. I'm sure that wouldn't be hard, but it's easier to just threaten a strike...

Also, their employer is, um.. us. So pardon me if I'm not entirely quick to side with the workers when they're effectively paid out of my pocket.

Rising wages? With the terms being imposed on them, the wages would actually be falling, while the operation is still making insane profits. The non-unionized management could save a few bucks by being more savvy when dealing with their suppliers (there has been a scandal over it and nothing was done). That would save a heck of a lot more than continuing to pay these workers a living wage.

Bottom line - private sector is a big race to the bottom and the unions are the last bastion of the middle class. If they don't stand up for their members, we all suffer.

 

[mmmnaked]

Rising wages? With the terms being imposed on them, the wages would actually be falling, while the operation is still making insane profits. The non-unionized management could save a few bucks by being more savvy when dealing with their suppliers (there has been a scandal over it and nothing was done). That would save a heck of a lot more than continuing to pay these workers a living wage.

Bottom line - private sector is a big race to the bottom and the unions are the last bastion of the middle class. If they don't stand up for their members, we all suffer.

Im reading through the offer and unless I'm missing something, the sky isn't falling.

Like I said, all the offer states is that in order to keep progressing through wage grids like they have until now, the union has to offset it with savings elsewhere.

And doesn't choking suppliers effectively do exactly what the employees are fighting against, in your words? What's the difference between taking away the earnings of suppliers vs employees at LCBO? Either way, someone's losing a buck.

 

[FiReSTaRT]

Im reading through the offer and unless I'm missing something, the sky isn't falling.

Like I said, all the offer states is that in order to keep progressing through wage grids like they have until now, the union has to offset it with savings elsewhere.

And doesn't choking suppliers effectively do exactly what the employees are fighting against, in your words? What's the difference between taking away the earnings of suppliers vs employees at LCBO? Either way, someone's losing a buck.

Many of those suppliers are foreign and most of the money given to them goes abroad. Even with domestics, how much of that money really makes it to the people who'll spend the money in the community, supporting local businesses? The workers are told that they have to figure out OTHER ways to save money, while the mgmt will continue pissing it away to places where it does no good or take an effective pay cut.

 

[mmmnaked]

Yes many suppliers are foreign but many are also domestic. Not every retail business has to run like Wal-Mart, squeezing and sucking the life out of suppliers for every last penny. It's okay to pay suppliers fair value for their products.

It's also okay to pay employees fair wages for their work. Part time workers at the lowest level of the LCBO get almost $15/hr to start, climbing to $20 after just a few years. Again this is at the lowest level, for PT positions. Most others get well above 20/hr, and managers will easily make 60k and up.

I very much doubt the commoners would trade their jobs for positions at, say, Tim Hortons.

Wage tables start around page 77: http://www.opseu.org/lbed/2009-2013 interim ca printed.pdf

I see some very comfortable numbers there for plane-jane retail level work that requires almost no skill and no education. I'm not saying it should be lower or that they don't deserve it, but they're compensated head and shoulders above the slaves in the private sector.

 

[FiReSTaRT]

Yes many suppliers are foreign but many are also domestic. Not every retail business has to run like Wal-Mart, squeezing and sucking the life out of suppliers for every last penny. It's okay to pay suppliers fair value for their products.

It's also okay to pay employees fair wages for their work. Part time workers at the lowest level of the LCBO get almost $15/hr to start, climbing to $20 after just a few years. Again this is at the lowest level, for PT positions. Most others get well above 20/hr, and managers will easily make 60k and up.

I very much doubt the commoners would trade their jobs for positions at, say, Tim Hortons.

Wage tables start around page 77: http://www.opseu.org/lbed/2009-2013 interim ca printed.pdf

I see some very comfortable numbers there for plane-jane retail level work that requires almost no skill and no education. I'm not saying it should be lower or that they don't deserve it, but they're compensated head and shoulders above the slaves in the private sector.

I absolutely agree with every point that you have made in your post. With that being said, there's no reason to start bringing those workers down to the private sector slave levels either. It's not like the LCBO is on the rocks.

 

[mmmnaked]

Agreed, but just as the union representation in this latest negotiation only cares about the employees, the LCBO reps have a duty to the corporation and, by extension, the taxpayer. I'm sure if the union goons could have it their way, part timers would get 30/hr and full time staff would all be raking in 100k+ a year, but it has to be kept in check. Ultimately all those profits are coming back into public coffers to [supposedly] help everyone out. This corporation being profitable is a benefit to all Ontarians. And the more profitable they are, the less likely these obscene privatization ideas will come up in the future.

Alas, the threats of a strike are usual union negotiation tactics and will not actually come to fruition. I'm fairly sure those folks realize that they have it much much better in their positions now than they would in ANY other job, so they can only ask for so much. I don't think their wages should be frozen, but perhaps they should be making concessions elsewhere. I'm not interested enough to read the entire 70+ page agreement between the union and their employer, but I have a feeling there are many benefits, O/T pay, holiday banking, sick days, etc etc that can be put on a slim-fast diet. If their salaries are any indication, then their other benefits must also be miles and miles ahead of the average worker in this province.

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