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These Toronto politicians

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nobbie48

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I don't know if the rain tax has been mentioned. If not here's the primer.

torontosun.com

KINSELLA: Toronto's overlords pondering implementation of a rain tax

A rain tax. Seriously, they want to tax the rain in Toronto.
torontosun.com torontosun.com

The hard surface would theoretically hit a 1000 Square foot bungalow at the same rate as a 3000 square foot multistory

Driveways will be punished as will patios so more anti-car.

We need a general strike.

Oh, and we were already told to disconnect our eaves trough to sewers link so the roof rainwater would be contained on our own property, a point that seems to have been missed.

Any bets on whether the discussions will bypass anyone not part of the NDP club?

Is April fool's day early this year?
 
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When you are a Sun reporter and you are trying to make Toronto council look like idiots, you write a news story that looks like That.
If you present the issue in a light that is not designed solely to make the council look bad, there is actual merit to this plan.
Paving the planet is a problem, particularly in cities. Basically all the rain water that falls on Toronto goes into the sewers, to be piped out into the lake... the PROBLEM is that millions of years of evolution has trained plants to drink rain water that soaks into the ground... which we don't have anymore, so we spray expensive treated drinking water on the lawn and garden and trees
This is not a new problem, nor is it a Toronto problem... and there are currently laws in Toronto to deal with it.... like running your eaves troughs into your lawn, and there is a maximum percentage of a residential lot that can be covered.
There is a "NEW" type of concrete, that allows water to flow through it. I betcha it's STUPID expensive.
It would be a lot cheaper for the city if we put the rain water back in the ground where it was meant to be... less sewers, less water treatment. We plant trees all over the place, that we have to send a truck out to water on a regular basis because not enough water runs off the pavement.
If they do this right, there MAY be savings in there somewhere (don't count on it being done right)
And just cuz...
 
bitzz said:
When you are a Sun reporter and you are trying to make Toronto council look like idiots, you write a news story that looks like That.
If you present the issue in a light that is not designed solely to make the council look bad, there is actual merit to this plan.
Paving the planet is a problem, particularly in cities. Basically all the rain water that falls on Toronto goes into the sewers, to be piped out into the lake... the PROBLEM is that millions of years of evolution has trained plants to drink rain water that soaks into the ground... which we don't have anymore, so we spray expensive treated drinking water on the lawn and garden and trees
This is not a new problem, nor is it a Toronto problem... and there are currently laws in Toronto to deal with it.... like running your eaves troughs into your lawn, and there is a maximum percentage of a residential lot that can be covered.
There is a "NEW" type of concrete, that allows water to flow through it. I betcha it's STUPID expensive.
It would be a lot cheaper for the city if we put the rain water back in the ground where it was meant to be... less sewers, less water treatment. We plant trees all over the place, that we have to send a truck out to water on a regular basis because not enough water runs off the pavement.
If they do this right, there MAY be savings in there somewhere (don't count on it being done right)
And just cuz...
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It's a tax on suburbia with larger homes. The money goes into the general coffers as a punishment tax.

The money is used to change street names and pay fantastic benefits to city workers.

The core with smaller rain allowances benefit from the better parks, better TTC service, better arts venues, High Park now a limited access venue to the elite.

It's tax grab. The existing home owner has no control over how much it rains.
 
Jay Alexander said:
The Sun is straight trash. Propaganda to people who The Sun wants their opinions forced upon.
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Ya, The Star and The Sun are Yin and Yang.

The concept of the tax is decent.
Overwhelming our sanitation system is a real issue. We keep building more and more condos, but do not upgrade the treatment plants. The sh*t has to go somewhere.

Ever wonder why they close all the beaches after a rain? Free flowing sewage into the lake.

That being said. I have zero confidence that this will be instituted in a fair and balanced way.
 
For all the carbon tax lovers out there, this is a great example where a punitive tax would drive behaviour.

If I had to pax $1/sq’ in annual tax for a non permeable driveway, the next re-surfacing would be permeable - gravel or cinder, permeable pavers, grass blocks - all available, all reasonably priced.
 
Mad Mike said:
For all the carbon tax lovers out there, this is a great example where a punitive tax would drive behaviour.

If I had to pax $1/sq’ in annual tax for a non permeable driveway, the next re-surfacing would be permeable - gravel or cinder, permeable pavers, grass blocks - all available, all reasonably priced.
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Neighbour up the street has a gravel driveway - been that way since the house was built, with no intention of finishing it. Good on him.
 
TK4 said:
Neighbour up the street has a gravel driveway - been that way since the house was built, with no intention of finishing it. Good on him.
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Sort of. In some situations, that results in a lot of deposits on the road that cause other issues. There are permeable solutions that don't make the road slippery.
 
GreyGhost said:
Sort of. In some situations, that results in a lot of deposits on the road that cause other issues. There are permeable solutions that don't make the road slippery.
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When I built my garage, I moved the driveway from one side of my yard to the other. I wanted the driveway to be good and settled so we had 6" of 3/4 crushed then another 4" of limestone screening.

Didn't have a problem with material washing on to the street, the biggest problem was weed control. If BIL wasn't a farmer, I'd be spending $100/mo in RoundUp.

This year we're trying to capture rainwater from the roof to be used for irrigation, and hopefully topping up the pool. Should save me about $125/year - peanuts considering the investment and effort but it will make me feel like a contributor.
 
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Mad Mike said:
This year we're trying to capture rainwater from the roof to be used for irrigation, and hopefully topping up the pool. Should save me about $125/year - peanuts considering the investment and effort but it will make me feel like a contributor.
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I had rain barrels for a while, they were a PITA - always overflowing and getting tipped over.
 
GreyGhost said:
Sort of. In some situations, that results in a lot of deposits on the road that cause other issues. There are permeable solutions that don't make the road slippery.
Click to expand...
That's part of the problem. Every driveway and patio is different. One could mean tracking dirt and grit into the house and damaging floors. Another creates road deposits that fill catch basins.

Another part of the system that bugs me is that this tax is after the fact. The driveways and patios are in and the roof area defined. Those could be very hard to modify.

To have it part of the building code where a builder / owner understands the implications ahead of time when they go for a bungalow over a two story is OK.

Poor public transit again. Where do your visitors park? In the core they can use public transit. Suburbia needs cars.
 
I am shocked anyone would take this article seriously in any way shape or form. It's utter rubbish from the first paragraphs...

'Bolsheviks', 'The Union of Soviet Toronto Republics', 'politbiuro', and the author loses all creditability.

The water collections systems in Toronto, and everywhere, are out of date, falling apart, and causing many issues. Toronto itself has been undergoing a complete program of their basement flooding remediation. They're currently building new tunnels to collect additional water and being able to handle the capacity.

The problem isn't the lack of maintenance (which it is), it's the fact that residents, businesses, and everyone is paving over their properties in order to gain more driveway / patio / recreational space / larger square footage houses / etc.

Previously, the soil would naturally soak up the rainwater to the point of saturation, and whatever was left over would make it's way over to the sewer system...not any more. Now these impermeable structures don't allow for this, and the water has to go somewhere. There's less green space to absorb the water, so there is more water making it into the system.

Said water bring with it: grime, garbage, oil, and a host of other contaminants into our aging infrastructure causing further damage and as others mentioned, overflowing the system and discharging unsanitary conditions into the lake and our waterways.

Mississauga has a 'levy' / 'tax' or call it what you will that gets tacked onto the water bill because the system can no longer sustain itself.

The people of Toronto will not accept higher property taxes to pay for these much needed repairs, so the politicians need to add various different streams of income to bring it in, or cut elsewhere to make up the shortfall.

Imagine (for fun / exercise) a 3000sqft yard with a 1000sqft home...that leaves 2000sqft of green space.

Add a 2500sqft home onto the yard, with a 500sqft driveway, and you have no green space left (I've seen it) on a single yard.

Where is the water going? It's sure as hell not being soaked up into the lawn...there isn't one! So it ALL goes into the water system.

Who pays for that? It should be the person that has caused this, and it was allowed to be done by Toronto that approved said permits.

When new major buildings / infrastructure is being built...I was shocked to learn how much of an issue the water runoff is. There's massive holding / drainage ponds that need to be build to make up for that shortfall. Now what would take hours to soak into the ground can take days because it's all collected in a central location to allow it. Drive around some areas and you'll see fenced off ponds that have no business being there...those are collection ponds to take all the rain / surface water from developments and allow it to drain and get soaked up into the water, or evaporated into the atmosphere.

It's a huge problem, and something needs to be done as we're literally 'paving paradise and putting up a parking lot'.

IMO this is very much needed, and long overdue. Just a matter of how they charge for it fairly.
 
The current city council has a tough row to hoe. Decades of 'do nothingness' are coming home to roost. Housing, infrastructure, roads, schools, libraries - all need attention and the city can't do it without help. Be that via municipal taxation or provincial and federal assistance. The GTA contributes over 20% of the gross national product and has received bupkus in return. I wasn't a huge fan of Olivia Chow before the election, but at least she and council are trying to do SOMETHING, unlike Kinsella and other noisemakers. Things didn't fall apart overnight and they won't get fixed overnight either but you gotta start somewhere.
 
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