Riding an e-scooter in Toronto? | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Riding an e-scooter in Toronto?

GreyGhost said:
It will be interesting to see how injuries in those circumstance play out. If you were riding a bicycle, your home insurance liability coverage should cover you. If you are riding an unlicensed motor vehicle, I expect insurance will tell you you're on your own. Expensive lesson in being an ass.
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Someone has to die, preferably several, before the politicians do anything. They'll start with a ten year study.

How about the last registered owner gets the judgement in the case of damages or injuries? That could be the owner of the shop that sold the thing.

Two simple steps to build upon would be an operators card similar to the boating one. The boating one has little to do with actual techniques but rather marine laws. A person can't plead ignorance. Same with e-anythings.

Secondly a permanent licence plate should be required.

If the politicians think the liabilities are negligible let them sell insurance for $50 a year and make a killing.

P.S. If the eco warriors are so adamant about saving the planet why aren't they pushing pedal bikes. Zero emissions, 90% recyclable, obesity fighting. Most E things are toys for lazy people.
 
GreyGhost said:
Yup. We are talking about the same thing. This one does 56 mph if your stones dont get caught in the tire.

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Saw a group of these in Little Italy a couple weeks ago.. full on bike gear and zipping in and out of sidewalks... I am sensing there is a forum somewhere that offers group rides (just like us) in the DT core...

Another instance was when my wife and I was on Queen St/Lesileville... we were walking our bikes on the sidewalk and one zoomed right by us... I assume even at 30km/h... when in collision.. this thing can set both the rider and object being hit in the flying motion.
 
nobbie48 said:
Someone has to die, preferably several, before the politicians do anything. They'll start with a ten year study.

How about the last registered owner gets the judgement in the case of damages or injuries? That could be the owner of the shop that sold the thing.

Two simple steps to build upon would be an operators card similar to the boating one. The boating one has little to do with actual techniques but rather marine laws. A person can't plead ignorance. Same with e-anythings.

Secondly a permanent licence plate should be required.

If the politicians think the liabilities are negligible let them sell insurance for $50 a year and make a killing.

P.S. If the eco warriors are so adamant about saving the planet why aren't they pushing pedal bikes. Zero emissions, 90% recyclable, obesity fighting. Most E things are toys for lazy people.
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Sadly.. I agree with you... many have to seriously get injured and/or die before the surviving human beings does something about it.

I was following a dude on Instagram (Toronto.. may be on here too) that gives some really valid points about eBikes/eScooters/eOneWheeler/e-Anything... but one that really struck out is.. you can have a person who is banned/suspended license and by-law they can't operate a motor vehicle... and that same person now can get on the road with a e-Whatever.. WITHOUT a license, hit someone and no one is really responsible... no license.. no insurance...

Now I do clarify.. for eBikes.. (as do the guy on Instagram)... does not include stuff like Zero Motorcycles or Damon Motorcycles... as those require a license and insurance to operate.

And I second @nobbie48 -- if they don't do license.. they should at least do something similar to a boating course to at least get people to understnad what they are on the hook for...

AND.. have plates so police can actually catch them if they go over a certain speed or riding dangerously.. (coz they do.. I was on Kingston pulling out of my street and an EMMO with passenger and a tow was speeding past me.)

May be have mandatory insurance as well on these things.. so the guy getting hit will be compensated for one.. and in turn.. the city can tax these insurance companies.
 
Homme007 said:
Sadly.. I agree with you... many have to seriously get injured and/or die before the surviving human beings does something about it.

I was following a dude on Instagram (Toronto.. may be on here too) that gives some really valid points about eBikes/eScooters/eOneWheeler/e-Anything... but one that really struck out is.. you can have a person who is banned/suspended license and by-law they can't operate a motor vehicle... and that same person now can get on the road with a e-Whatever.. WITHOUT a license, hit someone and no one is really responsible... no license.. no insurance...

Now I do clarify.. for eBikes.. (as do the guy on Instagram)... does not include stuff like Zero Motorcycles or Damon Motorcycles... as those require a license and insurance to operate.

And I second @nobbie48 -- if they don't do license.. they should at least do something similar to a boating course to at least get people to understnad what they are on the hook for...

AND.. have plates so police can actually catch them if they go over a certain speed or riding dangerously.. (coz they do.. I was on Kingston pulling out of my street and an EMMO with passenger and a tow was speeding past me.)

May be have mandatory insurance as well on these things.. so the guy getting hit will be compensated for one.. and in turn.. the city can tax these insurance companies.
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You are prohibited from operating an e-bike if your driver's license is suspended for impaired problem is police don't enforce people don't care

Sent from the future
 
Homme007 said:
Sadly.. I agree with you... many have to seriously get injured and/or die before the surviving human beings does something about it.

I was following a dude on Instagram (Toronto.. may be on here too) that gives some really valid points about eBikes/eScooters/eOneWheeler/e-Anything... but one that really struck out is.. you can have a person who is banned/suspended license and by-law they can't operate a motor vehicle... and that same person now can get on the road with a e-Whatever.. WITHOUT a license, hit someone and no one is really responsible... no license.. no insurance...

Now I do clarify.. for eBikes.. (as do the guy on Instagram)... does not include stuff like Zero Motorcycles or Damon Motorcycles... as those require a license and insurance to operate.

And I second @nobbie48 -- if they don't do license.. they should at least do something similar to a boating course to at least get people to understnad what they are on the hook for...

AND.. have plates so police can actually catch them if they go over a certain speed or riding dangerously.. (coz they do.. I was on Kingston pulling out of my street and an EMMO with passenger and a tow was speeding past me.)

May be have mandatory insurance as well on these things.. so the guy getting hit will be compensated for one.. and in turn.. the city can tax these insurance companies.
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Adding to it I would also include handicap / mobility wheelchairs in this.

If the person qualifies for the scoot as they would for handicap plates their plate is free as is the test. If needed the test can be administered at the persons home or any place of convenience or online.

I don't know if some of the handicap wheelchair riders are suicidal but they chose to drive on the street where there are sidewalks. Cities have spent millions cutting curbs at intersections to facilitate wheelchairs and they ignore them.

One was killed on the QEW a few years back around St Catherines IIRC. I've seen the scoots used as battering rams to open doors and they go fast enough to seriously hurt pedestrians if operated carelessly. Keep in mind that some of the operators may be experiencing a degree of dementia and they need to be protected from themselves.

Re the DUI convictees, it is my understanding they are banned from operating any motorized vehicle. That includes e-anythings, power boats, sailboats, airplanes, etc because they are not powered by muscle . "But it's electric sob, sob, sob." It's still a motor. Canoes and rowboats are OK. Horses I'm not sure.
 
Homme007 said:
sad sad news.. prolly need to know more about what happened....

Woman riding e-scooter fatally hit by pick-up truck in Oshawa
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I saw that one. E-scooters are legal in Oshawa but one of the conditions (in caps and bold) is no riding on the sidewalk. In the event of a civil lawsuit, I wonder how much that adjusts compensation as e-scooter rider was partly at fault. If they were on the road (and travelling the right direction), it's hard for the truck to be anything other than 100% at fault.
 
GreyGhost said:
I saw that one. E-scooters are legal in Oshawa but one of the conditions (in caps and bold) is no riding on the sidewalk. In the event of a civil lawsuit, I wonder how much that adjusts compensation as e-scooter rider was partly at fault. If they were on the road (and travelling the right direction), it's hard for the truck to be anything other than 100% at fault.
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wow.. I didn't know that these "E" laws are down the the municipality level... I thought its like provincial...

I am guessing what happened now.. but I am guessing.. the truck was making a right.. and was looking left for on-coming traffic.. person on scooter is coming from the right side.. when truck saw no traffic on the left.. he gunned in.. and smashed... hit the girl on the right as he comes out... this is sad.. really sad news.. Truth is.. how it happened don't matter much anymore...

If anything... we definitely need more rules and regulations around anything electric on the road.
 
Homme007 said:
wow.. I didn't know that these "E" laws are down the the municipality level... I thought its like provincial...

I am guessing what happened now.. but I am guessing.. the truck was making a right.. and was looking left for on-coming traffic.. person on scooter is coming from the right side.. when truck saw no traffic on the left.. he gunned in.. and smashed... hit the girl on the right as he comes out... this is sad.. really sad news.. Truth is.. how it happened don't matter much anymore...

If anything... we definitely need more rules and regulations around anything electric on the road.
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Province allowed e-scooters if specifically adopted by municipality. Oshawa has adopted it. Many places (including Toronto) say they aren't going to. Lots of e-scooters in toronto are eligible for $6000 chat with officers for an unlicensed, uninsured motor vehicle. I don't think they realize the size of the hammer and think they are harmless fun.

EDIT:

RIP Kaitlyn Pollock. I didn't know her but stumbled across this.

www.gofundme.com

The Pollock Family, organized by Luchka Float

We are reaching out to you today to ask for your support for The Pollock family during this difficult … Luchka Float needs your support for The Pollock Family
www.gofundme.com
 
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It sounds like the province gave the OK but the municipalities have to second the motion within their borders.

Since there are no licenses required in the approving municipalities THE RIDERS DON'T HAVE TO READ A SINGLE WORD ON LEGALITIES OR RESPONSIBILITIES. It gives the impression that the things are 100% harmless.

Is a rider going from Oshawa to Whitby going to stop and read the Whitby laws and possibly walk the bike to Ajax where the Ajax laws are reviewed?

The continued stupidity of the province to ignore the e-everythings is pathetic.
 
justride said:

ELECTRIC BIKES VS ELECTRIC SCOOTERS – WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCe​

pedegoelectricbikes.ca

Electric Bikes Vs Electric Scooters – What's the Difference - Pedego Electric Bikes Canada

This article is all about explaining the vast differences between electric bikes vs electric scooters, aka "electric bicycles" and "ebikes" vs e-scooters.
pedegoelectricbikes.ca pedegoelectricbikes.ca
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As expected from a manufacturer. Outright lies to increase sales. "In most areas, a power assisted bicycle is able to be ridden anywhere a normal bicycle can". Wrong. Most bike trails/paths do not allow power assist. Only human power. E-bikes under power are mostly limited to on road with the cars.
 
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GreyGhost said:
Province allowed e-scooters if specifically adopted by municipality. Oshawa has adopted it. Many places (including Toronto) say they aren't going to. Lots of e-scooters in toronto are eligible for $6000 chat with officers for an unlicensed, uninsured motor vehicle. I don't think they realize the size of the hammer and think they are harmless fun.

EDIT:

RIP Kaitlyn Pollock. I didn't know her but stumbled across this.

www.gofundme.com

The Pollock Family, organized by Luchka Float

We are reaching out to you today to ask for your support for The Pollock family during this difficult … Luchka Float needs your support for The Pollock Family
www.gofundme.com
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Woman killed in Oshawa accident riding city e-scooter without helmet​

It was determined a black 2018 GMC Sierra was exiting a gas station on the southeast corner of the intersection when it struck the e-scooter which was riding on the sidewalk.

It's sad that the woman didn't survive her driving lesson. The more fortunate only have scrapes, bruises and broken metal parts.

If the collision happened on Harmony Road the truck driver had to be making a right turn because of a road divider. If the woman was headed south she could have been partially obscured to the truck driver by a hedge.

At walking speeds the driver may have had time to correct for a pedestrian but a scooter at 20 KPH pops up fast.

The problem with abnormal speeds is normal traffic has trouble correcting for the difference whether it's a vehicle doing 120 in a 40 zone or 40 in a 120 zone. Is this so hard to comprehend?

The City of Oshawa has lowered the bar by providing these toys to untrained riders, none of the gear all of the time.

From the Oshawa web site:

For e-scooter and e-bike users​

  • Riders must be 16 or older to use an e-scooter. Helmets are mandatory for riders under 18 years old. It is encouraged that all riders wear a helmet for their safety
  • Maximum speed limit is 20 km/hr
  • Only one rider per device is allowed. Anyone riding with a child as a passenger can receive a fine
  • Sidewalk riding is NOT allowed
  • Pedestrians first: Always yield to walkers. Slow down and leave space when passing people
  • Be considerate: Use your bell to alert others when passing pedestrians, on trails or in bicycle lanes
  • Park responsibly: Park in a secure, upright position
  • As per the Highway Traffic Act riders must not operate e-scooter while impaired
The rules are somewhat confusing. If the scoots aren't allowed on sidewalks there must be a lot of pedestrians walking on the roads.

FWIW: Bird scooters cost users $1.15 to unlock, then 40 cents per minute of use.

I wonder:

How do they stop the under 16 crowd from accessing the bikes?

I see layer upon layer of stupidity in this. The city approved the project. The woman ignored the legal regulations and flaunted the helmet caution. She either learned to be irresponsible or was taught by her parents. Let them bear the costs. I'm not go funding stupid people.
 
One down thousands to go

A man was charged with drunk driving on a mobility scooter.

A citizen called the OPP just after midnight on Jan. 7 to report a scooter being driven in Goderich by a man who had been drinking.

“Officers patrolled the area of the complaint and located the suspect driver a short time later,” police said, adding he had abandoned the scooter nearby.

“The driver displayed signs of impairment and was placed under arrest and taken into custody.”

Breath tests revealed he was over the legal limit. A Goderich man, 56, was charged with impaired driving.

“The Huron OPP would like to remind the public that motorized mobility scooters are defined as motor vehicles under the Criminal Code of Canada,” police said.
 
nobbie48 said:
One down thousands to go

A man was charged with drunk driving on a mobility scooter.

A citizen called the OPP just after midnight on Jan. 7 to report a scooter being driven in Goderich by a man who had been drinking.

“Officers patrolled the area of the complaint and located the suspect driver a short time later,” police said, adding he had abandoned the scooter nearby.

“The driver displayed signs of impairment and was placed under arrest and taken into custody.”

Breath tests revealed he was over the legal limit. A Goderich man, 56, was charged with impaired driving.

“The Huron OPP would like to remind the public that motorized mobility scooters are defined as motor vehicles under the Criminal Code of Canada,” police said.
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Like with sexual assault charges, I think there should be different degrees and penalties. Obviously I am anti-DUI but a person on a mobility scooter has a low chance of killing me. Giving them a criminal record for this seems very excessive to me.
 
justride said:
It would be a shame if some one who can not physically ride a bicycle without battery power are not allowed to enjoys the many trials with their friends and family
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Unfortunately for every one of those folks you get a dozen idiots blasting through the trails like hooligans. When was it ever any different?
 
GreyGhost said:
Like with sexual assault charges, I think there should be different degrees and penalties. Obviously I am anti-DUI but a person on a mobility scooter has a low chance of killing me. Giving them a criminal record for this seems very excessive to me.
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And a five figure legal tab to fight the charge. I'm OK with leniency as long as the scoot wasn't being used to get around a DUI suspended license.

Similarly, a guy that sleeps if off in the back seat of his car is still under care and control but shouldn't face the same charge as the one that drives home to sleep it off. Reward the show of responsibility.

Is public intoxication non criminal and a better option?

Sexual assault is different in that there is a potentially injured second party, even if it isn't outright rape.

In North America the accepted greeting is a handshake. Hugs and kisses are considered sexual assault if the recipient isn't amicable. Some people are extremely sensitive about who gets to touch them.

Sadly a teacher has to be careful about giving a hug to a sobbing tyke with a skinned knee.
 
nobbie48 said:
And a five figure legal tab to fight the charge. I'm OK with leniency as long as the scoot wasn't being used to get around a DUI suspended license.

Similarly, a guy that sleeps if off in the back seat of his car is still under care and control but shouldn't face the same charge as the one that drives home to sleep it off. Reward the show of responsibility.

Is public intoxication non criminal and a better option?

Sexual assault is different in that there is a potentially injured second party, even if it isn't outright rape.

In North America the accepted greeting is a handshake. Hugs and kisses are considered sexual assault if the recipient isn't amicable. Some people are extremely sensitive about who gets to touch them.

Sadly a teacher has to be careful about giving a hug to a sobbing tyke with a skinned knee.
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care and control is a $300 liquor offence not criminal or even HTA. know from experience

public intoxication, also a liquor offense, is an option. I got one of those in my truck in a parking lot after the bar in Whitby and have a friend who was pulled over and got charged with open alcohol in public.
 
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