Showrooming

[robertv19]

Forum Sponsor

Its not just price, and the return/exchange aspect, but many other variables to consider, the odds are heavily stacked in favor of e commerce.
A lot of times stuff I actually walk in to buy either isnt available or they dont carry. Went to two wheeled in Guelph to buy gear, their selection was (as admitted to by staff) pitiful. I was looking for a quality leather jacket for my size, they had all the mesh in the world, and a few pieces of leather, but all for Valentino sized dudes, none for ol big poppa.

I agree with the selection at Two Wheel. They used to be one of the best places around to buy gear. I remember being in awe of how much they stocked at their old location - of course I'm thinking back maybe 15-20 years ago now. Wayne used to be in charge of their apparel section - not sure if he his any longer - and if he is, he definitely doesn't seem that interested in bringing in much new stuff.
The person I spoke to the last time I was in there (last summer) also didn't really know much about the gear they had.
They are definitely more focused on new vehicle sales and service - plus they have Royal Distributing around the corner to compete with.

Rob

 

[J_F]

Jerry (I think is the owner) is a smart guy. He's grown the business organically, from a small strip mall storefront selling used bikes to what we see now. The current location used to be a racquetball/squash club so though he likely got it at a reasonable cost he had to do extensive renovations, n0ot to mention the recent addition.

He also doesn't appear to have much turnover in the full-time staff, as I've see the same faces there for many years which speaks well for him as a boss and also for the organization.

As a dealer they have focussed on 3 (relatively) small niche brands whose customers are more willing than others to spend extra on their hobby, which is a pretty desirable customer base, and adding Honda at this stage is pretty smart as their product range will bring in a different customer segment.

At the same time, the guy works very hard. He's ALWAYS there and on Saturday evening at the bike show he was still in the booth at closing time.

He certainly "gets it", and deserves a lot of credit for creating sustained success in a really tough business where so many others have come and gone.

thanks for the backstory, it's a good one
I'm a pretty reugular customer there, for gear and accessories

couldn't understand why other bike dealers are so terrible
and GP really has a great business going

maybe the other placess just hang out the manu's shingle and hope it works out?
the other exception being HD, very well capitized dealers

 

[mimico_polak]

couldn't understand why other bike dealers are so terrible
and GP really has a great business going

It's easy. Owner thinks he knows best and it's the customer that's wrong. It's the customers that are asshats for buying online and not letting him earn a living.

I mean ****, we all think we are worth more than we are paid...human nature. But as a business owner, and as @Mad Mike gave an example, either adapt, or die off like the dinosaurs.

The fact that there is 2 distributors for pretty much ALL of the moto gear coming into the country doesn't help. How the hell did they get so large? I assume none of the manufacturers want to deal (or can't) with smaller distributors. I'm sure there'd be a market if someone could break in and bring in inventory. Or bring in only mfgs that aren't already signed up.

EDIT: I think a member here (can't remember the name) started up a moto store last year...west end of the GTA if I recall.

 

[robertv19]

It's easy. Owner thinks he knows best and it's the customer that's wrong. It's the customers that are asshats for buying online and not letting him earn a living.

I mean ****, we all think we are worth more than we are paid...human nature. But as a business owner, and as @Mad Mike gave an example, either adapt, or die off like the dinosaurs.

The fact that there is 2 distributors for pretty much ALL of the moto gear coming into the country doesn't help. How the hell did they get so large? I assume none of the manufacturers want to deal (or can't) with smaller distributors. I'm sure there'd be a market if someone could break in and bring in inventory. Or bring in only mfgs that aren't already signed up.

EDIT: I think a member here (can't remember the name) started up a moto store last year...west end of the GTA if I recall.

Aren’t there 3 distributors in Canada? Motovan, Parts Canada and Importation Thibeault?

Regardless - agreed...this is part of the problem.

 

[Mad Mike]

Distribution is a low margin high volume game that requires a mountain of capital. The Canadian market is simply too small to support more than a handful (by the way, there are plenty of distys - Keystone, Kimpex, Maverick, Gamma to mane a few.), once a regional disty gets big, they will undoubtedly be a takeover target.

Large manufacturers will always try to have at least 2 major distys (i.e. no exclusivity) to keep them competing.

Distributors don't choke the supply chain or add cost, they make it more efficient and reduce the overall cost to the end user. If each manufacturer had to fund their own a national sales force, stock months of inventory, and ship direct to dealers your prices would be a lot more expensive.

 

[crankcall]

without distributors supply would be very difficult, sizes, colors, the shear number of filter and sparkplug sizes. Nobody coulkd support that level of inventory and expect to make it work.
And the old style of buying from the manufacture direct in Italy or France, shipping and minimums would leave no comparible profits.

You can argue both sides of this, and true "showrooming" in my mind is an ethical and moral issue . But people without handicap stickers take the nice parking spots so .....

 

[robertv19]

Distribution is a low margin high volume game that requires a mountain of capital. The Canadian market is simply too small to support more than a handful (by the way, there are plenty of distys - Keystone, Kimpex, Maverick, Gamma to mane a few.), once a regional disty gets big, they will undoubtedly be a takeover target.

Large manufacturers will always try to have at least 2 major distys (i.e. no exclusivity) to keep them competing.

Distributors don't choke the supply chain or add cost, they make it more efficient and reduce the overall cost to the end user. If each manufacturer had to fund their own a national sales force, stock months of inventory, and ship direct to dealers your prices would be a lot more expensive.

Thanks for 'splainin'.

 

[xrljoel]

Many years ago we owned a garden centre. it was well established and fairly successful.

When White Rose Nurseries opened near us (a chain store that sold cheap and would match prices too) we got our share of showrooming.

I had a lady and her mother come in looking for a chemical to kill something that was infesting some plants. It was a pretty rare pest and it took me about 15-20 minutes to identify it and find the appropriate control in the days before the internet.

I came back out, showed her the picture identifying her sample, showed her the correct control product and explained how to apply it. She looks at the price and says, "I'll just go to White rose, they're $1.00 cheaper." Her mother was uncomfortable and let her know, and I (not being a naturally occurring jack ***) shrugged my shoulders and said, "It's up to you." They did leave without buying the stuff. Service isn't necessarily valued by all customers.

Obviously it bugged me, as I can remember it like it was yesterday. But in the end, White Rose went bankrupt not many years after while we continued to thrive for many years until the value of our land was such that we couldn't justify staying in business there.

The old saying is, "Retail is detail" and it's particularly true for small or independent shops. The owner/manager and employees need thick skins, and have to be on-the-ball ALL the time.

When an owner/manager or employee starts saying, "I just want to stay in the back and do my work.", it's time for a change. I can't count how many times I've heard that from management people in bike shops. If you've decided that customers are a necessary evil or a pain then an owner should either hire a manager or close/sell before the decision is made for him.

 

[bigpoppa]

The old saying is, "Retail is detail" and it's particularly true for small or independent shops. The owner/manager and employees need thick skins, and have to be on-the-ball ALL the time.

When an owner/manager or employee starts saying, "I just want to stay in the back and do my work.", it's time for a change. I can't count how many times I've heard that from management people in bike shops. If you've decided that customers are a necessary evil or a pain then an owner should either hire a manager or close/sell before the decision is made for him.

This seems to be one of the more common misunderstandings, people think having/owning their own business will be less work,
but by all accounts/observation, it seems the work is actually MORE, the hours are longer, but so are the rewards, the hours might be longer
but there is way more money and satisfaction

If people are of the mindset that they are done when their 8 hours are or they want to leave their work issues at work when they are done
they should probably stick to the 9-5 job thing

 

[crankcall]

Anybody that thinks running their own business will be easy, less hours or potentially just less hassle has probably never run a business.

It can be very rewarding on many levels, but if you open a store front , have regular hours, have employees, hopefully have customers. Oy vey.
I did my decade in retail, brief time in manufacturing, and have spent the last decade or so in distribution. Anything has to be better than retail

 

[Klaatu]

Anybody that thinks running their own business will be easy, less hours or potentially just less hassle has probably never run a business.

It can be very rewarding on many levels, but if you open a store front , have regular hours, have employees, hopefully have customers. Oy vey.
I did my decade in retail, brief time in manufacturing, and have spent the last decade or so in distribution. Anything has to be better than retail

So True. I had a record/cd store for 20 years. People that have never owned a retail business have no idea what it takes. They have no idea about expenses, rent, staff, debit credit card machines, theft, the cost of goods (they think you pay $20 for something and sell it for $80) I enjoyed talking to people about music and bands, but I would have never done it if I was just selling shoes or something.

 

[GreyGhost]

In addition, we here in Canada have Motovan and Parts Canada that own and/or control all of the authorized distribution channels for virtually all bike non OEM related brands and this creates a very high cost structure and very inefficient inventory control processes. So it's no wonder that bike owners cut out all of the middle men possible and shop online instead.

I think that's the big problem with bike stores in canada. The distribution layer hasn't evolved and is functionally broken. That puts all front-line retailers in a bad spot. If the territory protection was killed, front line retailers could decide whether to pay a slight premium for faster service from a canadian wholesaler or buy from a US wholesaler for less money. That could collapse much of the price disparity between b&M and online.

Yes, the canadian wholesalers would be hit hard, but imo, that is better than the vast majority of b&m stores collapsing. The canadian wholesalers add no value, just cost to me as a consumer.

 

[MacDoc]

add in the banks ******* you over ....

 

[crankcall]

add in the banks ******* you over ....

undercapitalised is the # failure of small business.

Banks dont want to own computer equipment, welders, cars or even houses. They want to loan out money. Lots and lots of money and earn lots of interest. Guys will lease equipement because they cant afford to up front purchase, guess what a lease is? yeah its just fancy financing. Like a secured line of credit (its a mortgage).

Its not your credability they question, its your credit ability.....

 

[Chris-CJ]

I've seen some articles written about Amazon's product return issues. It is incredibly wasteful and destructive. Companies like Amazon force sub-retailers who sell through their online platform to offer free returns but their distribution network is set up to be efficient for pushing product out to their customers but not for dealing with returns - and then there's the whole problem of what to do with the returned product itself. Maybe it really doesn't work, or maybe it was the wrong colour, or maybe the consumer simply changed their mind. A lot of the time, it goes in the garbage. Incredibly wasteful.

I really think the best thing would be to ban free returns for online retailers, and if the economics doesn't force it, environmental and consumer-protection legislation should. Apply minimum re-stocking charges, and require the end user to pay the return shipping (and that's going to be expensive, if the vendor in question is in China). If the product really was defective/inoperative then eat the re-stocking and shipment charge but the only choice should be a replacement product - not money back. Can't decide which colour of sweater you want? Decide first, don't order three and return two. Not sure if you trust whether a particular product is going to do what you want it to do? Then don't buy it. I suspect the cost of re-stocking and return shipping would exceed the total cost of many smaller products, especially if the actual vendor is overseas.

Yes, I do buy stuff online now and again, but generally only for things that I would have no chance of finding at retail, and only for things where I know what I want with no doubt about what colour, what size, etc. Clothing? Never, unless it's something universal-fit.

which is why I never buy helmets online, a standard
"medium" by LS2 fits different than a standard "medium" by Bell.

 

[Joe Bass]

So True. I had a record/cd store for 20 years. People that have never owned a retail business have no idea what it takes. They have no idea about expenses, rent, staff, debit credit card machines, theft, the cost of goods (they think you pay $20 for something and sell it for $80) I enjoyed talking to people about music and bands, but I would have never done it if I was just selling shoes or something.

Which record store?

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

 

[Trackday]

I read all these threads and I see some would rather have every shop go out business and only buy their products out the US. Because they can order as much as they want and return what doesn’t fit. Or go into a local business talk to people who may or may not know what they are talking about. Get some education, find the right size, colour or style then go on-line and buy it. (Or maybe even drive across the border and pick it up there). My favourite line is always “corporate greed”. I find these people who always says this have no idea what it takes to open and run a business. Most often I find these are students whose mom and dad are supporting them, a government employee being paid by us the taxpayer and doesn’t understand where the money comes from. Or, some low level disgruntles corporate employee who hates their job and wishes they could get a job that is paid for by us the taxpayer.

I agreed with the adapt or die. However, this takes money and knowledge to change. And most often these small businesses will need large capital to make this change. Then there are the big box stores, however, I don’t know of any big box motorcycle stores unless you are calling GP bikes a “big” box store. If so would they not follow under the corporate greed. Charging too much and not caring about the customer? I don’t think so. Typically, what big stores have is parking which makes it easier to buy from then the corner store that has none.

Over the last couple of years, we have been losing motorcycle shops one-by-one and soon there will be what some really want none and only to buy online. Why because some say they provide great service? What services is that? You place an order and they ship the items? You can return anything they ship, even after you have used it for a few months? Better selection? Of course, yes to all the above. Let the B&M finally go away. But don't these stores employ people, people from your community? GP Bikes looks like a big operation with lots of staff. Even the little shop that installs your tires may have two or three people. But their prices are too high and the service sucks. It seems most know what they want, what they want to pay and where to order it from. And, they can do this without even talking to anyone (fantastic – don't have to deal with an employee that hates there job), or at least walk into a motorcycle shop try on the jacket. Then go-line and order it for clearly hundreds if not thousands of dollars less (even if the store will match the price – that makes the store crooks because they should have priced it that way in the first place), return it if does not fit or the wrong shade of black. Let all the motorcycle shops die.

 

[sid_for_speed]

I've heard a rumour that even MEC is having issues.

MEC is having issues because they sell T shirts for 60 bucks!

 

[TK4]

I love it when a squid shows up at a B&M shop to have stuff installed (often Chinese junk) and the front counter guy tells him it will cost X dollars, they can't guarantee the quality of the parts and then the squid gets bent about the price of the labour.
A lot of you can do it yourself and are prepared to take your chances, but some folks can't or won't.
Do you buy your groceries and then take them to a restaurant to have them cook it up for you ?

 

[MacDoc]

Its not your credability they question, its your credit ability.....

horsepucky .....they just want to fund a housing casino ...no interest in supporting small business which provides 60% of the employment.
Such a big contrast with Norway where any town with unemployment over 1% gets massive support for a small business to open.

Talked to a bank business manager - he nailed it ...."easier for me to lend you 500,000 than $50k."

If you don't own a house you are ****** ....and I will not participate in this insane casino game. I'd rather keep my staff employed.
35 years still have my first client and pay staff a living wage .... the only credit facilities are credit cards and you play the 0% offer game.

Banks forget they are chartered by the goverment and have responsibilities ...not just exclusive freedom to prey on customers.

We need one of these

Banking royal commission - ABC News (Australian ...

https://www.abc.net.au › news › story-streams › banking-royal-commission

1. Since the banking royal commission revealed greed and dishonesty at one of Australia'soldest financial institutions, AMP, the company has been losing ...

Australia banking inquiry: 'Scathing' report calls for industry ...
https://www.bbc.com › news › world-australia-47112040

1. Feb 4, 2019 - The Royal Commission - Australia's highest form of public inquiry - came after a decade of scandals that shook confidence in the country's ...

DIsintermediation is a fact of life for most industries buying material goods ....and even for those buying coding and design.

For motorcycle shops quality service with little or no stocked inventory and low overhead ( location ).

Acetech in Milton is a case in point...more business than he can handle and will generally match an online price.

Even Honda has been struggling trying to sort out a retail channel.

Making it all worse for small businesses is the insane real estate prices where businesses are forced out by rent increases.

Unregulated predatory capitalism does not serve the community. We have some lessons to learn from the Nordic states.

even Iceland

36 Bankers, 96 Years In Jail - The Reykjavik Grapevine

https://grapevine.is › news › 2018/02/07 › 36-bankers-96-years-in-jail

1. Feb 7, 2018 - Local news outlet Fréttablaðið has calculated that in the past few years the Icelandic judiciary has sentenced 36 bankers to a total of 96 years in prison .

Meanwhile try and support local businesses that provide good service and at least given them a chance to compete. Going to them to try something on and then leaving to buy online ......not on IMNSHO

Forum Sponsor