Why Lane Splitting / Filtering is GOOD for traffic | Page 4 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Why Lane Splitting / Filtering is GOOD for traffic

If it's legal and there is a collision, who should be 'at-fault' and whose rates should increase?

Determined by the rules of fault determination. In insurance terms it might lean towards a 50/50 fault distribution (both have their rates increase). In legal terms it would likely fall more heavily against the motorcyclist, who it would be determined had not performed his pass in safety.
 
No matter how good for traffic it is... once u get cut off by some idiot in a cage you will get hurt. Avoid from getting hurt is one of the most important reasons why it is illegal to my understanding.

The HURT report found that lane splitting is sightly safer because other vehicles actually block red light runners and counter act motorcycle motion camouflage at intersections (not sure what the MAIDS reports findings were though).These are the only two certified reports regarding motorcycle safety. People coming into my lane and driving me into the curb has never been a problem unless I myself was preoccupied.
 
Determined by the rules of fault determination. In insurance terms it might lean towards a 50/50 fault distribution (both have their rates increase). In legal terms it would likely fall more heavily against the motorcyclist, who it would be determined had not performed his pass in safety.

What eventually made filtering legal back in the UK back in 2006 I believe was a landmark insurance related ruling over fault. Previously any accident involving filtering put all the blame on the filterer, thus making filtering a grey area legally. But in 2006 a ruling came that put the driver of the car 50% at fault, and all subsequent filtering cases were to be treated as 50/50 as default henceforth.

In that case a cage pulled a u turn from the slow lane across the fast lane and into oncoming. In the process he cut off a flltering bike and caused the bike to Tbone the car.

That was the watershed moment that opened the legal door to filtering to be 100% unambiguously legal in the UK with the disclaimer of 50% fault in insurance disputes.
 
For me, legality has much less to do with it than actual cultural acceptance (by the cage-driving public) of the practice of lane splitting.

In places where folks split lanes there's generally some critical mass of riders on the road, and, perhaps that's what needs to be done. Get enough people riding bikes (or using alternate forms of lane-splitting-capable transport--- two-stroke rollerblades and high-horsepower Segways, for example) and lane splitting will come about pretty naturally.
 
^^^talking about acceptance, a group of three (loud) cruiser riders tried to lane split today at a red light. They were turning right on the red light and there were about 8 cars or so ahead of them. 1st guy went through, 2-3 cars behind me started honking, the other 2 riders were intimidated and didnt go on with it.

Made me smile. Manoeuver was done safely but some people are thinking "hes skipping in the line mommy, hes baaaad"
Then at the next light their group re-assembled and they were arguing about it lol
 
For me, legality has much less to do with it than actual cultural acceptance (by the cage-driving public) of the practice of lane splitting.

In places where folks split lanes there's generally some critical mass of riders on the road, and, perhaps that's what needs to be done. Get enough people riding bikes (or using alternate forms of lane-splitting-capable transport--- two-stroke rollerblades and high-horsepower Segways, for example) and lane splitting will come about pretty naturally.

This is exactly what has happened in California - driver skill doesn't really have much to do with it. Drivers in the California Bay Area are worse than those in Toronto (yes, this is actually possible), yet people will still generally make extra room for me when I "lane share" in heavy/stopped traffic. There are enough motorcycles on the road all year round (and the CHP is on board as well, which really helps) that it has become 'accepted'.
 
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Yes, but before that can happen enough people need to speek up and make it an actual topic of Discussion not just here on the motorcycle forums but in general. It may take time like anything good, but most good things take time.
 
you also need to know a strong influential politician in the majority lead party that will bring up the bill for reading. Best bet would be one that rides, volunteer in their next campaign for everything from door knocking with them to working the phone lines. Hope they can sneak it through when there's a major bill to be passed.
 
Actually no, I didn't know that, after having read your comment. Let me clearly state my position then. It's not as simple as a yes/no answer. No truly thoughtful position really ever should be, when dealing with a complex issue. It's not a 'biased' opinion, it's 'my' opinion.

I would love to be able to do it, myself.

If the California model is followed,it could be done safely.

I know what you're trying to say here, but don't entirely agree..regardless of Cali driver's incompetence, I feel confident we can out do them in that area. Unfortunately. And I say that due to the next part of your quote below. California's model allows for far too great a speed differential, and regardless of whatever their safety track record may be, I'm positive it could be improved upon by taking out "half the speed limit" and instead making it 5-10-20 kph max depending on the circ.

Drivers aren't sufficiently attentive, are not held to a high enough standard of performance, and do not expect you to do it. As a result it is currently unsafe to do so.

Exactly, and because of this, a very low speed differential helps to support the beginnings of a recognition and safety track record of a new law/entitlement if we are to address your next quote below.. V

People who currently lane split and filter are generally creating a negative impression, that will make it more difficult to ever have the ability to land split or filter legally.

And by doing it SLOWLY..more slowly than anywhere else in the world, increases our chances by having it accepted/tolerated here. I really don't think most people reading ANY of these filtering threads have actually and actively envisioned just how SLOW 5 - 10 kph is! I have no doubt because they are used to seeing 40 to 120 kph filtering. If people would just try to get their head around how workable a filtering scene could be, and be done with relative safety and success (in LIEU of ******** trying to kill you..there are laws called attempted vehicular manslaughter) If, and yes I am saying IF, but we do have to start somewhere and with the right attitudes..IF we could get all the filterers out there right now to STOP doing it at such a fast speed, it would have a huge affect on addressing negative publicity and eventual acceptance.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...as riders, we are so decidedly our own worse enemy. The irrational **** the-world type of rider outnumbers the rational peace-oriented rider 1000 to 1 it seems. Certainly if what the numbers on this forum is any indication..


Any effort to obtain the ability to filter, legally, will involve petitioning the government, via your elected representatives, to pass a law that permits it. This, because extensive practice and case law has been built up, over the years, stating that it is not legal. There is currently no viable challenge to this and, in fact, recent additional laws have made the battle even more difficult. I don't think that anyone could be on this board for more than a week, without coming to know what my position on HTA 172 is. That doesn't change the fact that it exists, and is a real danger to those who choose to lane split or filter, even though it's killing a fly with a hammer for it to be so applied (as it almost always is when this law is applied).

This is good advice, but we have to help ourselves FIRST. If we can show gvt that we have the restraint to filter at slow speeds it will reduce the incidence of public outcry..and thereby having a far lesser chance of voting influence at the polls.
 
Unfortunately it isn't the first guy in this video that you have to convince. It's the second one, who is very unlikely to modify his behaviour.

[video=youtube;l09QYV29ato]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l09QYV29ato[/video]
 
Unfortunately it isn't the first guy in this video that you have to convince. It's the second one, who is very unlikely to modify his behaviour.

[video=youtube;l09QYV29ato]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l09QYV29ato[/video]

Another bad precedent waiting to happen.
 
[video=youtube;7dG-nnG2MTo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dG-nnG2MTo&feature=g-hist[/video]

2nd biker going too fast for traffic
 
[video=youtube;7dG-nnG2MTo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dG-nnG2MTo&feature=g-hist[/video]

2nd biker going too fast for traffic

While he was certainly splitting at an unsafe speed, the collision wasn't related to splitting. He was behind the pickup and in the clear, when he was hit.
 
"Unfortunately it isn't the first guy in this video that you have to convince. It's the second one, who is very unlikely to modify his behaviour."

Again...I can't agree with you here unless you were merely using form of expression..which pretty sure that's what you meant.
But if you literally think the first guy did nothing wrong, then your idea of what is acceptable filtering and my idea are still in two separate fields. Both those guys were FLYING! especially the second one. At the risk of oversimplifying, tell the cops to throw the ****ing book at them both really, but if they see a guy filtering at a walking pace them leave the guy alone. Nothing too complicated about that..

The example video above is WHY we have such an uphill battle to face for anyone hoping to get this law relaxed.

And my point has always been to try to inform anyone that jumps into the middle of the thread thinking/assuming, they know what it's about, and then condemning the idea, due to memories of actions like this above, that if it is going to be done, pick your places (above sure as hell is not one) and do it slowly (above sure isn't slow..the first guy looks like about 90 (probably 60 non GoPro) and the 2nd one about 120 (about 90 non GoPro). THAT is not what I condone and never have. And don't tell me you didn't know that, because you damn well do know that.

It is these high rates of speed AND PLACES LIKE THIS WHICH IS PURE AND SIMPLE ABUSE that piss off the other motorists AND pose the greatest risk of something bad happening.

I'll tell you one thing though...I ain't gonna keep repeating, I'll just copy/paste and refer to such and such a post in future to no-minds who think they know what we are REALLY talking about.

Since you have no shortage of videos on hand, how about posting one where filtering is done PROPERLY, and at about 10 kph max? Wouldn't THAT be more helpful to promote the message that is trying to be spread here? Instead of doing what you prefer to do which is (even though you attempt to deny it) stir the Devil's Advocate pot.
Honest question...why do you perpetually choose to post crap, that instead of helping, goes against the real message some of us are trying to communicate? You indicate that if it were legal you would do it too, yet only support cases for it to not be made legal.
And as needed, you spin your words in a feeble attempt to make yourself look innocent.
Please stop insulting the intelligence of some of us.
 
If you recognized the area in which the video was taken then you would know that the first rider extended the merge lane by less than 100 feet, where the lane is still essentially wide enough to accommodate two cars, let alone a bike and a car. He also followed me at a reasonable distance, while taking the appropriate blocking position, for several Kms. For these reasons I think that he could be the sort of person, who could be persuaded to modify his behaviour. I do not think that the second rider could ever be convinced.

I would certainly give you the video that you ask for but, alas, it isn't something that I have ever seen in my travels. I can't post supportive information, where I don't see any. Call it a plea for people to stop acting like idiots, so that there can be SOME supportive information to provide.

*EDIT* Yes, I know full well that this isn't what you condone. Unfortunately it's what people see. you, and maybe one or two others, are essentially advocating actual filtering. There are far too many posters here who seem to be advocating the type of behaviour, that is depicted in my video. They feel that they can do whatever they want to and that it's no one's business but theirs. I say that it damages the profile of all motorcyclists and makes the sort of thing that you, and those few others want, impossible to obtain. It's not crap. It's demonstrative.
 
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If you recognized the area in which the video was taken then you would know that the first rider extended the merge lane by less than 100 feet, where the lane is still essentially wide enough to accommodate two cars, let alone a bike and a car. He also followed me at a reasonable distance, while taking the appropriate blocking position, for several Kms. For these reasons I think that he could be the sort of person, who could be persuaded to modify his behaviour. I do not think that the second rider could ever be convinced.

I would certainly give you the video that you ask for but, alas, it isn't something that I have ever seen in my travels. I can't post supportive information, where I don't see any. Call it a plea for people to stop acting like idiots, so that there can be SOME supportive information to provide.

Didn't recognize..or at least not to that degree of familiarity. To me it looked like quite a wide lane, didn't know about the merge, but going in front of that car still seemed a bit aggressive even given the new info. That is unless someone else was behind that car being a tail-gating me-first *******, in which case, damn straight I'd do what the cruiser rider did. But NOT id this was just multi lane congestion already flowing at not a bad pace at all. Almost dream-like for GTA. But the 2nd guy, while I don't agree that behaviour modification might be challenging, it is not impossible if the cops concentrated on that sorta crap instead of the more easy pickings of some filtering slow enough the cop could pull him over practically by jogging up to him on foot. They always go for the easy stuff. (Not all tho, of course...there are some damn good cops out there with patience, pretty good ability to judge who is a threat and needs behv modifying, and who doesn't). Can't say they are in the majority though.

As for the vid comment...I would have bet you were gonna say that. I think that it is not because it doesn't exist, but because it is boring. Now that we have a purpose for such a video, hopefully someone will go ahead and post boring so that it can help the message here.
 
I quite simply don't have any video that meets your criteria. I see lane splitting and filtering fairly frequently, particularly on the ramp from York to The Gardiner but, as it always seems to take place at 50+ Kmh through slow moving traffic, and frequently makes use of the breakdown lane, it would appear to be useless for your purposes.

As i said, I can't show you what I don't have. I would welcome seeing video of such, as counter example to what I see on a virtual daily basis.
 
"it's not crap" - ok..yes I admit I was using the term (in that instance anyway) too loosely.

I have no video equipment and am not handy to the city anymore either, but there are a number of regular video posters here. Maybe if a few of them made it a mission, I'll be we could come up with some pretty good examples of the type of safe, practical, SLOW filtering that would better depict what we are trying to communicate. It would help for those whose native tongue is not English, at the very least.

Anyone??
 
I will make you this promise: If I ever get video of someone splitting or filtering in a responsible manner, I will most certainly post it.
 
I will make you this promise: If I ever get video of someone splitting or filtering in a responsible manner, I will most certainly post it.

I must say that I have never seen it. and my commute was from near Yonge/Sheppard to Bay and Adelaide.

I have actually done something similar to the 2nd rider in that video. a guy in a car actually swerved to hit me ( and did). I didn't fall and he bolted down the first exit he saw.
 
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