Will the real Pierre Poilievre please stand up?

[Shaman]

The CPC's plan at least has some teeth. They're saying: "make it possible for builders to build in your municipality, because right now it's a cast-iron ***** to get anything built, you're in the way and you won't back down because NIMBY wins the day." It punishes them if they don't make it possible and actually assist builders to get housing built, and it incentivizes them with funds if they can prove they've actively worked with builders to get houses built. It's estimated that 20-25% of the cost of housing is currently wrapped up in dealing with the municipalities, to say nothing of the time it requires and getting a sizable amount of that out of the way will make a tangible difference.

Anything beyond that means the government actually funding buildings. As others have pointed out, the builders aren't like they were in the early 1900s, these companies have to show a sizable return for their investors and they are not going to build housing at a loss. If you get the government funding these houses a) you're going to pay for it and b) you're going to over-pay for it.

 

[nobbie48]

Was some pretty run down units in the place.

Some Ontario housing units weren't great either.

 

[TK4]

Anything beyond that means the government actually funding buildings. As others have pointed out, the builders aren't like they were in the early 1900s, these companies have to show a sizable return for their investors and they are not going to build housing at a loss. If you get the government funding these houses a) you're going to pay for it and b) you're going to over-pay for it.

Kinda like EVs...

 

[FullMotoJacket]

Every day on the news we're reminded that Canadians in record numbers are resorting to using food banks. Meanwhile, the Right Hon. Skippy Trudeau is vacationing in Jamaica at a luxury private resort (w. rooms upwards of $9K/night) owned by a family friend (and Trudeau Foundation donor). Sophie is going with him. No idea if her Doctor boyfriend is going along as well to keep the cuck from leg humping her while she's there. He's claiming he'll reimburse the government (to the tune of $160K) for the expenditures WE are making to fund this trip. I'll believe it when I see the invoice with the PAID IN FULL stamp on it.

Oh Canada, I stand on guard for me.

 

[PrivatePilot]

And the creeping specter of socialism rears it's ugly head !

I don't have a problem with socialism in many circumstances (I think we all enjoy our socialized medicine here vs the gong show that is the USA), but where does it end? The government could get into social housing for the masses, sure, but it would without doubt mean that the money for this comes out of the pockets of those who don't need that socialized housing, so are you and I and everyone else who is in a good enough financial situation (or already owns a home) and doesn't need it willing to fork out another $5000 or $10,000 a year in taxes ot pay for it?

The money has to come from somewhere, not out of thin air.

In reality, a well run trailer park doesn't have to be a blight. All it takes is guts from those in charge to set standards, no unlicensed vehicles, trash, etc. Have them borrow from the condo act. You don't own the land.

There are lots of trailer parks that are already run extremely well with an iron fist - look at some of the big company seasonal options out there. The issue is that they're only seasonal to begin with (which allows them to skirt some laws & follow others that would otherwise apply, plus is cheaper for the companies of course), but it can be done. But again, even in these sitations, if you're in the circle where you hear the chatter as I am, people are often ****** about the whole situation there as well - the parks are too strict, the rules are too overbearing, the fees are too high, they got upset because my music was too loud, they kicked me out because I got into a fight with someone.....they won't let you have a trailer older than 10 or 15 years at which point you need ot pull it out, etc etc etc.

Nobody is happy sometimes.

But I think tiny houses in general (be them RV's or whatever, even some man cave sheds and she-sheds are freakin nice now) could be a big part of the solution. There's a lot of people with big chunks of property in the burbs and rural areas who would gladly build some tiny houses to help supplement their own income, but right now, you basically can't do it due to overbearing zoning laws.

Revamping the landlord tenant act in this province to stop making it a miserble slog for landlords would also help. Unfortunatley things have swung so far in favour of tenants now that there's a lot of people who would rent their basements or their home (if they're ready to downsize or travel or whatever) etc who simply just don't even want to deal with it right now for fear of getting someone who moves in and stops paying the rent after a few months and then it takes 12-18 months to evict them, only to be left with their property destroyed and then have to start all over again. It happens, I've seen it first hand.

buy into a HOA area

Don't even get me started on HOA's. Do some reading about all the nightmares that they can bring including not even being able to change your front door on your house or paint anything without permission from the HOA. The whole situation is basically NIMBY on steriods.

 

[bigpoppa]

I was reading a significant amount of houses of the previous generations was heavily subsidized and build on artificially low, overstimulated credit by the post ww2 governments around the western world.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Every day on the news we're reminded that Canadians in record numbers are resorting to using food banks. Meanwhile, the Right Hon. Skippy Trudeau is vacationing in Jamaica at a luxury private resort (w. rooms upwards of $9K/night) owned by a family friend (and Trudeau Foundation donor). Sophie is going with him. No idea if her Doctor boyfriend is going along as well to keep the cuck from leg humping her while she's there. He's claiming he'll reimburse the government (to the tune of $160K) for the expenditures WE are making to fund this trip. I'll believe it when I see the invoice with the PAID IN FULL stamp on it.

Oh Canada, I stand on guard for me.

Do you think or political leaders aren't entitled to vacations? Do you suggest that if they are OK to take vacations they should go stay at the Super8 and eat McDonalds, especially if they're paying their own way? Do you think they don't need security? Do you think they should take commercial airlines?

Do you think Poilevre won't take vacations if he's the next PM? And do you think he'll stay at cheap hotels without security and travel on commerical airlines in cattle class with the peasants?

 

[FullMotoJacket]

blah, blah, blah

One word: Optics.

 

[Baggsy]

"In 2019, Parliament passed the National Housing Strategy Act. The Act recognizes housing as a human right, and commits organizations and governments to reform housing laws, policies and programs from a human rights perspective; and to involve communities in meaningful ways.
The Act calls for the “progressive realization” of the right to housing. This means Canada must set specific timelines and goals in its housing strategy that make tangible progress towards the right to housing.
It also means Canada must prioritize the most vulnerable groups and those in greatest need of housing while it works towards housing as a human right for all."
Housing is a human right

 

[timtune]

Do you think or political leaders aren't entitled to vacations? Do you suggest that if they are OK to take vacations they should go stay at the Super8 and eat McDonalds, especially if they're paying their own way? Do you think they don't need security? Do you think they should take commercial airlines?

Do you think Poilevre won't take vacations if he's the next PM? And do you think he'll stay at cheap hotels without security and travel on commerical airlines in cattle class with the peasants?

They don't like it when you hold up the mirror.

 

[Jayv]

Do you think or political leaders aren't entitled to vacations? Do you suggest that if they are OK to take vacations they should go stay at the Super8 and eat McDonalds, especially if they're paying their own way? Do you think they don't need security? Do you think they should take commercial airlines?

If i was wanting to be re-elected again and was looking for some help with the doomsday poll predictions i wouldn't be buggering off to Jamaica with the ex wife for Xmas. Maybe that's why i'm not a politician lol.

 

[FullMotoJacket]

If i was wanting to be re-elected again and was looking for some help with the doomsday poll predictions i wouldn't be buggering off to Jamaica with the ex wife for Xmas. Maybe that's why i'm not a politician lol.

You could hold up a mirror, but vampires can't see themselves in it.

 

[gsxr guy]

I don't know how a bunch of red seal journeymen that don't exist here are going to build houses, apt, condos, etc. We opened a new shop and run on a big Genny. Hydro one says we may get the transformer we need by next Christmas. But gtamers have the solutions. Lol.

 

[nobbie48]

"In 2019, Parliament passed the National Housing Strategy Act. The Act recognizes housing as a human right, and commits organizations and governments to reform housing laws, policies and programs from a human rights perspective; and to involve communities in meaningful ways.
The Act calls for the “progressive realization” of the right to housing. This means Canada must set specific timelines and goals in its housing strategy that make tangible progress towards the right to housing.
It also means Canada must prioritize the most vulnerable groups and those in greatest need of housing while it works towards housing as a human right for all."
Housing is a human right

We've had the right for ages.

You have the right to a high school education in your choice of disciplines.

After high school you have various options for further rights.

You have the right to a job with protection against racism etc.

You have the right to buy a car or alternately use public transit and save your money.

You have the right to eat in fine restaurants or brown bag it.

You have the right to save cautiously or invest at different risk levels.

You have the right to work second jobs and save more.

You have the right to choose a partner that is financially prudent or a party animal.

You have the right to vote for a prudent political representative or someone who lies nice.

You have the right to fix up a run down house to build equity.

Suddenly we have this new edict that says you have the right to use another taxpayer's money to fund your accommodation.

Pre lottery and when I was a kid I saw a nice house and commented on it to my mother. She said if I wanted something like that I needed to work hard and save my money. Now parents tell their kids they have to win a lottery.

True it's a lot harder now but how much of that is because we accepted free Trojan horses from the politicians instead of demanding responsibility?

 

[Mad Mike]

Build 500,000 of something at a profit of $2 each then?

Again, when the option exists to build 499,000 less and sell them for a price of $1000 instead, a price at which there is near equal demand and people who will pay that, and which keeps your shareholders happier as that profit is fast and cheap comparatively which helps your stock price, are you still going to take that far more difficult, costlier, time consuming, and far more painful path?

It's not a rediculous argument at all, it's reality. It's capatalism.

Again, unless we're ready to dive into socialism (Which is why it's called "Social Housing" when housing is built under socialism), and let taxpayers foot the bill for cheap houses, no, it's not going to happen.

It’s possible to build inexpensive houses, but when demand is for expensive houses consumes all available resources (labor), expensive houses will get built first. This will never solve a growing availability problem.

Tall condos can help, but not every family wants to shoehorn into 600sq’.

The urban solution is to do a massive rezoning of cities. Rezone all transit corridor properties to hi rise res, all urban subdivisions to a city wide standard lot. Waive subdivision fees and red tape on new builds. This eliminates the 3-5 year delay and $300-500k/lot of expensive work for developers/builders.

The suburban solution is to return to a mix of townhouses and Wartime housing. 30x90’ lots. 1200sq 1-1/2 storey houses with 850 sq unfinished basements can be factory built at $100/sq’. With basic builder grade fixtures. Smaller cities with available lands can fit 10 + homes/acre.

This reduces demand for trades, reduces costs for buyers, and increased density reduces infrastructure costs.

 

[nobbie48]

It’s possible to build inexpensive houses, but when demand is for expensive houses consumes all available resources (labor), expensive houses will get built first. This will never solve a growing availability problem.

Tall condos can help, but not every family wants to shoehorn into 600sq’.

The urban solution is to do a massive rezoning of cities. Rezone all transit corridor properties to hi rise res, all urban subdivisions to a city wide standard lot. Waive subdivision fees and red tape on new builds. This eliminates the 3-5 year delay and $300-500k/lot of expensive work for developers/builders.

The suburban solution is to return to a mix of townhouses and Wartime housing. 30x90’ lots. 1200sq 1-1/2 storey houses with 850 sq unfinished basements can be factory built at $100/sq’. With basic builder grade fixtures. Smaller cities with available lands can fit 10 + homes/acre.

This reduces demand for trades, reduces costs for buyers, and increased density reduces infrastructure costs.

Levittown - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Come up with a square mile of land and plop in 6,000 to 7,000 Levitt homes. Add a rapid transit route. Add water, sewage and power. Add schools and recreation. Will it work or is it Buck-a-Beer?

 

[PrivatePilot]

Levittown - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Come up with a square mile of land and plop in 6,000 to 7,000 Levitt homes. Add a rapid transit route. Add water, sewage and power. Add schools and recreation. Will it work or is it Buck-a-Beer?

Copied from the Wikipedia article on Levitttown:

"The Veterans Administration and the Federal Housing Administration (FHA) guaranteed builders that qualified veterans could buy housing for a fraction of rental costs."


So taxpayers footed the bill.

I'd support this for veterans returning home from the war, as was the case here, sure.

For the other 99.9% of society? Are YOU willing to pay for this?

Again, we return to.... "the money has to come from somewhere"....

 

[nobbie48]

Copied from the Wikipedia article on Levitttown:

"The Veterans Administration and the Federal Housing Administration (FHA) guaranteed builders that qualified veterans could buy housing for a fraction of rental costs."


So taxpayers footed the bill.

I'd support this for veterans returning home from the war, as was the case here, sure.

For the other 99.9% of society? Are YOU willing to pay for this?

Again, we return to.... "the money has to come from somewhere"....

These would be the VW Beetle equivalents in housing. Done on a non-profit basis would it even work? Double costs for profits and double again for government involvement.

 

[FullMotoJacket]

Levittown - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

WTF? The curbs are "cut" but there's no driveways in this pic. Carport of the middle house looks to be an addition.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Done on a non-profit basis

Who's going to work in 2023 for no profit?

Certainly not homebuilders. Even agencies like habitat for humanity struggle to get a handful of homes built every year with the few volunteers they can manage to find, and as I understand it, often the donor money is used to hire trades for some of the more complicated stuff, so again, for profit in the end.

Again, as I said earlier in this thread....we live in a capatalist society, with both the positivies, and negatives thereof.