Taxes on used motorcycle | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Taxes on used motorcycle

PrivatePilot

Ironus Butticus
Site Supporter
If you wish to get mad at something, how about this.
In 2000 the original owner bought the bike from a dealer for a certain amount and paid PST on that amount.
In 2005 he sold the bike for a lower amount and the 2nd owner paid PST on that amount.
In 2010 he sold the bike to the third owner and that owner now had to pay HST.
In 2015 the fourth owner had to pay the HST again.
That's the same vehicle being taxed four times.
And we just put up with it.
My wifes Marauder 250 beginner bike showed something like 9 owners (so 10 including her, and 11 now since we sold it) on the UVIP.

Yeah, It's BS that they've collected "taxes" on each and every transfer.

Up until a few years ago at least you used to only pay the PST (no the GST) on a private sale vehicle whereas only dealerships had to charge both, but then the HST came along and that savings went away...so private sale pays the same as a dealer transaction now.
 

Robp

Well-known member
Site Supporter
It's really simple. You buy the bike for $100 and the manual for $2900. That way everyone can sleep soundly at night.
 

slowbird

Well-known member
I bought a bike off a dude that was a CBSA officer. He told me before the sale that he has arrested people for less (or something along those lines) and refused to put anything but what I paid on the bill of sale.
What a boyscout. :rolleyes:

The taxes I paid was painful.
 

chiller

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Hello, back then I bought my bike from a private seller, he put the amount as $1000 although I bought it for $3000. I ended up paying taxes for the $1000 with no issue. I heard now I need to sign a different form so I pay the actual tax ? Or can the seller still put whatever amount for the value of the bike being sold.
funniest post I've seen in a while ... care to post any other personal identification since you've now admitted on a public forum that you've broken the law ? LOL
 

JTR

Well-known member
I bought a bike off a dude that was a CBSA officer. He told me before the sale that he has arrested people for less (or something along those lines) and refused to put anything but what I paid on the bill of sale.
What a boyscout. :rolleyes:

The taxes I paid was painful.
lol so write a new bill
 

GreyGhost

Well-known member
Site Supporter
lol so write a new bill
Not the best plan. If the seller got the letter from the MTO, do you think he would respond with anything but the truth? I don't know what the repurcussions are for being caught lying to the MTO, but I wouldn't want to personally find out. Especially for a few hundred $.
 

Knight

Well-known member
If you wish to get mad at something, how about this.
In 2000 the original owner bought the bike from a dealer for a certain amount and paid PST on that amount.
In 2005 he sold the bike for a lower amount and the 2nd owner paid PST on that amount.
In 2010 he sold the bike to the third owner and that owner now had to pay HST.
In 2015 the fourth owner had to pay the HST again.
That's the same vehicle being taxed four times.
And we just put up with it.
exactly like I'm the 9th owner of my bike that's a lot of tax money
 

Owen

Well-known member
Last time I bought used bike the seller made me a bill of sale. The amount was the actual blue book value of that motorcycle ... I paid taxes on that. I wouldn't suggest going crazy and claiming let's say $1000 sale on $7000 actual value, this might raise some red flags.
Awe, shucks.
 

Green Meenie

Well-known member
I always claim the actual amount I paid for the used bike, or even higher a couple of times. I support our Provincial Government in every way I can :)
 

Salos Dafee

Well-known member
If a used vehicle is swapped for a non-monetary item, I believe there is no way Ontario can impose taxes.
So I can sell you my fine watch for, say, $2500, then swap you this used motorcycle for your fine watch.

I have never done anything like that, but I have thought about it a few times.

I recall buying a used van a long time ago, and paying the full 5% PST (I TOLD you it was a long time ago).
After a few weeks, I got a letter from Ontario telling me I had not paid the tax, and they were going to come
and take the license plates off it if I didn't pay promptly. You might like my reply.

"I have at hand a numbered and dated receipt from one of your offices, proving that I paid the tax on this used van."
(I did not provide the number, the date, nor the address of the office. It's their business to know all that.)
"This is the very first time that I have reported the actual price of a used vehicle, either buying or selling,
and hence paid all the tax that Ontario required concerning the transaction, and I will never do that again."

And I never have.
 

GreyGhost

Well-known member
Site Supporter
If a used vehicle is swapped for a non-monetary item, I believe there is no way Ontario can impose taxes.
So I can sell you my fine watch for, say, $2500, then swap you this used motorcycle for your fine watch.
Technically it's tax fraud however you game the system. In your scenario, you just played the game differently than most. Whether you pay with cash, goods or services, you still owe tax on the value of the vehicle.

I agree that the current system is crap where for many toy vehicles, the government will collect more in tax than the original purchase price, but that's the system we've got.

IMO it's not worth the extra effort to buy goods to barter with. For motorcycles, it's much easier to just make a fake receipt (and the consequences are the same if for some reason the government decides to press the issue).
 

raginduck

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Most vehicles I've sold have been "as is" or "needs repair"

I've traded vehicles for coffees (1.52 on the receipt)... including a 60K car.

Never an issue... I've had to answer a couple questions, but nothing serious.
 

PrivatePilot

Ironus Butticus
Site Supporter
Trying to game the system for cars is a waste of time at best, and could attract unwanted attention from he Feds at worst - the government uses book values for calculating taxes due on regular cars.

So, the guy who bought your $60K car certainly paid more than the taxes on that cup of coffee receipt.
 

GreyGhost

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Trying to game the system for cars is a waste of time at best, and could attract unwanted attention from he Feds at worst - the government uses book values for calculating taxes due on regular cars.

So, the guy who bought your $60K car certainly paid more than the taxes on that cup of coffee receipt.
Sort of. You can game cars too, it just takes more work. You get an appraisal for a car as-is/needs repair. Use that to establish value on the vehicle transfer (MTO accepts certified appraisals as proof of value). Now I'm not sure you could get an appraisal for $1.52, but it wouldn't be hard to get an appraisal for 20K on a 60K car if you know the right people to talk to (engine unknown condition won't start, paint needs redone etc). Appraisers aren't paid to be mechanics, pulling the fuse for the fuel pump or ecu makes it a non-working car. After you transfer ownership, you fix the car, get it safetied and you are on the road.
 

raginduck

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Sort of. You can game cars too, it just takes more work. You get an appraisal for a car as-is/needs repair. Use that to establish value on the vehicle transfer (MTO accepts certified appraisals as proof of value). Now I'm not sure you could get an appraisal for $1.52, but it wouldn't be hard to get an appraisal for 20K on a 60K car if you know the right people to talk to (engine unknown condition won't start, paint needs redone etc). Appraisers aren't paid to be mechanics, pulling the fuse for the fuel pump or ecu makes it a non-working car. After you transfer ownership, you fix the car, get it safetied and you are on the road.
I went with the buyer to transfer ownership.
The 60K car was "as is" and "needed major repairs"... It was described as trashed to the lady behind the desk...
The receipt stated "1 large coffee"... The lady asked how much that was, 1.52 at the time.. and she charged him tax on 1.00
I watched him pay .13
I got a call... and I expressed my 'shock' that he was able to get it back together and on the road.
I've seen the guy a few times since, and the car... as far as I know... nothing else came from it.
 

raginduck

Well-known member
Site Supporter
I gave my truck to someone about a month ago.. and put "free" on the receipt.

I don't know what happened with it.. and haven't got a call on that one yet.
 

PrivatePilot

Ironus Butticus
Site Supporter
Duck, someone probably got their *** reamed over that one. What did it show for value on the UVIP? That's what he should have paid taxes on without an appraisal as Grey mentioned.

As for the appraisal routine to save taxes, first you need to find one of "those guys", then there's a whole potential can of worms there if the MTO starts to connect the dots on crazy low value appraisals showing up from the same few guys over and over again.
 

JTR

Well-known member
MTO only follows book for a certain year range. I'm hoping that my 02 stang falls outside of that range when I register in the spring, as I legitimately bought it dirt cheap because the p.o. spun it in the rain and it instantly became a 'project'. If they try to tax me on market value of a convertible gt, it will probably cost more than what I paid for the car.
 

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