No Motorcycles in Ontario HOV Lanes, but included in review | GTAMotorcycle.com

No Motorcycles in Ontario HOV Lanes, but included in review

TorontoBoy

Well-known member
Bob Nichols said:
“Allowing a single rider on a motorcycle to use an HOV lane does not support Ontario’s goal of moving more people in fewer vehicles, as it does not remove a vehicle from the road, unlike a commuter using a carpool or transit,” said Bob Nichols, Ontario Ministry of Transportation spokesman, in an e-mail...

But, the ministry is doing a review that “will include consideration of allowing single-occupant motorcycles on provincial HOV lanes,” Nichols said...
source

Not yet. You could email him. But this quote is interesting: Ontario highway HOV motorcycle access in return for ATGATT!!

Raynald Marchand said:
“They’d be moving instead of sitting there breathing fumes,” Marchand said. “But in return for using the HOV lane, we’d like to see a rule that they have to wear proper gear, instead of shorts and flip-flops, when they’re in it.”

Marchand said the proper gear rule shouldn’t be impossible to enforce, and it would throw a bone to drivers angry about hogs hogging the HOV lane.
 

48Connor

Well-known member
“They’d be moving instead of sitting there breathing fumes,” Marchand said. “But in return for using the HOV lane, we’d like to see a rule that they have to wear proper gear, instead of shorts and flip-flops, when they’re in it.”


So what if its 11pm and the highway is empty, and to pass a car you ride into the HOV lane in a t-shirt, you're going to get a $200 fine and 3 demerit points? Lol good luck with that. This will never pass.
 

-D-

Banned
I think they allow EV cars in the HOV...correct?
If so 1 person in an EV car which seats 4...uhm is the same as 1 bike and 1 rider.

Shift the conversation to SAFETY.

Kinda stupid they want to enforce gear, uhm so people in a convertible car should be wearing gear also?
Are running shoes ok?
Do jeans have to be marked and rated like helmets?
 

PrivatePilot

Ironus Butticus
Site Supporter
I think they allow EV cars in the HOV...correct?
If so 1 person in an EV car which seats 4...uhm is the same as 1 bike and 1 rider.
I was going to say that. My wifes new Volt that we are picking up tomorrow is eligible (and will be plated with) the Ontario green EV plates, and indeed IS eligible for the HOV lanes with only 1 occupant.

That argument is really weak.

 

Riceburner

Well-known member
1 rider on a bike takes up less room than 1 driver in an EV car. Save space, save on congestion.
 

-D-

Banned
1 rider on a bike takes up less room than 1 driver in an EV car. Save space, save on congestion.
that's not their argument...they are looking at moving volume/capacity per vehicle
I think it has to come back to the MOT manual for bikes telling you to stay in the SAFE areas/lanes.
Show the MTO they contradict themselves and putting bikers in danger.

I think if someone crafted a letter and direct it to the MTO AND Insurance companies you might see a change once you show the insurance companies the MTO is increasing RISK for them/customers.
 

nakkers

Well-known member
Site Supporter
It's been discussed in related threads. Motorcycles do not use less space. They require just as much of the road, if not more than 4 wheels.

Motorcycle may consume less fuel but, they typically produce more pollution.

So, an EV with one person has less impact on the environment. Motorcycles, not so much.

The argument about safety is a valid one. Just need a few more bodies to raise awareness and maybe it will get some traction. Not holding my breath.
 
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mbroyda

Well-known member
LMAO, there is no way they can enforce "proper gear", what does that even mean? Motorcycle jeans? 1pc leather suit? Icon vest? who determines what level of gear is proper, and how is it all standardized? all your gear must be DOT rated? or gonna leave that up to the cops and hope they are knowledgeable enough and honest enough??
 

matthew

Well-known member
Site Supporter
According to the HTA, the only proper gear required is a DOT helmet. Motorcyclists will never be allowed in the HOV lanes.
 

Jayv

Well-known member
Site Supporter
It's been discussed in related threads. Motorcycles do not use less space. They require just as much of the road, if not more than a 4 wheels .
You are looking at it wrong.

What is the end result of the commute/drive?

Motorcycle/scooters take up considerably less space when parking. Ideally one could argue less road damage, we are safer around bicycles and pedestrians. We don't text and drive, or ride drunk. Plus we can do wheelies!!
 

SVeezy

Well-known member
It's been discussed in related threads. Motorcycles do not use less space. They require just as much of the road, if not more than 4 wheels.

Motorcycle may consume less fuel but, they typically produce more pollution.

So, an EV with one person has less impact on the environment. Motorcycles, not so much.

The argument about safety is a valid one. Just need a few more bodies to raise awareness and maybe it will get some traction. Not holding my breath.

I could be wrong (and likely am, lol) but my understanding is that while motorcycles aren't held to the same emission standards as cars/trucks they still pollute less. That is to say four motorcycles of approximately 3000cc combined pollutes less than one car with a 3.0L and four occupants all else being equal.


Edit: Put another way, if the engines were on a stand and out of the vehicle the 3.0L car engine would pollute less than the combined output of the hypothetical four 750cc engines. However in real world use the motorcycles would typically produce less emission.
 
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油井緋色

Well-known member
Site Supporter
It's been discussed in related threads. Motorcycles do not use less space. They require just as much of the road, if not more than 4 wheels.
Pollution maybe. As for the highlighted part...were you dropped on the head as a child?

I could be wrong (and likely am, lol) but my understanding is that while motorcycles aren't held to the same emission standards as cars/trucks they still pollute less. That is to say four motorcycles of approximately 3000cc combined pollutes less than one car with a 3.0L and four occupants all else being equal.


Edit: Put another way, if the engines were on a stand and out of the vehicle the 3.0L car engine would pollute less than the combined output of the hypothetical four 750cc engines. However in real world use the motorcycles would typically produce less emission.
I wouldn't believe anything you read online. Unless somebody can link or attach a research article from a reputable scholarly institution, everyone is lying or playing "let the blind man lead". Emissions are objective.
 
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nakkers

Well-known member
Site Supporter
油井緋色;2487352 said:
Pollution maybe. As for the highlighted part...were you dropped on the head as a child?



.
In general terms, a motorcycle's physical size is smaller than 4 wheel vehicles.

However, motorcycles require just as much of the road to be operated safely. To stop or avoid a hazard, lane positioning etc. As an example.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

fastar1

Well-endowed member
Site Supporter
I could be wrong (and likely am, lol) but my understanding is that while motorcycles aren't held to the same emission standards as cars/trucks they still pollute less. That is to say four motorcycles of approximately 3000cc combined pollutes less than one car with a 3.0L and four occupants all else being equal.


Edit: Put another way, if the engines were on a stand and out of the vehicle the 3.0L car engine would pollute less than the combined output of the hypothetical four 750cc engines. However in real world use the motorcycles would typically produce less emission.
No. a motorcycle will typically pollute more than a car regardless of engine size. Even 50cc bike vs. 5000cc car. Because the bike has no emissions control equipment.

The one exception is CO2, which will be lower on the bike. Comparative CO2 emissions are pretty much equivalent to fuel efficiency for all gasoline vehicles, so bikes will usually emit less CO2.
 

jc100

Well-known member
No. a motorcycle will typically pollute more than a car regardless of engine size. Even 50cc bike vs. 5000cc car. Because the bike has no emissions control equipment.

The one exception is CO2, which will be lower on the bike. Comparative CO2 emissions are pretty much equivalent to fuel efficiency for all gasoline vehicles, so bikes will usually emit less CO2.
Nearly every bike forum I've ever visited has a number of threads about "drilling the cat" or removal of the catalytic converter to add a slip on or full system and/or removal of evaporative emissions equipment. None of that really helps with the emissions argument either.
 

GreyGhost

Well-known member
Site Supporter
油井緋色;2487352 said:
Pollution maybe. As for the highlighted part...were you dropped on the head as a child?.
In general terms, a motorcycle's physical size is smaller than 4 wheel vehicles.

However, motorcycles require just as much of the road to be operated safely. To stop or avoid a hazard, lane positioning etc. As an example. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Assuming it is a single motorcycle, not a group riding staggered (which is a likely scenario for most commuting times as it's hard to build a group when trapped in a lane where you can't pass) and assuming that a typical motorcycle is ~7' long and a typical passenger vehicle is ~15' long and using a reasonable 2 second following distance, the motorcycle takes up ~57m, the car takes up ~59m of road, so ~4% less space. Negligible, not worth talking about.

Letting self-driving vehicles use the HOV lanes with a special protocol that dropped following distances to ~0.5 second would fit a lot more vehicles into the same road (~18m per vehicle).
 

Hack

Well-known member
HOV lanes are a ridiculous idea.
Nothing more than a liberal minded social engineering feel good endeavor.
Environmentally we'd be better off to just let everyone use that extra lane instead of just a few cars while many more cars creep along in the other lanes.
HOV is just a waste of pavement
 

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