Riding an e-scooter in Toronto?

[nobbie48]

It would be a shame if some one who can not physically ride a bicycle without battery power are not allowed to enjoys the many trials with their friends and family

It's a tough call as to where to draw the line on equal opportunities. Should they build a wheelchair ramp to the top of Mount Everest?

Should all car manufacturers be forced to sell mobility equipped vans at the same prices as the standard ones?

Short people are disadvantaged if they want to be in the NBA. I know Mugsy Bowes made it but the point is few of us are capable of achieving everything we might want.

As far as the e-things go, most of the people I see on them could use a bit more caloric expenditure and we are creating a new set of future handicapped people through obesity.

We have to compete financially with third world countries that dump challenged people on the curb as beggars. When do we run out of money?

 

[GreyGhost]

Another kid dead riding an e-scooter. In Brampton, hit by a car. Less than 16 years old so breaking the law (e-scooters only legal for riders over 16). Tragedy for the family. RIP kid.

I have no relation to any of these people. gfm posted for information not to solicit donations.

Electric kick-style scooters (e-scooters)

Learn about using an e-scooter in Ontario and how to participate in the pilot program.

www.ontario.ca

Boy in critical condition after being struck by vehicle while riding electric scooter in Brampton

A boy is in critical condition after he was struck by a vehicle while riding an electric scooter in Brampton on Wednesday afternoon.

www.cp24.com

Child Hit By Car...Has Passed Away., organized by Paul Parhar

It's with the utmost sadness in my heart that I write this update...Mahkai passed awa… Paul Parhar needs your support for Child Hit By Car...Has Passed Away.

www.gofundme.com

 

[Jampy00]

Last week I saw a guy on an E-Scooter whipping up HWY 7, easily keeping up with and even passing traffic.
Tank-top, shorts and flip flops. No helmet.. Got me thinking. One speed wobble and he would be done for, 100% his fault he would also ruin the life of the person that would eventually run him over at no fault of their own.. I see the appeal of these things but I feel naked at times on my large, loud bike with gear and a helmet on..

 

[nobbie48]

Last week I saw a guy on an E-Scooter whipping up HWY 7, easily keeping up with and even passing traffic.
Tank-top, shorts and flip flops. No helmet.. Got me thinking. One speed wobble and he would be done for, 100% his fault he would also ruin the life of the person that would eventually run him over at no fault of their own.. I see the appeal of these things but I feel naked at times on my large, loud bike with gear and a helmet on..

A friend has one that will do 85 KPH. I read him the riot act (Unlicensed motor vehicle, no M license, no insurance) but he still occasionally rides it. I wouldn't be surprised if he let his kid ride it. Kid is legal age.

If my hefty friend hits a pedestrian and cripples them, the e-scooter isn't licensed or insured. Since it isn't legal his home owners insurance won't likely be interested in forking out the settlement.

Going to the extreme, I suppose those mini BMW / MB electric kiddie cars are probably illegal on a sidewalk as well. Some day an unsupervised 3 year old will go for a drive just like daddy and get run over on the street.

I understand the young offenders act. They have arbitrarily set 18 as the age where a reasonable person can see the future effects of their actions. By doing nothing, our politicians must fall under the dumber than a fourth grader rule.

 

[Baggsy]

Had one go whipping past me a couple of days ago on a pedestrian bridge. I was reading a book at the time, so it scared the bejebers out of me.

At least if one of the spandex warriors hits me at over 40 kph, I weigh more than the bike.

Might have to get me a lounging helmet for walks.

 

[GreyGhost]

Had one go whipping past me a couple of days ago on a pedestrian bridge. I was reading a book at the time, so it scared the bejebers out of me.

At least if one of the spandex warriors hits me at over 40 kph, I weigh more than the bike.

Might have to get me a lounging helmet for walks.

A DUI mobile or an e-scooter? E-scooters do not have a seat (legally). They may break your ankles and knock you down but they are far lighter and will inflict less damage than an ebike which weighs far more and carries the weight much higher.

E-scooters look roughly like this.

 

[Baggsy]

It had fairings and looked bigger than a vespa.

 

[GreyGhost]

It had fairings and looked bigger than a vespa.

That's just a normal DUI ebike that Wynnebag allowed. Those should never have existed. They are just LSM's without any regulation. Pedelecs should be the only e-bikes (boosts your pedaling input but no pedaling equals no power) and the DUI mobiles should be LSM's with license and insurance (or LSM's should be exempt). Changing the entire regulatory requirement (vehicle and driver licensing as well as insurance) based on where the dinosaurs are burned is beyond idiotic (but so is wynnebag).

 

[nobbie48]

That's just a normal DUI ebike that Wynnebag allowed. Those should never have existed. They are just LSM's without any regulation. Pedelecs should be the only e-bikes (boosts your pedaling input but no pedaling equals no power) and the DUI mobiles should be LSM's with license and insurance (or LSM's should be exempt). Changing the entire regulatory requirement (vehicle and driver licensing as well as insurance) based on where the dinosaurs are burned is beyond idiotic (but so is wynnebag).

We were walking down the Yonge Street sidewalk at noon on a nice sunny day along with a lot of other people. An obese person was trying to weave between the pedestrians with one of the Vespa looking things. The combined weight was probably in the range of 500 pounds and the rider was struggling with control. If they hit a petite person it could be serious or fatal.

This whole e-everything that Wynne spawned is a nightmare as new variants emerge. There are the Vespa style, kick scooter style, ones that look like crotch rockets, mini-Goldwings, hoverboards, Segways. There are also ICE powered bicycle conversions.

Regulations vary by city, province and country. Training is nil as is insurance.

The police could theoretically do more but they are as confused as everyone else. Did the rider bypass the governor?

Recently, riding these things, a young lady was killed in Oshawa and the other day a kid in Brampton. How many people have to die before these things get regulated?

 

[GreyGhost]

We were walking down the Yonge Street sidewalk at noon on a nice sunny day along with a lot of other people. An obese person was trying to weave between the pedestrians with one of the Vespa looking things. The combined weight was probably in the range of 500 pounds and the rider was struggling with control. If they hit a petite person it could be serious or fatal.

This whole e-everything that Wynne spawned is a nightmare as new variants emerge. There are the Vespa style, kick scooter style, ones that look like crotch rockets, mini-Goldwings, hoverboards, Segways. There are also ICE powered bicycle conversions.

Regulations vary by city, province and country. Training is nil as is insurance.

The police could theoretically do more but they are as confused as everyone else. Did the rider bypass the governor?

Recently, riding these things, a young lady was killed in Oshawa and the other day a kid in Brampton. How many people have to die before these things get regulated?

To be fair, many devices on your list are illegal on public property and not wynnebags fault (hover boards and segways). She approved the Vespas and crotch rockets which was a terrible idea. She set max bike weight at 120 kg. Wtf. That by definition is impossible to pedal even if it had a functional drivetrain (which they for all intents and purposed dont). Max weight shpuld have been closer ro 40kg. That would eliminate most current dui mobiles and leave you with pedelecs.

Escooters were allowed by douggie. Rider cannot be less than 16. Two have died recently. Both were under 16 and therefore illegal. Oshawa one was on sidewalk (illegal).

 

[backmarkerducati]

A rethink is more than due.

• Pedal assist bicycle with a max weight of 40 kg and a max assist speed of 25 kph. Not many normal people can cruise around on a bicycle at 25 kph so why should an assisted bicycle be the better part of 40 kph (or more if modified)? Pedals HAVE TO WORK! Maybe a throttle ban?
• Non-assist like a Segway or scooter (not fake Vespa DWI class, the kid style) should be 20 kph.
• All of the above should have to follow adult bicycle rules, ie no sidewalks etc.
• Mobility scooters electric wheelchairs like they are now.
• Vehicle over 40 kg, over 25 kph, should follow the limited speed motorcycle rules. This covers the DWI/Welfare Hogs.

Give warning of the rule changes and then give a grace period with a warning blitz and then drop the hammer. The longer we wait to clean up the mess the bigger the mess will be. The technology and ability has increased significantly since the first e-bike (or whatever) rules were put in place and the rules are now completely out of date.

 

[GreyGhost]

A rethink is more than due.

• Pedal assist bicycle with a max weight of 40 kg and a max assist speed of 25 kph. Not many normal people can cruise around on a bicycle at 25 kph so why should an assisted bicycle be the better part of 40 kph (or more if modified)? Pedals HAVE TO WORK! Maybe a throttle ban?
• Non-assist like a Segway or scooter (not fake Vespa DWI class, the kid style) should be 20 kph.
• All of the above should have to follow adult bicycle rules, ie no sidewalks etc.
• Mobility scooters electric wheelchairs like they are now.
• Vehicle over 40 kg, over 25 kph, should follow the low speed vehicle pilot rules. This covers the DWI/Welfare Hogs.

Low-speed vehicle pilot program

Learn about using a low-speed vehicle in Ontario.

www.ontario.ca

Give warning of the rule changes and then give a grace period with a warning blitz and then drop the hammer. The longer we wait to clean up the mess the bigger the mess will be. The technology and ability has increased significantly since the first e-bike (or whatever) rules were put in place and the rules are now completely out of date.

They were completely out of date day one. I wonder how much Emmo paid to have a 120kg limit set? There should also be some rule to ensure pedals are functional, not just attached. A test as simple as being able to pedal to 20km/h (any rider will do) would eliminate almost every current dui mobile. Cranks behind your hips that are hilariously short makes peddling even a few feet almost impossible. They fit the definition wynnebag wanted which is an overweight dui mobile.

 

[backmarkerducati]

While the original rules were very short sighted but to be fair I know a few people that had early bicycle versions back then and they are all significantly over 40 kg, around 60 kg+. The DWI hogs at the time had lead acid batteries, the range was very limited and even more so if you hit 35 kph for any significant time, if you could even hit it. Not arguing they did not get it wrong and things like the pedals on the DWI Hogs show how the rules were gamed but the technology between now and then is also night and day different, anything put in place then would need to be revised now.

Fast forward to today and we have lithium batteries, lighter more powerful motors etc. Time to update, I don't see much action at Queen's Park these days to do so.

 

[GreyGhost]

I hazard a guess that there are more voters that shelled out $1000 plus for a dui mobile (especially those on a limited income) than there are voters that would actively applaud the change. Advocates would want a buyback with our money. Now, maybe there is a compromise where you pass it now but it comes in effect in 5 years. Most of the current stock of duimobiles will be dead by then and they could force stores to disclose the impending deadline (essentially killing the stores).

While the original rules were very short sighted but to be fair I know a few people that had early bicycle versions back then and they are all significantly over 40 kg, around 60 kg+. The DWI hogs at the time had lead acid batteries, the range was very limited and even more so if you hit 35 kph for any significant time, if you could even hit it. Not arguing they did not get it wrong and things like the pedals on the DWI Hogs show how the rules were gamed but the technology between now and then is also night and day different, anything put in place then would need to be revised now.

Fast forward to today and we have lithium batteries, lighter more powerful motors etc. Time to update, I don't see much action at Queen's Park these days to do so.

 

[backmarkerducati]

I hazard a guess that there are more voters that shelled out $1000 plus for a dui mobile (especially those on a limited income) than there are voters that would actively applaud the change. Advocates would want a buyback with our money. Now, maybe there is a compromise where you pass it now but it comes in effect in 5 years. Most of the current stock of duimobiles will be dead by then and they could force stores to disclose the impending deadline (essentially killing the stores).

Yes they would need to give a heads up to the coming change and I would be OK for five years and I agree the way these things are maintained a five year lifespan is about it. Stores will need to pivot to supported products like pedal assist bicycles or to selling the current units as limited speed motorcycles. That last one could actually be a boom as they can sell better products that are no longer faking the current rules...

The longer we wait as a province the worst it all gets and the harder it will be to fix it.

 

[GreyGhost]

Yes they would need to give a heads up to the coming change and I would be OK for five years and I agree the way these things are maintained a five year lifespan is about it. Stores will need to pivot to supported products like pedal assist bicycles or to selling the current units as limited speed motorcycles. That last one could actually be a boom as they can sell better products that are no longer faking the current rules...

The longer we wait as a province the worst it all gets and the harder it will be to fix it.

I would be excited if that improved the pedelec market. There are some really nice bikes using bosch/yamaha drives in the 5k+ market. Having a competent pedelec market at 1-2k opens up a commute for lots of people. Save some money on the frame as you can get away with it being portly and get an honest ~50 km range at 25 km/h. That would be the fastest way around the city for 99% of the population (assuming they were willing to brave the streets).

 

[nobbie48]

Put a licence plate on any of them and add insurance. 90% will disappear. Until lthe late 1960's insurance was optional on cars. They changed that. I haven't researched insurance for any e-bike variant. Is it available?

In the UK an underaged kid got killed thanks to a friend that used his father's account to access a rental one, similar to the one in Oshawa.

 

[GreyGhost]

Put a licence plate on any of them and add insurance. 90% will disappear. Until lthe late 1960's insurance was optional on cars. They changed that. I haven't researched insurance for any e-bike variant. Is it available?

In the UK an underaged kid got killed thanks to a friend that used his father's account to access a rental one, similar to the one in Oshawa.

I haven't seen an available insurance product. I think you are correct, if left to private sector to provide insurance, they may as well not exist as insurance will make them non-viable. If government provided a plate plus 50k in liability insurance for ~$100 a year, they remain viable. That also cleans up what is probably rampant theft as more and more police are running alpr.

 

[nobbie48]

I haven't seen an available insurance product. I think you are correct, if left to private sector to provide insurance, they may as well not exist as insurance will make them non-viable. If government provided a plate plus 50k in liability insurance for ~$100 a year, they remain viable. That also cleans up what is probably rampant theft as more and more police are running alpr.

I was quoted $1000 for Honda Ruckus, about the same risk vehicle.

 

[Pegassus]

$25,000 and or up to six months in prison is BS

It is ********, if criminals robbing stores don't get that punishment what makes you think a lady riding an e-scooter will? It won't happen.